It is Mark Ingram Time - Back Home to NO

[smudga55]

Ingram also slimmed down and it has worked wonders for him. Just like it did for Bell.

.......and just like T Rich needs.......

[Jfever]

I just spent 10 days visiting the French quarter area of New Orleans. Definitely something to see. Had a lot of fun and it is a beautiful beautiful and very fun place to visit!!! I'd recommend putting it on your bucket list... The big easy really isn't known for it's level of education however.

Insinuating that a professional athlete is going to "start" to try now because it is a contract year - is a very simple way to break this down.

Ingram has improved and is benefiting for several reasons. And to the trained eye, it is quite simple to diagnose.

1. Opportunity has increased
2. Faith from the coaching staff in him seems to have improved.
2. He has been more healthy and more durable than in the past.
3. Blocking scheme has changed to better parallel his abilities (ya know the ones he used in Bama)
4. He has learned something by being in the NFL for 4 seasons. (remember - he is 24 years old) With experience comes knowledge.

Side note. Richardson is not void of talent for the record. He has been far less than what we thought he'd be. Part of that is on the expectations that were placed on him too early. He is a back that needs a certain scheme. He is a punisher and more of a bruiser, not a creative runner. He is kind of a throw back rb in a league that today isn't using that style of rb near as much as it used to. He needs a few road grader o-lineman to open things up for him. It is clear to me when I watch him play that he doesn't fit the Indi scheme too well. Also, it seems to me that Trich doesn't put the effort in that I think he could. I believe they know that and are going to move on from Trent. Someone will pick him up and he will eventually maybe will establish some credibility. Somewhere. How long and just how much productivity, and for how long are the questions. He'll just never live up to the lofty expectations and because of that, he'll always be thought of as a disappointment, some of which is earned and deserved. In that regard - Ingram does have something in common with Richardson. - the too lofty of expectations that we put on them.

[dirtyharris]

Again, I am looking at his past history. In 2011, Ingram averaged 3.88 ypc. In 2012, he averaged 3.86 ypc. In an injury shortened 2013 season, he averaged 4.88 ypc. Looks great unless you subtract a huge 14 carry, 145 yard game vs Dallas. Take that out and he averaged 3.63 ypc. He also has a total of 36 carreer receptions (9 per season). With an entire season less than Ingram, Richardson has 96 receptions (32 per season).

Richardson averaged 3.56 and 3.55 in 2012 and 2013 respectively, roughly 1 foot per carry less than Ingram. So yeah, I'm comparing Ingram to Richardson.

I think what Ingram has figured out is that he's in the final year of his contract and he better put out some effort if he wants to get paid.

Yeah because numbers never lie! They always tell the whole story! Lol! What a joke. Once again, Ingram appears to have figured it out, but even if you just watched the two of them you can SEE a big difference.

Actually, in Fantasy Football, numbers never do lie. They do always tell the whole story. And no, it's not a joke. On Tuesday morning, do you look at whether your guys played harder than the other guys, or whether they scored more points? Fantasy football is all about numbers. I don't care how hard a player plays, how shifty or elusive he is, or even how much he tries. When it comes to the guys on my fantasy team, all I care about are what kind of numbers they produce. The goal in fantasy football is to build a team whose guys put up more yards and score more touchdowns than the other guys. There are no "A for Efforts" in any league I play in. Results are all that matter, and results are measured in numbers.

[dirtyharris]

I just spent 10 days visiting the French quarter area of New Orleans. Definitely something to see. Had a lot of fun and it is a beautiful beautiful and very fun place to visit!!! I'd recommend putting it on your bucket list... The big easy really isn't known for it's level of education however.

Insinuating that a professional athlete is going to "start" to try now because it is a contract year - is a very simple way to break this down.

Ingram has improved and is benefiting for several reasons. And to the trained eye, it is quite simple to diagnose.

1. Opportunity has increased
2. Faith from the coaching staff in him seems to have improved.
2. He has been more healthy and more durable than in the past.
3. Blocking scheme has changed to better parallel his abilities (ya know the ones he used in Bama)
4. He has learned something by being in the NFL for 4 seasons. (remember - he is 24 years old) With experience comes knowledge.

Side note. Richardson is not void of talent for the record. He has been far less than what we thought he'd be. Part of that is on the expectations that were placed on him too early. He is a back that needs a certain scheme. He is a punisher and more of a bruiser, not a creative runner. He is kind of a throw back rb in a league that today isn't using that style of rb near as much as it used to. He needs a few road grader o-lineman to open things up for him. It is clear to me when I watch him play that he doesn't fit the Indi scheme too well. Also, it seems to me that Trich doesn't put the effort in that I think he could. I believe they know that and are going to move on from Trent. Someone will pick him up and he will eventually maybe will establish some credibility. Somewhere. How long and just how much productivity, and for how long are the questions. He'll just never live up to the lofty expectations and because of that, he'll always be thought of as a disappointment, some of which is earned and deserved. In that regard - Ingram does have something in common with Richardson. - the too lofty of expectations that we put on them.

Actually, I don't live in New Orleans. Never have. Thank you though for insulting what you perceive to be my educational level. I guess you're going to talk about my Mom next? Anyway, at least my college learned this here igorant Louisiana moron enough to be able to count from 1 to 5 when making a list.

[kmbryant09]

Again, I am looking at his past history. In 2011, Ingram averaged 3.88 ypc. In 2012, he averaged 3.86 ypc. In an injury shortened 2013 season, he averaged 4.88 ypc. Looks great unless you subtract a huge 14 carry, 145 yard game vs Dallas. Take that out and he averaged 3.63 ypc. He also has a total of 36 carreer receptions (9 per season). With an entire season less than Ingram, Richardson has 96 receptions (32 per season).

Richardson averaged 3.56 and 3.55 in 2012 and 2013 respectively, roughly 1 foot per carry less than Ingram. So yeah, I'm comparing Ingram to Richardson.

I think what Ingram has figured out is that he's in the final year of his contract and he better put out some effort if he wants to get paid.

Yeah because numbers never lie! They always tell the whole story! Lol! What a joke. Once again, Ingram appears to have figured it out, but even if you just watched the two of them you can SEE a big difference.

Actually, in Fantasy Football, numbers never do lie. They do always tell the whole story. And no, it's not a joke. On Tuesday morning, do you look at whether your guys played harder than the other guys, or whether they scored more points? Fantasy football is all about numbers. I don't care how hard a player plays, how shifty or elusive he is, or even how much he tries. When it comes to the guys on my fantasy team, all I care about are what kind of numbers they produce. The goal in fantasy football is to build a team whose guys put up more yards and score more touchdowns than the other guys. There are no "A for Efforts" in any league I play in. Results are all that matter, and results are measured in numbers.

So you're picking up and starting Ryan Fitzpatrick in every league this week, right?

[dlf_jules]

Actually, in Fantasy Football, numbers never do lie. They do always tell the whole story. And no, it's not a joke. On Tuesday morning, do you look at whether your guys played harder than the other guys, or whether they scored more points? Fantasy football is all about numbers. I don't care how hard a player plays, how shifty or elusive he is, or even how much he tries. When it comes to the guys on my fantasy team, all I care about are what kind of numbers they produce. The goal in fantasy football is to build a team whose guys put up more yards and score more touchdowns than the other guys. There are no "A for Efforts" in any league I play in. Results are all that matter, and results are measured in numbers.

So you're picking up and starting Ryan Fitzpatrick in every league this week, right?

Obviously not. Only numbers from two years ago count.

[dlf_jules]

I just spent 10 days visiting the French quarter area of New Orleans. Definitely something to see. Had a lot of fun and it is a beautiful beautiful and very fun place to visit!!! I'd recommend putting it on your bucket list... The big easy really isn't known for it's level of education however.

Actually, I don't live in New Orleans. Never have. Thank you though for insulting what you perceive to be my educational level. I guess you're going to talk about my Mom next? Anyway, at least my college learned this here ignorant Louisiana moron enough to be able to count from 1 to 5 when making a list.

Yeah, the comment about New Orleans and education was unnecessary.

However, I do think the "contract year" argument is too simple and probably wrong. First, last year was like a contract year too -- Ingram could have earned a one-year, $5.2 million extension had he performed better in 2013. Second, There are good explanations (outlined above) for Ingram's improvement that have nothing to do with his contract. Third, there's pretty decent evidence that the contract year theory is hogwash.

[Rye300]

Actually, in Fantasy Football, numbers never do lie. They do always tell the whole story. And no, it's not a joke. On Tuesday morning, do you look at whether your guys played harder than the other guys, or whether they scored more points? Fantasy football is all about numbers. I don't care how hard a player plays, how shifty or elusive he is, or even how much he tries. When it comes to the guys on my fantasy team, all I care about are what kind of numbers they produce. The goal in fantasy football is to build a team whose guys put up more yards and score more touchdowns than the other guys. There are no "A for Efforts" in any league I play in. Results are all that matter, and results are measured in numbers.

This is looking at it the wrong way. The numbers only tell the story of what has happened and are not a predictor of future production. When you watch the games you can see how they play and how they could be better against a different opponent. Numbers will only show what has happened, nothing more nothing less.

[Jfever]

It was meant tongue in cheek. Not to be taken overly serious. Based on truth however. Look it up. Apologies if I offended as I wasn't trying to be rude or argumentative and I sincerely hope that wasn't the only point you took from my post. tough to communicate a little sarcasm via a written / typed post. Anyway, Point was - the situation of Ingram isn't anywhere near as simple as explained or hinted at and really has much less to do about the contract thing than it has to do with several other factors that were not brought up. The list 1-5 thing in your response was funny though.

Got me.

[dm1129]

The idea that some owners still believe we are seeing Mark Ingram 2.0("he just gets it" , he is slimmer and quicker, he runs harder, etc..)is puzzling to me. I argued earlier in the year after the Green Bay game, that Ingram was a sell high. Since that game, Ingram has averaged 3.82 ypc, which is almost identical to his performance over his first three seasons. What has been different is his usage. He essentially has doubled his touches/game. Khiry Robinson is reportedly near returning, so don't be surprised if Ingram's numbers drop as the season comes to a close.

[Jfever]

I don't think it is near that simple dm1129. More to it than you think maybe? I think so anyway. I'm sure by just watching Ingram you would see that he is and has been more effective. Dating back to late last year as well as the way he was playing this preseason - he has looked as if he was playing faster than earlier in his career. More decisive Yes, you are right his involvement has increased due to several reasons - the letting go of Sproles, P.Thomas's injury as well as Cooks and K.Robinson etc all contribute.

[dlf_jules]

The idea that some owners still believe we are seeing Mark Ingram 2.0("he just gets it" , he is slimmer and quicker, he runs harder, etc..)is puzzling to me. I argued earlier in the year after the Green Bay game, that Ingram was a sell high. Since that game, Ingram has averaged 3.82 ypc, which is almost identical to his performance over his first three seasons. What has been different is his usage. He essentially has doubled his touches/game. Khiry Robinson is reportedly near returning, so don't be surprised if Ingram's numbers drop as the season comes to a close.

Wow, that's some selective sampling. Here's a list of several more relevant YPC numbers that you could hove chosen:

• Career (2011-2014) YPC = 4.2
  2011-2013 YPC = 4.1
  2013-2014 YPC = 4.6
  2014 YPC = 4.5
  2014 YPC (excluding Green Bay game) = 4.0

I can't help but observe that they're all notably better than the 3.82 you listed. Do you think a player's five most recent games are a better indicator of future performance than his career/most recent season/most recent two seasons?

[dirtyharris]

Guys, I'm not trying to be a troll or anything. I'm new to this board and still getting a feel for it. I don't know any of the posters here and whose opinion is taken as Gospel and who is considered an idiot, although I have a feeling I am at this point. The OP asked for an opinion on Ingram, and I gave mine. I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised at how quickly the vitriol escalated and what almost seemed like personal attacks started occuring, but hey, whatever. You have your opinion, I have mine. I happen to agree with dm1129. I just don't see it. Ingram is what he is. If he goes to some run first team to be their 3 down bell cow, I may change my opinion. I don't see that happening however. Let's see how much intrest he generates on the free agent market this offseason. I'm thinking it won't be a whole lot.

To kmbryant09, no, I am not going to pick up Fitzpatrick and start him every week. That would be stupid. Last week was a very small sample size. If I did try that, I would be publicly chastised by the other members of my league for tanking.

To Jules, it's not the numbers from 2 years ago that count. It's the totality of the numbers over the past 2 years that do. Those are not very good. Regarding Ingrams numbers,

2011, 122 carries for 474 yards, 3.88 ypc
2012, 146 carries for 563 yards, 3.86 ypc
2013, 75 carries for 366 yards, 4.88 ypc. As I said earlier, 145 of those yards came in 1 game, week 10 vs Dallas. He got them on 14 carries. Take out that 1 game and he had 3.62 ypc
2014, 172 carries for 767 yards, 4.46 ypc

I agree with you Jules. The last 5 games are not as good of an indicator as the totality of his carreer stats so far.

[Rosenbluu]

If I owned Ingram anywhere and could get a first for him I'd definitely sell him

[Jfever]

Rosenbluu,

I agree with you and I too would consider moving Ingram for a late 1st. Why? Because in reality, he has just as many questions and risk as a mid to late first round rookie would have. Depending on team and need, I'd consider moving him for an early 2nd round pick. I just doubt there are too many buyers. I think it safe to say there are more Ingram sellers than buyers right now. Most that own him likely will be holding. Not because the want to, but because they are likely getting offers that don't make it a slam dunk deal. Might as well wait and see if the offers one is getting are less than attractive. I likely wouldn't sell him for less than an early 2nd though as after that early to mid 2nd - the risk for a rookie missing completely just skyrockets imo.

Dirtyharris,

I meant no personal offense by my response earlier. Just trying to prove a point that I don't think it is that simple as a contract issue and Ingram all of the sudden trying harder than he did all the while.

However, you may be right in your view and time will tell. It is ok to disagree on players. It is exactly why this pastime is fun and intriguing. I don't think you are an idiot either. It just seemed to me your view on Ingram was overly simplified to the point that it was just too simple and it missed too much. You should be the judge as to whose opinion you take and accept and or who's opinion you ignore. Time will allow you to sort those things out. I totally forgot my manors and forgot to welcome you to the forum. I apologize. I was a bit busy with several irons in the fire earlier. Sorry. I think you'll find these forums to be loaded with opinion, very informative, and sometimes quite entertaining. Sometimes things get a little fired up - but most often they are light, semi humorous, and imo, educational and informative.

Peace.