Have you ever had a year like this?

[Misfit74]

In football, success is about winning. Anything that undermines the value of WINS I'm against. If a 7-6 team got a higher seed over my 8-5 team regarless of points scored (or H2H record, for that matter) something would be terribly wrong w/ the system. Wins are what should matter the most. That's how champions are crowned. That's how success is determined.

So what if a team scores 500 points in an NFL season if they go 4-12? They 2007 Patriots did not get home field advantage throughout the playoffs and a first round bye because they broke offensive scoring records: it was because of WINS. The 2000 Ravens scored the 14th-most points in the NFL that year and won the Super Bowl. The 49ers and Jaguars both scored more points than the Ravens that year and both teams missed the playoffs entirely.

[Phish Brigade]

I'm still hangin with the lung on this debate.. jimmo too.

But that's only because I firmly believe that the best teams score the most points. The NFL schedule doesn't care who your opponent is in any given week. And especially with the heavy bye weeks we now have, it's conceivable that your opponent is at full strength in the 2 or 3 weeks when you're really not. A couple of bad breaks and all of a sudden you're flirting with a .500 record.

I don't think anyone will argue with the fact that H2H is the most common format. Most people like the idea of playing against another owner and having it mean something. Trash talk, rivalries etc...

But the truth is: the best team scores the most points week in and week out. If you are consistent, you should have a very good record and make the playoffs. Obviously, it doesn't always work that way. And if you get 90%+ of your teams potential points into your starting lineup every week, you finish in the top 3 overall in points and yet you still don't make the playoffs? Is that the best way to play?

Not finishing in the money because of how the NFL schedule matched up with your teams fantasy schedule isn't fun. Add in the bye weeks, injuries and the matchups that your opponents team had week in and week out... and you end up with a valid argument that a lot of luck is involved in the H2H format. You can play the same 11 teams in different weeks, and potentially end up 10-1 or 2-9... it happens.

In the NFL, teams put together a game plan for their weekly opponents. But you can't do that in regular fantasy leagues. You can't shut down your opponents TE. All you can do is put together your best lineup based on the matchups and what you know. I understand why people want the fantasy leagues they play in to mirror what happens in the NFL. But, in my opinion... it doesn't make sense to in every aspect. That's why we call it fantasy football.

Never bench your studs. We've all heard it before. Sometimes we will bench our WR2 for our WR4... but that's about as far as you can go with your "game plan". Yes there is skill involved in success, but you won't get me to admit that luck and the schedule doesn't play a huge role in any teams success in H2H format. That's why I prefer leagues where everyone plays each other once. ( 14 team leagues )

Why do we talk about SOS for fantasy purposes? It's quite possibly the most important aspect of your lineup decisions during the year. For example:

Q: "Who should I start?"
A: " I'd go with _______ because he's playing against the Browns "

I don't know how anyone can argue how much luck plays a role in fantasy leagues. My keeper league is going to have a lot of changes next year. I'll be proposing the VP format as one of many.

Edit: Ok, I admit. The 10-1 vs 2-9 thing was a stretch.

[princevincexoxo]

But the truth is: the best team scores the most points week in and week out. If you are consistent, you should have a very good record and make the playoffs. Obviously, it doesn't always work that way. And if you get 90%+ of your teams potential points into your starting lineup every week, you finish in the top 3 overall in points and yet you still don't make the playoffs? Is that the best way to play?

Generally people dont have a 90% efficiency rate, so your example doesnt happen consistently enough to give your opinion of victory points over H2H much weight. Look back at all your leagues when you get a chance and show me 1) how many teams have a 90% efficiency rating, and if you dont use MFL then find out 2) how many top scoring teams CONSISTENTLY (at least 9-10 of 12 weeks) played 90+ % of their teams potential points and DIDNT make the playoffs....because as of now hanging your hat on this point is weak, and doesnt come into play but occasionally.

[Phish Brigade]

This is from my 14 team money/IDP league. We only use 22 man rosters, so 90% isn't uncommon. I can't think of a year where I didn't have 89-90%+

1625.81 1842.52 88.2%
1697.34 1901.86 89.2%
1512.47 1755.59 86.2%
1497.34 1810.14 82.7%
1474.74 1607.30 91.8%
1561.04 1681.21 92.9%
1537.90 1701.39 90.4%
1533.58 1833.61 83.6%
1499.39 1776.96 84.4%
1395.47 1568.56 89.0%
1420.30 1558.27 91.1%
1474.60 1613.82 91.4%
1383.32 1498.88 92.3%
1211.10 1419.23 85.3%

In a league with 45+ man rosters ( IDP )... I'd drop the figure to about 80% as a good starting point for successful teams. I realize that most of the members here are playing in dynasty leagues with more than 22 roster spots, I just used 90% because it was a high number that actually is attainable depending on your league.

[Phish Brigade]

This is from one of my dynasty leagues, 52 man rosters. My team is in my signature. I finished with a 11-2 record and my stats are on the top line. I finished #2 in total points by less than 20. But I also had the high score more than anyone else... 5 times in total.

2993.62 3677.22 81.4%
3010.80 3793.26 79.4%
2854.56 3418.42 83.5%
2800.14 3404.96 82.2%
2799.26 3666.92 76.3%
2779.82 3412.94 81.4%
2715.20 3451.46 78.7%
2440.24 3009.46 81.1%
2606.90 3117.72 83.6%
2604.86 3329.06 78.2%
2571.32 3300.48 77.9%
2249.18 2853.42 78.8%

Edit: Oops... I don't have my team posted in my signature anymore.

SJax, JStew, Colston, Welker, Miles Austin, Gonzo, McNabb and Hasselbeck have been my "every week" players. You'll notice that I don't have Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Fitz or Reggie Wayne.

[princevincexoxo]

This is from one of my dynasty leagues, 52 man rosters. My team is in my signature. I finished with a 11-2 record and my stats are on the top line. I finished #2 in total points by less than 20. But I also had the high score more than anyone else... 5 times in total.

2993.62 3677.22 81.4%
3010.80 3793.26 79.4%
2854.56 3418.42 83.5%
2800.14 3404.96 82.2%
2799.26 3666.92 76.3%
2779.82 3412.94 81.4%
2715.20 3451.46 78.7%
2440.24 3009.46 81.1%
2606.90 3117.72 83.6%
2604.86 3329.06 78.2%
2571.32 3300.48 77.9%
2249.18 2853.42 78.8%

Edit: Oops... I don't have my team posted in my signature anymore.

SJax, JStew, Colston, Welker, Miles Austin, Gonzo, McNabb and Hasselbeck have been my "every week" players. You'll notice that I don't have Ray Rice, Chris Johnson, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Fitz or Reggie Wayne.

Ok so your efficiency rating was among the top half of the league....BUT YOU MADE THE PLAYOFFS....show me a team with high efficiency, high scoring, and NO PLAYOFFS....

[Phish Brigade]

Ok so your efficiency rating was among the top half of the league....BUT YOU MADE THE PLAYOFFS....show me a team with high efficiency, high scoring, and NO PLAYOFFS....

Unfortunately, my money league was the only league I was in that used MFL before this season. So I don't have a lot of historical data that I can post. All I can say is, it's pretty rare that a stud team misses the playoffs. But it does happen. I've seen it on several occasions. In the GD3, Steve has the highest scoring team. But he's going into the playoffs as the #5 seed. He was tied with 3 other teams with a 7-6 record. Had he lost one more game... he would have missed the playoffs. And that would have been unthinkable if you saw his team. It's posted in the GridIron forum.

This is from my money league from a couple of years ago.

1661.22 1818.00 91.4%
1583.41 1821.73 86.9%
1483.89 1647.72 90.1%
1462.01 1705.58 85.7%
1674.77 1799.70 93.1%
1492.57 1604.63 93.0%
1595.25 1740.30 91.7%
1569.43 1759.41 89.2%
1416.88 1622.74 87.3%
1379.29 1628.61 84.7%
1387.22 1615.11 85.9%
1307.13 1485.59 88.0%
1260.61 1349.49 93.4%
1269.16 1452.54 87.4%

My team is in bold. Not an extreme example like Kris', but still. My money league really isn't the best example for this debate anyway. I'll admit that. It still doesn't change my thoughts on H2H vs total points/VP format though. Only because I've seen it happen in other leagues that aren't on MFL.

This was a couple of years ago. I was 5th in points ( 26 points behind the 3rd highest ), 7th in efficiency rating ( 6th if you exclude the lowest scoring team who barely had any other options to start each week ) and in our 14 team IDP league... 8 teams make the playoffs... and I wasn't one of them. DOH! There were two teams that put up a lot of points, but the next 4 or 5 were pretty close after 13 weeks.

It's worth mentioning that our scoring system is pretty different than the most leagues. The highlights/major differences:

No PPR, passing TDs 6 points, return yards count, yardage on fumble returns and picks count the same as rushing and receiving yardage respectively.

I only mention it because that kind of scoring system has an impact on the power rankings/efficiency ratings. So when Darren Sharper returns 2 picks for TDs that are 80-90 yards... that play scores more points than a pick 6 for 5 yards. Leaving the wrong QB on the bench can have a much bigger impact than it does in leagues were passing TDs are 4 points... at least in the power rankings.

[princevincexoxo]

Ok so your efficiency rating was among the top half of the league....BUT YOU MADE THE PLAYOFFS....show me a team with high efficiency, high scoring, and NO PLAYOFFS....

Unfortunately, my money league was the only league I was in that used MFL before this season. So I don't have a lot of historical data that I can post. All I can say is, it's pretty rare that a stud team misses the playoffs. But it does happen.

your right it does happen....but not as often, and to the extent to have an overwhelming preference towards a system that addresses the subtle flaws of H2H's, yet has other much bigger, and more fundamental flaws. Thats all I am saying.

[Phish Brigade]

I'm gonna take lung's approach and bow out. He's said everything better than I have anyway... I'm just long winded.

Some people have had horrible luck and missed the playoffs with great teams, and some haven't. In conclusion, it's pretty rare.. but apparently there is a way to prevent that frustration. The funny thing is, I've heard of victory points before. I just never really looked into it.

[kris_kapsner]

I have an 89.1% efficiency rate for my team. My play all record is currently 171-24. But, my head to head record is 7-6.



I think it's hilarious.

So, what does that mean? We've played 13 weeks and I've only been out scored 24 times. That means that less that 2 of 15 teams out scored me per week! Wow! How the heck do I have that record?!



I still love head to head deciding who should go to the play offs. That's how the NFL does it. That's how every sport does it. That's how our fantasy sports should do it since I thought the idea was to emulate the feeling of owning a team.

Perhaps your victory points idea would be better for a fantasy figure skating league.

I'm just kidding. To each their own.

I can see how some people might like the victory points idea. It just doesn't suit the taste I have for head to head good old fashioned wins and losses.

[princevincexoxo]

I have an 89.1% efficiency rate for my team. My play all record is currently 171-24. But, my head to head record is 7-6.



I think it's hilarious.

So, what does that mean? We've played 13 weeks and I've only been out scored 24 times. That means that less that 2 of 15 teams out scored me per week! Wow! How the heck do I have that record?!



I still love head to head deciding who should go to the play offs. That's how the NFL does it. That's how every sport does it. That's how our fantasy sports should do it since I thought the idea was to emulate the feeling of owning a team.

Perhaps your victory points idea would be better for a fantasy figure skating league.

I'm just kidding. To each their own.

I can see how some people might like the victory points idea. It just doesn't suit the taste I have for head to head good old fashioned wins and losses.

I like the victory points idea...just not as a better idea than H2H...both have their flaws and strengths...to each's own preference.