Do I trade for the 1.5

[thewhyterabbit]

The guy that had the 1.5 traded it.

Now, I have an offer to trade S. Holmes and D. Bowe for G. Jennings and 1.5.

Pass. I love Jennings, but you would be giving up a player (Holmes) that has the same potential, therefore you would be giving up Bowe for the 1.5?

I know I'm in the minority here so let the bashing begin...

im with you mark, id rather have bowe and holmes than jenn and the 1.5

[skip]

There is a wide chasm which represents the talent that Holmes is missing to produce like Jennings. There is no sound reasoning, track history, etc. to suggest otherwise. To me this deal is about trading Bowe for Jennings - those two are close in talent. And then Holmes for the 1.5.

[Steelersfan]

There is a wide chasm which represents the talent that Holmes is missing to produce like Jennings. There is no sound reasoning, track history, etc. to suggest otherwise. To me this deal is about trading Bowe for Jennings - those two are close in talent. And then Holmes for the 1.5.

I totally disagree; "wide chasm" give me a break...

Yes Jennings broke out last year but we don't only go by last years numbers now do we? That would be a HUGE mistake.

There game is extremely similar as is there stats through there first two seasons:

Holmes: 2006 - 49/824/2, 2007 - 52/942/8
Jennings: 2006 - 45/632/3, 2007 - 53/920/12

They both have huge upside as they play in similar conditions, both have franchise QB's, and have comparable talent.

[skip]

Yes Jennings broke out last year but we don't only go by last years numbers now do we? That would be a HUGE mistake.

Well my use of "wide chasm" was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek not to be taken literally. But since you mention building expectations based on the output of one season - that's exactly the position you have taken with Big Ben. One great fantasy season out of five. While Ben and Rodgers may be franchise QBs, my expectations for the two of them are considerably different. My knock against Ben isn't his talent, it's the system he plays in doesn't require him to put up big fantasy numbers.

Jennings' numbers have trended upward each season.
Holmes' have stayed flat - in fact went down last season in that he only played 13 games in 2007 but produced less in more time last year.

Last year is significant and doesn't stand alone to support an argument that Jennings is, if nothing else, in the better situation of the two.

[tra151]

I think its crazy to compare jennings and holmes in this deal. Jennings is by far a better receiver than holmes. Any arguement to the contrary is foolish.

The better comparision is bowe and jennings. this is close, but i still like jennings.

the other half is 1.05 for holmes. I think crabtree is an easy choice over holmes, but i think this owner should take crabtree at #4 anyway, so i dont really think he factors in anyway. with that, its brown for holmes. i think thats fair, but i would give the edge to holmes becoming the go to guy in pitt.

All said and done, i think its fair. I would take crabtree at #4 and make the trade for jennings.

Did jennings really "break out" last year?

[pvballer3915]

I think its crazy to compare jennings and holmes in this deal. Jennings is by far a better receiver than holmes. Any arguement to the contrary is foolish.

The better comparision is bowe and jennings. this is close, but i still like jennings.

the other half is 1.05 for holmes. I think crabtree is an easy choice over holmes, but i think this owner should take crabtree at #4 anyway, so i dont really think he factors in anyway. with that, its brown for holmes. i think thats fair, but i would give the edge to holmes becoming the go to guy in pitt.

All said and done, i think its fair. I would take crabtree at #4 and make the trade for jennings.

Did jennings really "break out" last year?

Thank you! ^^^

Dont even say jennings is a "small" upgrade. Jennings killed it last year and holmes didnt even break the 1000 mark. I say do the trade. You get a similar production as bowe but 1.5 is DEF worth Holmes

[hosler427]

To me this deal is about trading Bowe for Jennings - those two are close in talent. And then Holmes for the 1.5.

I agree with this. I think it is logical to break the deal down this way and I would go with Jennings and 1.05 personally

[gunslinger]

So, I go to accept the deal. He asks me why I have the pick 1.05 in the deal. I said that you said it was your first round pick, and you only have the 1.05. The response is that he meant his 2010 first round pick which will be low, so the deal is off. This sucks, back to the drawing board.

[Steelersfan]

Yes Jennings broke out last year but we don't only go by last years numbers now do we? That would be a HUGE mistake.

Well my use of "wide chasm" was meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek not to be taken literally. But since you mention building expectations based on the output of one season - that's exactly the position you have taken with Big Ben. One great fantasy season out of five. While Ben and Rodgers may be franchise QBs, my expectations for the two of them are considerably different. My knock against Ben isn't his talent, it's the system he plays in doesn't require him to put up big fantasy numbers.

Jennings' numbers have trended upward each season.
Holmes' have stayed flat - in fact went down last season in that he only played 13 games in 2007 but produced less in more time last year.

Last year is significant and doesn't stand alone to support an argument that Jennings is, if nothing else, in the better situation of the two.

I don't recall stating anything that would cause anyone to make that comment. I don't value Ben as a top flight fantasy QB, but that doesn't mean that a Wr that he is throwing the ball to can't be a top fantasy Wr. With that being said I wouldn't put Rodgers too far ahead of him in my rankings though as he only has one great fantasy season himself.

All I'm trying to say here is that Holmes is being valued way too low by some people here and I don't understand it at all. I would rather have Jennings, but the gap isn't that wide for me.

I'm fine with breaking the deal down as Jennings > Bowe, but I would rather have Holmes than the 1.5 which would be Brown, not Crabtree since he already would be taking him with the 1.4.

[skip]

I don't recall stating anything that would cause anyone to make that comment.

Perhaps I am leaping to assumptions here then, but you seem to constantly be recommending him and have given the impression that he is underrated. My expectations for Ben peak at 3500 yards and 20 TDs. My expectations for Holmes peak at 65-950-6. The question then is whether those numbers are worth trading for Donald Brown (I agree that Crabtree is gone by 1.05).

[Steelersfan]

I don't recall stating anything that would cause anyone to make that comment.

Perhaps I am leaping to assumptions here then, but you seem to constantly be recommending him and have given the impression that he is underrated. My expectations for Ben peak at 3500 yards and 20 TDs. My expectations for Holmes peak at 65-950-6. The question then is whether those numbers are worth trading for Donald Brown (I agree that Crabtree is gone by 1.05).

Holmes is the one I feel is underrated. Roethlisberger is a second teir fantasy starter imo. Just for the record I am far from a homer as I rarely have any Steelers on my teams...

[skip]

I don't recall stating anything that would cause anyone to make that comment.

Perhaps I am leaping to assumptions here then, but you seem to constantly be recommending him and have given the impression that he is underrated. My expectations for Ben peak at 3500 yards and 20 TDs. My expectations for Holmes peak at 65-950-6. The question then is whether those numbers are worth trading for Donald Brown (I agree that Crabtree is gone by 1.05).

Holmes is the one I feel is underrated. Roethlisberger is a second teir fantasy starter imo. Just for the record I am far from a homer as I rarely have any Steelers on my teams...

Ok.

Actually here is a very good lesson on the value of draft picks. Prior to the NFL draft everyone has a list on who they think should be drafted where and so on. Then after the NFL draft those rankings change. Now people are looking at the likes of Donald Brown at 1.5.

As most know, I value players over picks and this is why. I am not a Holmes fan, but given this choice I would probably lean toward Holmes over Brown (and I should really change my earliest opinion on that in this thread). While Addai makes me nervous, Brown is no more secure of an option. Except the very early picks of a rookie draft, the value is almost always on the side of the existing player.

[Steelersfan]

Is Jennings an upgrade over Holmes? Again, similar receivers, similar weather-conditions, good QBs. While some would say that Holmes has yet to peak (i agree), I will also tell you that Jennings has a team that will pass more, and a QB that is more capable of the pass. I will also tell you that Jennings is cleaner than Holmes when it comes to discipline/character issues. Your call if you want to take the last one into consideration.

I would say that Jennings is a slight upgrade.

Really good discussion we had going on here awhile back. Let's look at their 2009 numbers:

Holmes - 79/1248/5
Jennings - 68/1113/4

Seems like The Pyrate nailed this one when it comes to character issues being taken into account even though Holmes did outproduce Jennings...

[gunslinger]

With my current report of the league, it looks like the top three draft picks will be

1. Moreno
2. Wells
3. Sanchez

I am sitting at 4 and would love to get Brown and Crabtree.

I am thinking about offering S. Holmes to the team with the 1.5 to nail them both down. Would you? If not, what would you offer for the 1.5? This team needs drastic help at RB and WR.

looking at your roster, I'd offer Ray Rice for 1.05. And if he wants more, I'd maybe go rice and Holmes, and ask for a 2nd round pick also tossed in, or something.

-oo-

Looking back a year later, I'm glad I didn't take this advice to trade Ray Rice for the 1.05!!!

[Steelersfan]

With my current report of the league, it looks like the top three draft picks will be

1. Moreno
2. Wells
3. Sanchez

I am sitting at 4 and would love to get Brown and Crabtree.

I am thinking about offering S. Holmes to the team with the 1.5 to nail them both down. Would you? If not, what would you offer for the 1.5? This team needs drastic help at RB and WR.

looking at your roster, I'd offer Ray Rice for 1.05. And if he wants more, I'd maybe go rice and Holmes, and ask for a 2nd round pick also tossed in, or something.

-oo-

Looking back a year later, I'm glad I didn't take this advice to trade Ray Rice for the 1.05!!!

I was bored yesterday and found a lot of interesting threads, and yes I did see this one but I spared the poster the embarrassment by not bringing it up...