Zach Wilson

[Cameron Giles]

When the Jets were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter vs the Steelers, ZW led the team to rally for the win. He looked great running the 2-minute offense.

Granted, the Jets don't want ZW to play from that position. They would prefer to run a conservative offense focused on the run. That's a winning strategy.

In week 1, Flacco threw a ridiculous 59 passes on his way to a 24-9 loss. That's bad football. That's a losing strategy for that team.

Jets fans are rightfully excited that the team is competitive for the first time in years. Wilson has been doing what's asked of him this year, and doing it reasonably well despite the opinions of Elijah Moore owners.

It's a winning strategy if your defense is keeping you in games, because it doesn't require you to take as many chances offensively. Play ball control, keep the other offense on the sidelines, and keep your defense fresh. Their defense was not playing at the level it is now in W1-3. It still says a lot that even with a good defense they still want to keep pass attempts well below league average.

All these teams with questionable young QBs seem to be operating on the same mentality right now until their guy shows he can play at a certain level.

[jomaed]

When the Jets were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter vs the Steelers, ZW led the team to rally for the win. He looked great running the 2-minute offense.

Granted, the Jets don't want ZW to play from that position. They would prefer to run a conservative offense focused on the run. That's a winning strategy.

In week 1, Flacco threw a ridiculous 59 passes on his way to a 24-9 loss. That's bad football. That's a losing strategy for that team.

Jets fans are rightfully excited that the team is competitive for the first time in years. Wilson has been doing what's asked of him this year, and doing it reasonably well despite the opinions of Elijah Moore owners.

Yes they are winning, but I am not sure he has been doing what's asked of him well....or even average.

He is only completing 55% of his passes, has more interceptions than TDs, and has a QBR of 47.

[mild]

Are the turnovers lower because Wilson is playing smarter football or because they're asking him to do less and putting him in a position to do less?

Undoubtably the latter. They don't want him throwing 35+ times a game. They would rather win with the run, and solid defense.

I'm not buying the Cover-2 shell argument. Moore and Wilson have solid separation numbers so far on Open Score and Target Separation. They simply just aren't getting the ball the last couple of weeks. That could be because of pass blocking or just not having the timing yet with those guys, but it's not like the WRs are creating risky throwing windows.

What the Jets are doing is great for real football. They're winning games and the defense and special teams have showed up. But, they also have one of the better WR cores in the league and can't get them the ball. So, it's certainly....different that they have this strength and can't use it.

Both angles can be true, I've no doubt that Moore and G-Wilson are getting open at an insane clip. I also definitely don't need to prove to you that the League is running the Cover 2 shell, and more Cover 3 in 2022 - specifically on 1st down - than ever before. Turn on any defensively-minded NFL podcast; it's all they're talking about this year. Defense is ahead of (passing) offense thus far in 2022.

Again, I would point you back to the data I posted showing that the '22 Bears, Falcons, ZW Jets, Giants and Titans are among literally the run heaviest teams of the modern era - and it's working, they're winning games - and it's all happening in the same year. The Bears are literally -the- most run heavy team of the last 30 years right now.

By the same token, Cover 1 - is waaaaaay down, and has been trending down the past 2 years solidly - almost 10% less Cover 1 is being run now over that timeline.

It used to be that teams focussed on stopping the run first, and the pass second. With how the game has evolved, and the rules that have led to a more wide open game, it has become clear to DC's that letting offenses be efficient (ie with downfield passing, and specifically "big plays") is their least desired outcome. They would rather gamble that making you take 15+ plays to drive the field will eventually lead to a mistake. Thus, they are loading the field with defensive backs, and saying "run it, by all means - but you're not hitting your shot plays today".

Which brings us full circle back to the 2022 Bears, Falcons, Jets, Giants, and Titans - running the absolute snot out of the ball, and winning games. It's no coincidence. We've come all the way back full circle... hell, next thing you're gonna tell me Running Backs matter again...

[Lumps]

Which brings us full circle back to the 2022 Bears, Falcons, Jets, Giants, and Titans - running the absolute snot out of the ball, and winning games. It's no coincidence. We've come all the way back full circle... hell, next thing you're gonna tell me Running Backs matter again...

Interestingly enough…..PFF of all places was just recently talking about changing their stance regarding RBs mattering again.

I’m also in the camp of Zach hasn’t been amazing, but not as bad as some think.

The WRs are good and getting getting open. Has Zach missed some? Sure, but not Russell levels. He still has a shuffling OL that hasn’t kept him clean.

**Speaking of, did you know that ZW has the highest PFF grade from a clean pocket this year?**

There are also plays where Elijah AND Garrett have quit on routes. I think it was JT O’Sullivan’s channel that was pointing this out. At least one of which caused an interception.

Also, there have been 2 passes to Breece where he went down at the 1 yard line which would have been TD passes. I dunno, it’s a bit of all these things.

[drobes]

When the Jets were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter vs the Steelers, ZW led the team to rally for the win. He looked great running the 2-minute offense.

Granted, the Jets don't want ZW to play from that position. They would prefer to run a conservative offense focused on the run. That's a winning strategy.

In week 1, Flacco threw a ridiculous 59 passes on his way to a 24-9 loss. That's bad football. That's a losing strategy for that team.

Jets fans are rightfully excited that the team is competitive for the first time in years. Wilson has been doing what's asked of him this year, and doing it reasonably well despite the opinions of Elijah Moore owners.

It's a winning strategy if your defense is keeping you in games, because it doesn't require you to take as many chances offensively. Play ball control, keep the other offense on the sidelines, and keep your defense fresh. Their defense was not playing at the level it is now in W1-3. It still says a lot that even with a good defense they still want to keep pass attempts well below league average.

All these teams with questionable young QBs seem to be operating on the same mentality right now until their guy shows he can play at a certain level.

The job of the coaching staff is to find a game-plan that fits the personnel and team makeup. Having Flacco throw it 59 times week 1 and 52 times week 3 was undoubtedly a poor strategy for the Jets and they lost both games. There are many factors that go into finding a winning game-plan. Perhaps Saleh views the new offensive philosophy since ZW took over as a better fit for the Jets defensive scheme and defensive personnel? In any case, they are competitive and winning games.

So does Elijah Moore's stats look better under Flacco when he's dropping back at absurd rates? Of course. But they were a worse football team for it.

[MontrealBen]

Which brings us full circle back to the 2022 Bears, Falcons, Jets, Giants, and Titans - running the absolute snot out of the ball, and winning games. It's no coincidence. We've come all the way back full circle... hell, next thing you're gonna tell me Running Backs matter again...

Interestingly enough…..PFF of all places was just recently talking about changing their stance regarding RBs mattering again.

I’m also in the camp of Zach hasn’t been amazing, but not as bad as some think.

The WRs are good and getting getting open. Has Zach missed some? Sure, but not Russell levels. He still has a shuffling OL that hasn’t kept him clean.

**Speaking of, did you know that ZW has the highest PFF grade from a clean pocket this year?**

There are also plays where Elijah AND Garrett have quit on routes. I think it was JT O’Sullivan’s channel that was pointing this out. At least one of which caused an interception.

Also, there have been 2 passes to Breece where he went down at the 1 yard line which would have been TD passes. I dunno, it’s a bit of all these things.

And has been by far and away the worst when under pressure. Betting on ZW is a bet on the coaching staff and the team builders. I honestly have no idea which way to lean.

[ericanadian]

When the Jets were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter vs the Steelers, ZW led the team to rally for the win. He looked great running the 2-minute offense.

Granted, the Jets don't want ZW to play from that position. They would prefer to run a conservative offense focused on the run. That's a winning strategy.

In week 1, Flacco threw a ridiculous 59 passes on his way to a 24-9 loss. That's bad football. That's a losing strategy for that team.

Jets fans are rightfully excited that the team is competitive for the first time in years. Wilson has been doing what's asked of him this year, and doing it reasonably well despite the opinions of Elijah Moore owners.

It's a winning strategy if your defense is keeping you in games, because it doesn't require you to take as many chances offensively. Play ball control, keep the other offense on the sidelines, and keep your defense fresh. Their defense was not playing at the level it is now in W1-3. It still says a lot that even with a good defense they still want to keep pass attempts well below league average.

All these teams with questionable young QBs seem to be operating on the same mentality right now until their guy shows he can play at a certain level.

The job of the coaching staff is to find a game-plan that fits the personnel and team makeup. Having Flacco throw it 59 times week 1 and 52 times week 3 was undoubtedly a poor strategy for the Jets and they lost both games. There are many factors that go into finding a winning game-plan. Perhaps Saleh views the new offensive philosophy since ZW took over as a better fit for the Jets defensive scheme and defensive personnel? In any case, they are competitive and winning games.

So does Elijah Moore's stats look better under Flacco when he's dropping back at absurd rates? Of course. But they were a worse football team for it.

I don’t think the 50ish% catchable target rate has anything to do with the scheme though.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Which brings us full circle back to the 2022 Bears, Falcons, Jets, Giants, and Titans - running the absolute snot out of the ball, and winning games. It's no coincidence. We've come all the way back full circle... hell, next thing you're gonna tell me Running Backs matter again...

Interestingly enough…..PFF of all places was just recently talking about changing their stance regarding RBs mattering again.

I’m also in the camp of Zach hasn’t been amazing, but not as bad as some think.

The WRs are good and getting getting open. Has Zach missed some? Sure, but not Russell levels. He still has a shuffling OL that hasn’t kept him clean.

**Speaking of, did you know that ZW has the highest PFF grade from a clean pocket this year?**

There are also plays where Elijah AND Garrett have quit on routes. I think it was JT O’Sullivan’s channel that was pointing this out. At least one of which caused an interception.

Also, there have been 2 passes to Breece where he went down at the 1 yard line which would have been TD passes. I dunno, it’s a bit of all these things.

And has been by far and away the worst when under pressure. Betting on ZW is a bet on the coaching staff and the team builders. I honestly have no idea which way to lean.

In response to previous comment in this, yeah I saw the same film breakdown in which Moore quitting on his route caused an int. Getting open is just one part of being a complete wr, jeudy is another prime example of this.

And I know I’ve seen clean pocket rating being more important than under pressure rating, but that might have just been for college projecting to the nfl. I read that probably a few years ago now. Not sure if the same applies for pros

[MacDaddy123]

Hard for me to understand why teams will spend such high draft capital for a "game manager" at QB.

I mean basically people here are talking about Zach Wilson as a game manager, with two 1st round picks at WR and two 2nd round picks at WR. Just like Baker, Sam Darnold, Trubisky, Goff, Mariota, Bortles, were all top 5 picks in the NFL Draft, and teams just wanted them to NOT make mistakes. That makes no sense to me at all. (Daniel Jones just missed the cut as pick number 6).

Meanwhile, QB's like Josh Allen, Herbert, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Hurts, all of whom were not top 5 picks are wheeling and dealing, the opposite of game managers.

If I am an NFL team, I have to rethink this whole process about grabbing a QB at the top of the draft.
I certainly wouldn't spend a top 3 pick on a QB that I would just have to teach how NOT to lose games.

[Cameron Giles]

It's a winning strategy if your defense is keeping you in games, because it doesn't require you to take as many chances offensively. Play ball control, keep the other offense on the sidelines, and keep your defense fresh. Their defense was not playing at the level it is now in W1-3. It still says a lot that even with a good defense they still want to keep pass attempts well below league average.

All these teams with questionable young QBs seem to be operating on the same mentality right now until their guy shows he can play at a certain level.

The job of the coaching staff is to find a game-plan that fits the personnel and team makeup. Having Flacco throw it 59 times week 1 and 52 times week 3 was undoubtedly a poor strategy for the Jets and they lost both games. There are many factors that go into finding a winning game-plan. Perhaps Saleh views the new offensive philosophy since ZW took over as a better fit for the Jets defensive scheme and defensive personnel? In any case, they are competitive and winning games.

So does Elijah Moore's stats look better under Flacco when he's dropping back at absurd rates? Of course. But they were a worse football team for it.

I don’t think the 50ish% catchable target rate has anything to do with the scheme though.

Exactly.

People are talking about Moore and Wilson quitting on routes, but that's the risk you run when WRs are not getting the ball in a low volume, inaccurate passing offense.

I don't think anyone is saying the Jets need to throw 55 times a game again, but they've swung too far into the other direction. Surely, they didn't spend a Top-10 pick, a high 2nd, and a $40M contract on WRs just to use them as decoys for a run game. It doesn't make sense.

[Cameron Giles]

When the Jets were down by 10 points in the 4th quarter vs the Steelers, ZW led the team to rally for the win. He looked great running the 2-minute offense.

Granted, the Jets don't want ZW to play from that position. They would prefer to run a conservative offense focused on the run. That's a winning strategy.

In week 1, Flacco threw a ridiculous 59 passes on his way to a 24-9 loss. That's bad football. That's a losing strategy for that team.

Jets fans are rightfully excited that the team is competitive for the first time in years. Wilson has been doing what's asked of him this year, and doing it reasonably well despite the opinions of Elijah Moore owners.

It's a winning strategy if your defense is keeping you in games, because it doesn't require you to take as many chances offensively. Play ball control, keep the other offense on the sidelines, and keep your defense fresh. Their defense was not playing at the level it is now in W1-3. It still says a lot that even with a good defense they still want to keep pass attempts well below league average.

All these teams with questionable young QBs seem to be operating on the same mentality right now until their guy shows he can play at a certain level.

The job of the coaching staff is to find a game-plan that fits the personnel and team makeup. Having Flacco throw it 59 times week 1 and 52 times week 3 was undoubtedly a poor strategy for the Jets and they lost both games. There are many factors that go into finding a winning game-plan. Perhaps Saleh views the new offensive philosophy since ZW took over as a better fit for the Jets defensive scheme and defensive personnel? In any case, they are competitive and winning games.

So does Elijah Moore's stats look better under Flacco when he's dropping back at absurd rates? Of course. But they were a worse football team for it.

I don't think it was a matter of changing the offense first. I think it was a matter of the defense turned it around first. They have a bunch of talent on that end too. That's what allows them to play a run-heavy script and not take as many chances offensively.

If the defense doesn't show up, then they're going to have to do more offensively to keep up.

I'm not arguing they need to throw 59 times a game. I'm just saying that the extreme opposite is also not a great game plan for the long-term.

[FantasyFreak]

Hard for me to understand why teams will spend such high draft capital for a "game manager" at QB.

I mean basically people here are talking about Zach Wilson as a game manager, with two 1st round picks at WR and two 2nd round picks at WR. Just like Baker, Sam Darnold, Trubisky, Goff, Mariota, Bortles, were all top 5 picks in the NFL Draft, and teams just wanted them to NOT make mistakes. That makes no sense to me at all. (Daniel Jones just missed the cut as pick number 6).

Meanwhile, QB's like Josh Allen, Herbert, Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Hurts, all of whom were not top 5 picks are wheeling and dealing, the opposite of game managers.

If I am an NFL team, I have to rethink this whole process about grabbing a QB at the top of the draft.
I certainly wouldn't spend a top 3 pick on a QB that I would just have to teach how NOT to lose games.

Game managers usually complete a lot more than 50 percent of their passes.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Someone needs to tell him to stop running backwards.

[Lumps]

Someone needs to tell him to stop running backwards.

Running for his life every single play. The OL was already in shambles and they lost Vera-Tucker in the game. Corey Davis is also out. Elijah Moore didn’t travel. I’m sure he sees Garrett blanketed and nothing else before he gets hit.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

Someone needs to tell him to stop running backwards.

It's the only thing he does really well.