Dynasty League Football Forum

Jets win again in spite of awful QB play.

Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:43 pm Jets win again in spite of awful QB play.

Firstly: I 100% agree with you.

But also: the Denver Defense has done this to every QB they've played this year.

Except for the GOAT: Geno Smith.

mild wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:07 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:43 pm Jets win again in spite of awful QB play.

Firstly: I 100% agree with you.

But also: the Denver Defense has done this to every QB they've played this year.

Except for the GOAT: Geno Smith.

If I was on their defense I'd want to fight their offense in the locker room

StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:09 pm

mild wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:07 pm

Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:43 pm Jets win again in spite of awful QB play.

Firstly: I 100% agree with you.

But also: the Denver Defense has done this to every QB they've played this year.

Except for the GOAT: Geno Smith.

If I was on their defense I'd want to fight their offense in the locker room

It’s only gotten better since they played Seattle too. I think that’s when they swapped Browning to rush. The Broncos defense should just offer to play both ways. Russell has to be hated in there.

Jets lost Vera-Tucker in this one too.

Wilson has managed the game well to guide the Jets to 4 straight wins.
Jets were down 2 of thier top 3 WRs, one of their top OL, and Breece Hall. Were you expecting Zach Wilson to drop 50 on Denver's top defense? Why, would the Jets even try, when 16 is sufficient?

If Breece Hall has an ACL injury, which is feared, then we will see what Zach Wilson is capable of during the next 3 games, NE twice and Buffalo. It could get ugly if Wilson is as bad as you all think.

remedy29 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:18 pm Wilson has managed the game well to guide the Jets to 4 straight wins. Jets were down 2 of thier top 3 WRs, one of their top OL, and Breece Hall. Were you expecting Zach Wilson to drop 50 on Denver's top defense? Why, would the Jets even try, when 16 is sufficient?

Wilson looked horrendous well before Breece, Davis, and Vera-Tucker went down. I definitely didn't expect him to lift the team after all that happened. He's looked bad since coming back overall.

I disagree that Wilson is managing the game well. I think the defense has been elite the last 4 weeks and the Jets staff has managed the game well around that. Wilson is playing easily replaceable football.

You're right though that it will be interesting to see what changes with Breece out. The defense should continue playing well, but the offense will probably have to take more chances through the air.

FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:24 pm

MacDaddy123 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:57 pm Hard for me to understand why teams will spend such high draft capital for a "game manager" at QB.

I mean basically people here are talking about Zach Wilson as a game manager, with two 1st round picks at WR and two 2nd round picks at WR. Just like Baker, Sam Darnold, Trubisky, Goff, Mariota, Bortles, were all top 5 picks in the NFL Draft, and teams just wanted them to NOT make mistakes. That makes no sense to me at all. (Daniel Jones just missed the cut as pick number 6).

Meanwhile, QB's like Josh Allen, Herbert, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Hurts, all of whom were not top 5 picks are wheeling and dealing, the opposite of game managers.

If I am an NFL team, I have to rethink this whole process about grabbing a QB at the top of the draft.
I certainly wouldn't spend a top 3 pick on a QB that I would just have to teach how NOT to lose games.

Game managers usually complete a lot more than 50 percent of their passes.

4 games back, 4 wins.
57.5% completion percentage, averaging 173 yards passing/game, 1 TD, 2 INT.
25 pass attempts/game.

If those aren't game manager stats, I don't know what is.

MacDaddy123 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:09 am

FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:24 pm

MacDaddy123 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:57 pm Hard for me to understand why teams will spend such high draft capital for a "game manager" at QB.

I mean basically people here are talking about Zach Wilson as a game manager, with two 1st round picks at WR and two 2nd round picks at WR. Just like Baker, Sam Darnold, Trubisky, Goff, Mariota, Bortles, were all top 5 picks in the NFL Draft, and teams just wanted them to NOT make mistakes. That makes no sense to me at all. (Daniel Jones just missed the cut as pick number 6).

Meanwhile, QB's like Josh Allen, Herbert, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Hurts, all of whom were not top 5 picks are wheeling and dealing, the opposite of game managers.

If I am an NFL team, I have to rethink this whole process about grabbing a QB at the top of the draft.
I certainly wouldn't spend a top 3 pick on a QB that I would just have to teach how NOT to lose games.

Game managers usually complete a lot more than 50 percent of their passes.

4 games back, 4 wins.
57.5% completion percentage, averaging 173 yards passing/game, 1 TD, 2 INT.
25 pass attempts/game.

If those aren't game manager stats, I don't know what is.

Even as a manager, those aren't good numbers. He needs to be fired. I'll agree that he's a game manager, with the caveat that he's a bad game manager. They are winning in spite of him, right now.

All jokes aside, it's a strange arc, because people were tabbing him as a Mahomes like arm talent etc. Maybe not that good, but in that range, and he's anything but a gunslinger. I mean, at some point, you have to rely on the guy to produce, and he's certainly got a long way to go. That entire class, isn't looking that great. Trevor is making some strides, and has a ceiling that he's a lot more likely to come close to, than the rest. At least Wilson has stable coaching. That's the 1 thing he's got going for him right now. He's not asked to do too much, and has a good coach. That may lead to a slow, but steady development, but I don't think the ceiling is as high as some thought pre NFL draft.

I'll wait a bit longer to judge him, I agree he hasn't looked good, he went from turning the ball over early last year to protecting the ball and not taking shots. I'd prefer him to be taking shots and learning from that but Saleh seems happy to let him protect and let the defence and run game get it done, with Hall gone and the Oline a mess I don't think they can continue to rely on the running part of that.

Ideally we see them loosen the leash on Zach and see if he can develop in the area he was meant to have high potential in... throwing bombs, but I fear what we'll see is more of the same, protect protect protect.

I just keep looking back to the one drive Zach looked good in and when they were chasing the win late in the 4th, I thought we saw legitimately good play from him moving the ball when he was actually asked to go out and win it.

AussieMate wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:58 pm I'll wait a bit longer to judge him, I agree he hasn't looked good, he went from turning the ball over early last year to protecting the ball and not taking shots. I'd prefer him to be taking shots and learning from that but Saleh seems happy to let him protect and let the defence and run game get it done, with Hall gone and the Oline a mess I don't think they can continue to rely on the running part of that.

Ideally we see them loosen the leash on Zach and see if he can develop in the area he was meant to have high potential in... throwing bombs, but I fear what we'll see is more of the same, protect protect protect.

I just keep looking back to the one drive Zach looked good in and when they were chasing the win late in the 4th, I thought we saw legitimately good play from him moving the ball when he was actually asked to go out and win it.

The main issue is how slow he is with his progressions and this makes some sense if the coaching staff has him double checking each read before throwing, which then leads to him missing opportunities and constantly throwing under pressure.

FantasyFreak wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 12:28 am Even as a manager, those aren't good numbers. He needs to be fired. I'll agree that he's a game manager, with the caveat that he's a bad game manager. They are winning in spite of him, right now.

All jokes aside, it's a strange arc, because people were tabbing him as a Mahomes like arm talent etc. Maybe not that good, but in that range, and he's anything but a gunslinger. I mean, at some point, you have to rely on the guy to produce, and he's certainly got a long way to go. That entire class, isn't looking that great. Trevor is making some strides, and has a ceiling that he's a lot more likely to come close to, than the rest. At least Wilson has stable coaching. That's the 1 thing he's got going for him right now. He's not asked to do too much, and has a good coach. That may lead to a slow, but steady development, but I don't think the ceiling is as high as some thought pre NFL draft.

This is spot on. The numbers are pretty bad even for a game manager role: 57.4 comp., 6.9 Y/A, 73.6 Passer, 48.6 QBR, 1% TD Rate. It's very easily replaceable production.

And to me, them trading for James Robinson immediately after Hall went down speaks volumes about how desperately they need to keep a strong run game to avoid having to be more aggressive through the air. Denver has a really talented defense, but the Jets do not trust Wilson to play QB.

But hey, they're 5-2.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1584975201149759488

Make of this what you will but it's definitely interesting

StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:37 pm https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1584975201149759488

Make of this what you will but it's definitely interesting

Wow, that is next level terrible… Was young Blaine Gabbert that bad?

ericanadian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:44 pm

StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:37 pm https://twitter.com/PFF_Sam/status/1584975201149759488

Make of this what you will but it's definitely interesting

Wow, that is next level terrible… Was young Blaine Gabbert that bad?

I mean depends how you look at it.

From everything I have seen on young QBs their performance in a clean pocket is the best indicator of future success. Many of the terrible rookie seasons were actually less bad when you just look at and compare clean pocket performance (and tbh that clean pocket performance is really really good)

On the other hand performance under pressure being THAT bad is still outside the norm. That's probably worse than Gabbert's

What a bust this QB class is turning out to be