Marquise Brown is the best value in the draft

[mild]

What would you need added to Bateman to sell Hollywood?

I'm holding Bateman straight up.

Call me a madman, by all means.

[Cameron Giles]

What would you need added to Bateman to sell Hollywood?

Interestingly enough, KTC basically has them even.

I'd want a 2nd if I'm the Hollywood side.

[CGW]

Pretty even. I lean Hollywood because he's proven it at every step (college production, draft capital, Baltimore's WR1, and now AZs WR1), but it's one of those deals where whoever offers the trade will be adding something small to get the other.

[mild]

Pretty even. I lean Hollywood because he's proven it at every step (college production, draft capital, Baltimore's WR1, and now AZs WR1), but it's one of those deals where whoever offers the trade will be adding something small to get the other.

It's even for the first two of those, and Bateman has 3 years of youth and a far better surrounding environment - at least to my eyes. ARI are going downhill into the poop chute FAST, and there will be no quick fixes for this roster.

I think Bateman will prove the BAL WR1 thing in time. What he's already flashed thus far is electric - it's just so early in the piece right now.

I also vastly prefer buying WR's that measure more than 5'9 and 175 pounds, personally.

[Jigga94]

Glad we're all on the same page here

[Ice]

It would take Bateman and good first to even think about it.

These players are 6 plus points apart weekly. Pride kills a lot of fantasy teams.

Bateman is a good player but he is stuck in Baltimore for several years with a scheme that favors TE’s and running the ball.

Thinking they are even borders on straight up foolishness in fantasy football.

Brown ranks 3rd in targets in the NFL after 4 weeks

Bateman is somewhere between 45 and 50 in targets.

At some point sanity and logic need to take over from emotion.

[mild]

These players are 6 plus points apart weekly. Pride kills a lot of fantasy teams.

It's so true. Ignoring the bigger picture and known analytical tools is exactly how we make mistakes - like advocating for DIV II prospect Christian Watson over Drake London, just as an example.

Bateman is a good player but he is stuck in Baltimore for several years with a scheme that favors TE’s and running the ball.

At some point sanity and logic need to take over from emotion.

BAL Offense through 4 weeks:
- 3rd highest scoring Offense in the NFL
- 1st in Offensive DVOA
- Tied for 1st for passing touchdowns (6 of the 11 to WR's, more than Arizona's 5 total Passing TD's)
- 1st in TD% on passing attempts (9.1%)
- 4th in Yards Per Play, 3rd in Points per Game
- Lamar Jackson, MVP favourite

Imagine being "stuck" in BAL. The horror.

I won't bother with the ARI stats. I'll just be generous and say they're "middle of the pack".

There are good arguments for Hollywood, but team situation ain't it bub.

[Ice]

These players are 6 plus points apart weekly. Pride kills a lot of fantasy teams.

It's so true. Ignoring the bigger picture and known analytical tools is exactly how we make mistakes - like advocating for DIV II prospect Christian Watson over Drake London, just as an example.

Bateman is a good player but he is stuck in Baltimore for several years with a scheme that favors TE’s and running the ball.

At some point sanity and logic need to take over from emotion.

BAL Offense through 4 weeks:
- 3rd highest scoring Offense in the NFL
- 1st in Offensive DVOA
- Tied for 1st for passing touchdowns (6 of the 11 to WR's, more than Arizona's 5 total Passing TD's)
- 1st in TD% on passing attempts (9.1%)
- 4th in Yards Per Play, 3rd in Points per Game
- Lamar Jackson, MVP favourite

Imagine being "stuck" in BAL. The horror.

I won't bother with the ARI stats. I'll just be generous and say they're "middle of the pack".

There are good arguments for Hollywood, but situation ain't it bub.

I get you're probably related to Howard Stern with all your shockingly bad takes but it's all about targets.

Yes the Ravens have a great offense but anyone that studies them already knows it is schemed around TE's and running the ball which is why Bateman is targeted in the low 40's with only 32 teams in the league.

Bateman Targets, 5,7,4,6. Hey the good news is he is tied with Robby Anderson and one better than Nicco Collins and Jarvis Landry. If he only had 2 more targets he would be tied with Greg Dortch of AZ.

Brown on the other hand has more targets than Hill, Jefferson, Chase, and Diggs.

[mild]

I get you're probably related to Howard Stern with all your shockingly bad takes but it's all about targets.

Christian Watson over Drake London.

Yes the Ravens have a great offense but anyone that studies them already knows it is schemed around TE's and running the ball which is why Bateman is targeted in the low 40's with only 32 teams in the league.

Bateman Targets, 5,7,4,6. Hey the good news is he is tied with Robby Anderson and one better than Nicco Collins and Jarvis Landry. If he only had 2 more targets he would be tied with Greg Dortch of AZ.

Perhaps study them again, then. This is a pass-first offense now, and has been for over a year. They are literally ahead of the Cardinals in neutral pass rate. (ie. Pass Rate on 1st and 2nd down in neutral game script)

You're not wrong on the targets front. Bateman is doing a lot more with a lot less... just imagine if he got more usage and targets!

11/22 243 2TD - 11.0 yds p/target, 22 ypc
30/45 339 2TD - 7.5 yds p/target, 11.3 ypc

I think everyone that's paying attention to Hollywood and his top 10 target share right now is circling "Week 7" as something to watch. We'll see what happens when known target hog and former superstar DeAndre Hopkins returns to the fold. It's hard to imagine this will help Hollywood's target numbers, although I buy that it may increase his efficiency and chances for big plays.

But to put a bow on it -
22 year old 6'2 215lbs efficiency monster with top percentile wheels and 1st round DC playing alongside pass-first MVP Lamar on a top 3 offense
vs.
25 year old 5'9 mighty-mite getting jammed targets on a middle-of-the-pack team that is trending toward circling the dumpster, with no long term roster success nor coaching innovation to be seen on the horizon

It's not the slam dunk for Hollywood that you're trying to make out in Dynasty.

And it most CERTAINLY is not Hollywood + a 1st.

[Anteaters]

It would take Bateman and good first to even think about it.

++

[Jigga94]

I remember how low everyone was on Hollywood after he got hurt his rookie year and didn't come around until year 3. Comparing one guy in his 4th year and another in his 2nd is just funny.

Hollywood is in a better position to score points right now based on targets. I say give Bateman some time to become the WR1 on this offense before trading him and a 1st for Hollywood. No way I'm adding a 1st to get the other

[Cameron Giles]

I remember how low everyone was on Hollywood after he got hurt his rookie year and didn't come around until year 3. Comparing one guy in his 4th year and another in his 2nd is just funny.

Hollywood is in a better position to score points right now based on targets. I say give Bateman some time to become the WR1 on this offense before trading him and a 1st for Hollywood. No way I'm adding a 1st to get the other

Agreed. Getting Bateman and a 1st for Hollywood is a steal, and I love Hollywood.

Bateman is a very good prospect. I think he's going to become a really good player. He's still only in his second year.

[Ice]

I remember how low everyone was on Hollywood after he got hurt his rookie year and didn't come around until year 3. Comparing one guy in his 4th year and another in his 2nd is just funny.

Hollywood is in a better position to score points right now based on targets. I say give Bateman some time to become the WR1 on this offense before trading him and a 1st for Hollywood. No way I'm adding a 1st to get the other

I took Hollywood 1.3 in a league so I was always a fan. I am also pretty conservative with Wr’s because I know they typically take a few years to develop.

The reality here though is Brown has actually developed into a WR1 and we only hope Bateman will.

Studs are worth a hopeful and a first easily as a starting point in trade negotiations and it doesn’t matter if the stud is shorter like Mild tried to say with his post.

What Matters is when talent meets situation and we see it on game days.

I get when an individual won’t trade a player but the value difference between these two players today is obvious. The question isn’t about comparing the players as much as value based on today’s situation and today these two are not close.

[Space Cowboy]

Bateman is way more QB friendly with his frame and route running. Lamar is Lamar but I wouldn't be worried about Bateman. He's a way better fit than Hollywood ever was.

[PR0v3]

Bateman is way more QB friendly with his frame and route running. Lamar is Lamar but I wouldn't be worried about Bateman. He's a way better fit than Hollywood ever was.

Apparently Lamar disagrees that Bateman is more QB friendly or else, you know, he’d target him at a similar rate as he did Hollywood.

The reality is that when his QB hasn’t been injured, Hollywood Brown has been a rock solid set and forget WR1 since the second half of 2020. He’s also done it with two QBs and has had multiple teams invest first round picks in him. Bateman is just a hope and a prayer at this point, these two aren’t close at all.