Puka Nacua

[Cameron Giles]

gotcha.
hard to know where the line between player's skill and system is though. and players that can be lined up as the X and get comparable results anywhere are very very few and shouldn't be counted on as the norm. mc vay maximizes his players abilities no doubt, but couldn't make anything of van jefferson.

If not turning Van Jefferson into a good WR is the biggest knock, then that's nothing. McVay has clearly elevated some talents who probably wouldn't have been otherwise.

Someone said it before, but creating the system that maximized Kupp, Puka, and Kyren to stars/near stars is impressive. I'm not trying to knock those players, but it is a great accomplishment as a coach.

Exactly. I'm not saying it to paint a picture that these players suck, and didn't put in their own work. But, it's worth keeping in mind, especially with so many people chasing "the next Puka".

Sean McVay has elevated a WR into winning the triple crown, a WR into breaking the all-time rookie receiving record, and taken the corpse of Robert Woods and made him into a consecutive 1100+ yard WR. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[killer_of_giants]

i don't think anyone is debating whether mcvay is good or not really.

[Cameron Giles]

i don't think anyone is debating whether mcvay is good or not really.

Well, that's also not the point. But, yeah.

[killer_of_giants]

i don't think anyone is debating whether mcvay is good or not really.

Well, that's also not the point. But, yeah.

looked to me like it was beginning to be, but i must be mistaken...

If not turning Van Jefferson into a good WR is the biggest knock, then that's nothing. McVay has clearly elevated some talents who probably wouldn't have been otherwise.

Someone said it before, but creating the system that maximized Kupp, Puka, and Kyren to stars/near stars is impressive. I'm not trying to knock those players, but it is a great accomplishment as a coach.

Sean McVay has elevated a WR into winning the triple crown, a WR into breaking the all-time rookie receiving record, and taken the corpse of Robert Woods and made him into a consecutive 1100+ yard WR. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[Cameron Giles]

i don't think anyone is debating whether mcvay is good or not really.

Well, that's also not the point. But, yeah.

looked to me like it was beginning to be, but i must be mistaken...

If not turning Van Jefferson into a good WR is the biggest knock, then that's nothing. McVay has clearly elevated some talents who probably wouldn't have been otherwise.

Someone said it before, but creating the system that maximized Kupp, Puka, and Kyren to stars/near stars is impressive. I'm not trying to knock those players, but it is a great accomplishment as a coach.

Sean McVay has elevated a WR into winning the triple crown, a WR into breaking the all-time rookie receiving record, and taken the corpse of Robert Woods and made him into a consecutive 1100+ yard WR. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Oh yeah, the reason this thread was bumped.

I'm sure everyone knows McVay is a great coach. I'm not sure everyone knows that despite setting the rookie receiving record, Nacua was not that special as a separator last season.

Again, just something to keep in mind as people talk about "the next Puka" and trying to rank him among WRs going forward.

[killer_of_giants]

ok then. since you only picked the van jefferson part of my comment, might as well touch on the other two more important (as evidenced by being earlier in the paragraph) points, namely:
- it's hard to determine to what point it's the coach and to what point is the player.
- there are very very few WRs that you can just line up at the X and get comparable results regardless of situation.

nacua is not the greatest separator but he ain't too shabby either and as a sophomore has room to grow. you can also be an excellent WR without being an excellent separator. nacua benefited from a great situation, and is also a great player.

[Cameron Giles]

ok then. since you only picked the van jefferson part of my comment, might as well touch on the other two more important (as evidenced by being earlier in the paragraph) points, namely:
- it's hard to determine to what point it's the coach and to what point is the player.
- there are very very few WRs that you can just line up at the X and get comparable results regardless of situation.

nacua is not the greatest separator but he ain't too shabby either and as a sophomore has room to grow. you can also be an excellent WR without being an excellent separator. nacua benefited from a great situation, and is also a great player.

Nacua is going off the board as about a Top-5 WR in startups.

This thread has had a lot of debate about how special Nacua actually is relative to his situation. I think Reception Perception and Open Score have added some much needed context to what he is as a player. I think some would have expected much better numbers in those areas given what he actually accomplished last year, so it's pretty interesting to see these numbers.

I think he is a good player who benefit from a great situation. I think the bold is important, because he's in a tier with a bunch of players who can do exactly that. It's just something to keep in mind as people are figuring out how to value him long-term, and how to find the "next" one of him.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

ok then. since you only picked the van jefferson part of my comment, might as well touch on the other two more important (as evidenced by being earlier in the paragraph) points, namely:
- it's hard to determine to what point it's the coach and to what point is the player.
- there are very very few WRs that you can just line up at the X and get comparable results regardless of situation.

nacua is not the greatest separator but he ain't too shabby either and as a sophomore has room to grow. you can also be an excellent WR without being an excellent separator. nacua benefited from a great situation, and is also a great player.

Nacua is going off the board as about a Top-5 WR in startups.

This thread has had a lot of debate about how special Nacua actually is relative to his situation. I think Reception Perception and Open Score have added some much needed context to what he is as a player. I think some would have expected much better numbers in those areas given what he actually accomplished last year, so it's pretty interesting to see these numbers.

I think he is a good player who benefit from a great situation. I think the bold is important, because he's in a tier with a bunch of players who can do exactly that. It's just something to keep in mind as people are figuring out how to value him long-term, and how to find the "next" one of him.

People should be drafting him because of how safe of a pick he is and not his upside. He very may have well had a career year as a rookie and there’s nothing wrong with that. He doesn’t shine in the areas you describe but he has a knack for being in the right place at the right time and making plays. Some of that just doesn’t show up on a stat sheet. If you’re drafting him top 5 because you think he’ll be a top 5 scorer you’re probably going to be disappointed. But if you’re drafting him top 5 because he’s a young established player with a really high floor, then you’ll probably be very happy.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

If not turning Van Jefferson into a good WR is the biggest knock, then that's nothing. McVay has clearly elevated some talents who probably wouldn't have been otherwise.

Someone said it before, but creating the system that maximized Kupp, Puka, and Kyren to stars/near stars is impressive. I'm not trying to knock those players, but it is a great accomplishment as a coach.

Exactly. I'm not saying it to paint a picture that these players suck, and didn't put in their own work. But, it's worth keeping in mind, especially with so many people chasing "the next Puka".

Sean McVay has elevated a WR into winning the triple crown, a WR into breaking the all-time rookie receiving record, and taken the corpse of Robert Woods and made him into a consecutive 1100+ yard WR. It's absolutely ridiculous.

the corpse of robert woods? just because the bills used to like to have him blocking all the time doesn't mean he couldn't play.

and what about jerry rice and the wco? does that mean he wasn't as good because of that fancy new offense?

[Cameron Giles]

Someone said it before, but creating the system that maximized Kupp, Puka, and Kyren to stars/near stars is impressive. I'm not trying to knock those players, but it is a great accomplishment as a coach.

Exactly. I'm not saying it to paint a picture that these players suck, and didn't put in their own work. But, it's worth keeping in mind, especially with so many people chasing "the next Puka".

Sean McVay has elevated a WR into winning the triple crown, a WR into breaking the all-time rookie receiving record, and taken the corpse of Robert Woods and made him into a consecutive 1100+ yard WR. It's absolutely ridiculous.

the corpse of robert woods? just because the bills used to like to have him blocking all the time doesn't mean he couldn't play.

and what about jerry rice and the wco? does that mean he wasn't as good because of that fancy new offense?

Woods had done nothing in his first four years to make you think he was going to put up consecutive 1100+ receiving yards once he left Buffalo.

Jerry Rice was drafted in the first round.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

Exactly. I'm not saying it to paint a picture that these players suck, and didn't put in their own work. But, it's worth keeping in mind, especially with so many people chasing "the next Puka".

Sean McVay has elevated a WR into winning the triple crown, a WR into breaking the all-time rookie receiving record, and taken the corpse of Robert Woods and made him into a consecutive 1100+ yard WR. It's absolutely ridiculous.

the corpse of robert woods? just because the bills used to like to have him blocking all the time doesn't mean he couldn't play.

and what about jerry rice and the wco? does that mean he wasn't as good because of that fancy new offense?

Woods had done nothing in his first four years to make you think he was going to put up consecutive 1100+ receiving yards once he left Buffalo.

Jerry Rice was drafted in the first round.

once again, he was blocking most of the time.

why did i think rice was taken in the 3rd round? i must be mixing up players.

[Anteaters]

Woods had done nothing in his first four years to make you think he was going to put up consecutive 1100+ receiving yards once he left Buffalo.

Jerry Rice was drafted in the first round.

once again, he was blocking most of the time.

why did i think rice was taken in the 3rd round? i must be mixing up players.

Terrell Owens? Third round pick (#89) in 1996.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

Woods had done nothing in his first four years to make you think he was going to put up consecutive 1100+ receiving yards once he left Buffalo.

Jerry Rice was drafted in the first round.

once again, he was blocking most of the time.

why did i think rice was taken in the 3rd round? i must be mixing up players.

Terrell Owens? Third round pick (#89) in 1996.

Either that or Joe Montana.

[Cameron Giles]

the corpse of robert woods? just because the bills used to like to have him blocking all the time doesn't mean he couldn't play.

and what about jerry rice and the wco? does that mean he wasn't as good because of that fancy new offense?

Woods had done nothing in his first four years to make you think he was going to put up consecutive 1100+ receiving yards once he left Buffalo.

Jerry Rice was drafted in the first round.

once again, he was blocking most of the time.

why did i think rice was taken in the 3rd round? i must be mixing up players.

How many times in the NFL do you see a WR go from being a blocking decoy for four years into a full-on 1100+ yard threat? Woods simply wasn't good and went to the Rams and had a career revival.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

Woods had done nothing in his first four years to make you think he was going to put up consecutive 1100+ receiving yards once he left Buffalo.

Jerry Rice was drafted in the first round.

once again, he was blocking most of the time.

why did i think rice was taken in the 3rd round? i must be mixing up players.

How many times in the NFL do you see a WR go from being a blocking decoy for four years into a full-on 1100+ yard threat? Woods simply wasn't good and went to the Rams and had a career revival.

The Rams knew because they paid him a hefty sum in free agency and all the idiots in the media were laughing at how much they paid him. After a couple of years it became obvious they got him at a bargain rate.