Tanking?

[MacDaddy123]

Now I get it I'm an old head that started playing before there even were servers to calculate stats but if your server doesn't offer Max Pts option then just calculate them yourselves.

We did it for probably over 12 years. Lot more work sure but absolutely gets rid of the blatant tanking. Guys will still find a way to do low key tanking (which some call a strategy) by fielding an obvious intentionally weaker roster. But that lack of depth usually comes back to bite them even if they do get a Saquon or Bijan stud.

Yes, Max PF will make things more interesting for sure.
A team in one of my league sold JT, Dalton Schultz (TEP League) ,and DeAndre Hopkins all relatively cheaply in order to get their points off his roster, so he had a better shot at the 1.01 and Bijan.

Unfortunately for him, he may have waited one week to long to sell, as he didn't get 1.01, he got 1.02.

So with Max PF, the only way to tank is to trade top scorers off your roster, and your point about fielding a weaker roster is on point.

[Two Cents]

This is such a tired subject

¢¢

[cazzie33]

This is such a tired subject

Thanks for adding your Two Cents comment

[Two Cents]

This is such a tired subject

Thanks for adding your Two Cents comment

Do you disagree?

This is the post the thread started with (has since been deleted)

So I’m in a league with a pretty unique situation. Two 1 win teams are squaring off in the finale. So the loser is rewarded with 1.01, and therefore, riches. One team has no incentive to tank because he previously traded the pick…so he’s playing his best players. The other has every incentive to tank, and he has filled his roster but he is currently starting a questionable David Bell over a health Terrace Marshall. Is this enough to call point shaving?

I love discussion. In my mind though there’s a certain point where this subject does not often wield any new or valuable information. I personally don’t believe the OP requires the 4 pages of dialogue it has received. I ultimately think this topic would be better off all in a single pinned thread at the top of the commish corner section instead of being recycled multiple times in this general chat section. That’s all.

¢¢

[YouMightDieTryin]

Scrolls mouse over to "Mark as Read". Clicks.

ymdt

[Kcarr]

Smith benched for Tonyan is the official decision being voted on by the league. This is the second offense, which results in a docking of the second round pick.

(also Nico Collins, Isaiah McKenzie, and Taysom Hill were in his lineup, too, but Tonyan was the most egregious)

Ask me how I know lol

This is correct.

Context is important though. 4 weeks ago, the second to last place team started messaging the "silent co-commish" messages about me starting Andy Dalton over Dak Prescott, which I had done in another league. This was certainly within my rights to choose a QB based on matchup. The "silent co-commish" posted a message on the league chat accusing me of cheating stating that this impacted the outcome of the game (Dalton over Prescott), trying to dock my second round pick. It did not. I explained that the differential was something like 7 pts and I lost by like 20+. It wasn't even close. This became a witchhunt on the message board with people calling me a scumbag blah blah. Obviously, I did not take this well as a newcomer who knows no one in this league.

The next week comes and the second to last place team plays me. I was watching his lineup closely given everything that had happened (usually people accuse you of what they are doing). I noted to the commissioner that he had left Kenneth Walker out of his lineup a handful of times in previous weeks (and had him out then), picked up the Raiders D directly after Blake Martinez announced his retirement to play against me (lol). This guy starts Nyheim Hines and Noah Brown with Gallup back in the lineup. Hines has scored 2 pts or less for 6 consecutive weeks in this man's starting rotation (on a 5% snap share), which is admittedly horrible intentionally. This second to worst team started at least one player with 2pts or less every week except 1. Most weeks there are multiple 0s-1s. As a new person in this league, I brought this to the commissioner and posted it all over the message board. If there is tanking going on, this surely is it. The explanation I was given is that this was within his rights to play - and this guy ends up beating me by less than 10 pts due to the commish allowing him to start Brown and Hines. The guys he could have played were Duvernay and Mack Hollins and, while they are no means world beaters, at least they play higher than a 10% snap share. And I was told - as an example - that a two TE lineup with Tonyan and Taysom Hill was perfectly acceptable. Two weeks later I am being zinged for it. I thought nothing of taking Smith out of the lineup in a week where I did not like his prospects. I showed in another league that I also benched Smith. Obviously is starting Tonyan over Smith ideal? I would say no, but I did not like Smith's potential that week and thought I could justify it. But, grounds for taking a 2nd round pick?

Every week, the co-commish has sent me egregious trades (Michael Gallup for AJ Dillon being one), and these messages came directly after I said that this offer was terrible. At the time, I was confused and unaware that this silent co-commish was a commish (but I was told this when I first signed up in the league it just wasn't obvious). Every week, I have dealt with lineup scrutiny - that Nico Collins after receiving 10 targets the week before is not startable because Smith is a "stud". When they couldn't justify that, Tonyan became the target. This has been exhausting and kind of took the fun out of it for me.

There's no rational argument for Tonyan over Smith, and you know that, and you're continuing a very consistent trend of pointing fingers towards any- and everyone that's not you.

Again, if there's an issue with another team's lineup moves, bring it to the league for us to formally discuss (as you've been invited to do), and we can conduct a proper review of the decisions in question. Their infractions don't erase your own, though.

We've never docked a pick in 9 years of doing this league, but no one has actually set intentionally bad lineups for the 1.01.

What week of the season was it because Tongan outscored Smith weeks 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 even without any TE premium. Anywhere there or even a couple weeks after I could easily see starting Tongan based on matchup not being out of the realm of what someone might think was acceptable

[cazzie33]

This is correct.

Context is important though. 4 weeks ago, the second to last place team started messaging the "silent co-commish" messages about me starting Andy Dalton over Dak Prescott, which I had done in another league. This was certainly within my rights to choose a QB based on matchup. The "silent co-commish" posted a message on the league chat accusing me of cheating stating that this impacted the outcome of the game (Dalton over Prescott), trying to dock my second round pick. It did not. I explained that the differential was something like 7 pts and I lost by like 20+. It wasn't even close. This became a witchhunt on the message board with people calling me a scumbag blah blah. Obviously, I did not take this well as a newcomer who knows no one in this league.

The next week comes and the second to last place team plays me. I was watching his lineup closely given everything that had happened (usually people accuse you of what they are doing). I noted to the commissioner that he had left Kenneth Walker out of his lineup a handful of times in previous weeks (and had him out then), picked up the Raiders D directly after Blake Martinez announced his retirement to play against me (lol). This guy starts Nyheim Hines and Noah Brown with Gallup back in the lineup. Hines has scored 2 pts or less for 6 consecutive weeks in this man's starting rotation (on a 5% snap share), which is admittedly horrible intentionally. This second to worst team started at least one player with 2pts or less every week except 1. Most weeks there are multiple 0s-1s. As a new person in this league, I brought this to the commissioner and posted it all over the message board. If there is tanking going on, this surely is it. The explanation I was given is that this was within his rights to play - and this guy ends up beating me by less than 10 pts due to the commish allowing him to start Brown and Hines. The guys he could have played were Duvernay and Mack Hollins and, while they are no means world beaters, at least they play higher than a 10% snap share. And I was told - as an example - that a two TE lineup with Tonyan and Taysom Hill was perfectly acceptable. Two weeks later I am being zinged for it. I thought nothing of taking Smith out of the lineup in a week where I did not like his prospects. I showed in another league that I also benched Smith. Obviously is starting Tonyan over Smith ideal? I would say no, but I did not like Smith's potential that week and thought I could justify it. But, grounds for taking a 2nd round pick?

Every week, the co-commish has sent me egregious trades (Michael Gallup for AJ Dillon being one), and these messages came directly after I said that this offer was terrible. At the time, I was confused and unaware that this silent co-commish was a commish (but I was told this when I first signed up in the league it just wasn't obvious). Every week, I have dealt with lineup scrutiny - that Nico Collins after receiving 10 targets the week before is not startable because Smith is a "stud". When they couldn't justify that, Tonyan became the target. This has been exhausting and kind of took the fun out of it for me.

There's no rational argument for Tonyan over Smith, and you know that, and you're continuing a very consistent trend of pointing fingers towards any- and everyone that's not you.

Again, if there's an issue with another team's lineup moves, bring it to the league for us to formally discuss (as you've been invited to do), and we can conduct a proper review of the decisions in question. Their infractions don't erase your own, though.

We've never docked a pick in 9 years of doing this league, but no one has actually set intentionally bad lineups for the 1.01.

What week of the season was it because Tongan outscored Smith weeks 1, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 even without any TE premium. Anywhere there or even a couple weeks after I could easily see starting Tongan based on matchup not being out of the realm of what someone might think was acceptable

Damn you, don't bring facts into an opinion based debate

[bjd5211]

Just do yourself a favor and find a new league jman, docking a draft pick for starting Tonyan over Devonta is a laughable overreach by a bunch of fantasy football Karen's taking themselves far too seriously.

[dynastyninja]

Always open for discussion, but it was a pretty egregious offense considering:
-Smith has nearly double Tonyan's PPG this year in our league
-Smith was going against the Titans, who have given up more fantasy points to WRs than any other team
-It was a critical matchup for the 1.01 against a low scoring team in the league. Smith has been in his lineup the entire season until this one (convenient) week.

A properly set lineup that week (there were other lesser offenses) would've resulted in a win and the 1.02 instead. Instead, the lineup tank was accomplished and he now has the 1.01.

Our league rules bleep suck when it comes to tanking, which is why we voted to switch to potential points this offseason. It's not fun docking picks from a rebuilding team, but the second offense was docking a pick, so that's what happened.

[Cameron Giles]

Are we talking about the same Robert Tonyan who has 153 receiving yards over his last 7 games and is TE19 on the season?

If it's not a TE Premium league, then why would anyone bench the WR2 in an elite offense to get those points? Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems pretty stupid. That's probably a more legitimate example of tanking than what the OP has.

[Kcarr]

Are we talking about the same Robert Tonyan who has 153 receiving yards over his last 7 games and is TE19 on the season?

If it's not a TE Premium league, then why would anyone bench the WR2 in an elite offense to get those points? Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems pretty stupid. That's probably a more legitimate example of tanking than what the OP has.

Yes, we are talking about that Robert tonyan and we are also talking about the same devonta Smith who had 4 double digit ges in the first 9 weeks of the season and outscored tonyan less often that tonyan outscored him through that point. Yes, he is the wr2 in a good offense but he wasn't exactly someone I was starting with confidence the first half of the season

[Cameron Giles]

Are we talking about the same Robert Tonyan who has 153 receiving yards over his last 7 games and is TE19 on the season?

If it's not a TE Premium league, then why would anyone bench the WR2 in an elite offense to get those points? Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems pretty stupid. That's probably a more legitimate example of tanking than what the OP has.

Yes, we are talking about that Robert tonyan and we are also talking about the same devonta Smith who had 4 double digit ges in the first 9 weeks of the season and outscored tonyan less often that tonyan outscored him through that point. Yes, he is the wr2 in a good offense but he wasn't exactly someone I was starting with confidence the first half of the season

Sometimes I can see it, but I'm just having a hard time putting myself in the shoes of someone who wants to get points from the TE19 in PPR by benching a player with much more upside and a higher floor.

Smith in a vacuum isn't a set-it-and-forget-it player, but compared to Robert Tonyan....this season? I just don't see the conundrum.

[Kcarr]

I am not saying tonyan over Smith is a close call or a call I would make at all, and I haven't had to as I sold all my tonyan shares over a year ago, but I am saying that I have a tough time seeing it as egregious enough to penalize someone by removing picks when at that point in the season 5 times tonyan had been the higher scoring player and 6 times Smith had

[Cameron Giles]

I am not saying tonyan over Smith is a close call or a call I would make at all, and I haven't had to as I sold all my tonyan shares over a year ago, but I am saying that I have a tough time seeing it as egregious enough to penalize someone by removing picks when at that point in the season 5 times tonyan had been the higher scoring player and 6 times Smith had

Think about it like this.

Tonyan is averaging 6.8 PPG in 13 games this season. He is the TE19 on the season. For all intents and purposes, unless you play in a TE Premium league, a player who is a low-end TE2 is not really fantasy relevant. It's a desperation dart throw in the dark.

For comparison, here are the WR equivalent who are averaging around 6.8 PPG and have played in 13 games this season:

- Ben Skowranek (WR85)
- Olamide Zaccheus (WR78)
- DeMarcus Robinson (WR79)
- K.J. Osborn (WR84)

*Based on PPG of players who have played at least 7 games this season.

If someone benched DeVonta Smith (WR26) for any of the above players, would you think that they are in any way serious about winning a game? Because I wouldn't.

Granted, maybe there's more information we're missing here, but benching a WR26 for a player that's close to WR90 seems like pretty obvious point shaving.

[Jigga94]

I am not saying tonyan over Smith is a close call or a call I would make at all, and I haven't had to as I sold all my tonyan shares over a year ago, but I am saying that I have a tough time seeing it as egregious enough to penalize someone by removing picks when at that point in the season 5 times tonyan had been the higher scoring player and 6 times Smith had

Think about it like this.

Tonyan is averaging 6.8 PPG in 13 games this season. He is the TE19 on the season. For all intents and purposes, unless you play in a TE Premium league, a player who is a low-end TE2 is not really fantasy relevant. It's a desperation dart throw in the dark.

For comparison, here are the WR equivalent who are averaging around 6.8 PPG and have played in 13 games this season:

- Ben Skowranek (WR85)
- Olamide Zaccheus (WR78)
- DeMarcus Robinson (WR79)
- K.J. Osborn (WR84)

*Based on PPG of players who have played at least 7 games this season.

If someone benched DeVonta Smith (WR26) for any of the above players, would you think that they are in any way serious about winning a game? Because I wouldn't.

Granted, maybe there's more information we're missing here, but benching a WR26 for a player that's close to WR90 seems like pretty obvious point shaving.

Especially given the context that the owner was starting Smith all year and then once he was in a pivotal game vs the other last place team, he played Tonyan instead