Javonte Williams Thread

[MacDaddy123]

You can't be serious!!!
You think Waddle has more value than picks 1.03, 2.03, 3.03, and 4.03 in a loaded 2023 draft class with SF AND IDP????
You probably have very little IDP experience, or, you must be Waddle's #1 fan!!!

I will briefly get on a soapbox. Please don't ask for opinions then do this to a person that gives their take. Accept the opinion, adjust your value if you feel it is needed and move on. Don't do this.

Acknowledged.

[halfbaked88]

You can't be serious!!!
You think Waddle has more value than picks 1.03, 2.03, 3.03, and 4.03 in a loaded 2023 draft class with SF AND IDP????
You probably have very little IDP experience, or, you must be Waddle's #1 fan!!!

I will briefly get on a soapbox. Please don't ask for opinions then do this to a person that gives their take. Accept the opinion, adjust your value if you feel it is needed and move on. Don't do this.

Acknowledged.

Just for added note I was going to reply with something along those lines also. It's not really an acceptable response to someone trying to help you.... all it does is makes sure that person (and likely other people) never respond to you again.

On a similar note, it's like ridiculing leaguemates and trading partners. (I'm ranting, generally now by the way) ... If I ask for a discount in a store and get laughed at by the store owner... I'm not coming back. On the Sleeper app I send out trade offers and get back 'LOL' ... I'm just like, why do people do that. They aren't bad offers, but even if they were, why alienate yourself from the market.

Bold strategy ridiculing trade partners. I try to explain that to people and they're just like pfffft yEaH oK bUdDy. It's weird. I'm not saying you do this. It just reminded me.

[murphysxm]

You can't be serious!!!
You think Waddle has more value than picks 1.03, 2.03, 3.03, and 4.03 in a loaded 2023 draft class with SF AND IDP????
You probably have very little IDP experience, or, you must be Waddle's #1 fan!!!

I will briefly get on a soapbox. Please don't ask for opinions then do this to a person that gives their take. Accept the opinion, adjust your value if you feel it is needed and move on. Don't do this.

Acknowledged.

I fairness good on you for this response.

[MacDaddy123]

I will briefly get on a soapbox. Please don't ask for opinions then do this to a person that gives their take. Accept the opinion, adjust your value if you feel it is needed and move on. Don't do this.

Acknowledged.

Just for added note I was going to reply with something along those lines also. It's not really an acceptable response to someone trying to help you.... all it does is makes sure that person (and likely other people) never respond to you again.

On a similar note, it's like ridiculing leaguemates and trading partners. (I'm ranting, generally now by the way) ... If I ask for a discount in a store and get laughed at by the store owner... I'm not coming back. On the Sleeper app I send out trade offers and get back 'LOL' ... I'm just like, why do people do that. They aren't bad offers, but even if they were, why alienate yourself from the market.

Bold strategy ridiculing trade partners. I try to explain that to people and they're just like pfffft yEaH oK bUdDy. It's weird. I'm not saying you do this. It just reminded me.

While I do understand that concept, I guess I didn't interpret someone telling me that my trade offer was crap to be very helpful at all.
Some might even say it is the opposite of being helpful.

I get that many people have many different opinions, and I respect that. This is not my only avenue for fantasy football analysis.
I have a few fantasy football sites that I use, and this is one of them, and it is useful.
Different sites give you different flavors, and that is fine.

That said, I just found it a bit strange to hear that the trade I have on the table, which is still under consideration by the way, and at least 2 other websites favored the side of the picks, though slightly, like 57% - 43%, then have someone say that those picks would not even land one of those players just seemed like a left field comment to me at the time.

I apologize for any hurt feelings, but I do question what some folks consider being "helpful".

I will let you all know how the offer turns out. The other owner has acknowledged it, and is considering it.
I am sure that he doesn't want to accept it, but sometimes accepting reality is not easy.

He thought he had a good team before week 1, and so did I. I was expecting late round picks from him.
Neither of us expected him to be in 10th place out of 12 teams after 4 weeks, but here we are.
He is devastated with injuries, and no 2023 draft picks to show for his suffering.

If he doesn't want the picks, I am fine with that too, as slightly over half the population seem to favor the picks.
it's a fair deal, though obviously some will disagree. Some favor players, some favor picks.

[halfbaked88]

Acknowledged.

Just for added note I was going to reply with something along those lines also. It's not really an acceptable response to someone trying to help you.... all it does is makes sure that person (and likely other people) never respond to you again.

On a similar note, it's like ridiculing leaguemates and trading partners. (I'm ranting, generally now by the way) ... If I ask for a discount in a store and get laughed at by the store owner... I'm not coming back. On the Sleeper app I send out trade offers and get back 'LOL' ... I'm just like, why do people do that. They aren't bad offers, but even if they were, why alienate yourself from the market.

Bold strategy ridiculing trade partners. I try to explain that to people and they're just like pfffft yEaH oK bUdDy. It's weird. I'm not saying you do this. It just reminded me.

While I do understand that concept, I guess I didn't interpret someone telling me that my trade offer was crap to be very helpful at all.
Some might even say it is the opposite of being helpful.

I get that many people have many different opinions, and I respect that. This is not my only avenue for fantasy football analysis.
I have a few fantasy football sites that I use, and this is one of them, and it is useful.
Different sites give you different flavors, and that is fine.

That said, I just found it a bit strange to hear that the trade I have on the table, which is still under consideration by the way, and at least 2 other websites favored the side of the picks, though slightly, like 57% - 43%, then have someone say that those picks would not even land one of those players just seemed like a left field comment to me at the time.

I apologize for any hurt feelings, but I do question what some folks consider being "helpful".

I will let you all know how the offer turns out. The other owner has acknowledged it, and is considering it.
I am sure that he doesn't want to accept it, but sometimes accepting reality is not easy.

He thought he had a good team before week 1, and so did I. I was expecting late round picks from him.
Neither of us expected him to be in 10th place out of 12 teams after 4 weeks, but here we are.
He is devastated with injuries, and no 2023 draft picks to show for his suffering.

If he doesn't want the picks, I am fine with that too, as slightly over half the population seem to favor the picks.
it's a fair deal, though obviously some will disagree. Some favor players, some favor picks.

Show me where it was said your trade was crap? Or did you just interpret it very negatively?

Whether it was helpful to you or not, the keyword here is "trying" to help. I don't really care all that much or wanna argue about it... Kinda pointless, I'm just sharing an opinion.

As far as the trade, not many people play IDP vs the vast majority of fantasy football managers. So evaluating these trades often get some surprising responses. I just read the advice and either consider it or reject it, respectfully.

Personally if I'm rebuilding I want the picks. You already know the guy's team is trash at the moment. It's gonna be early. The main thing is, every buyer, even bad managers, look at those picks then open up that guy's team will know in .2 seconds that the picks are gonna be early. Seeing "early 1st" in flashing neon letters is an easy sell that everyone wants.

I want that. It's more valuable on the open market. And carries zero risk.

[MacDaddy123]

I said I would report back with the results, and the other owner finally did decline that deal.
He made a counter, which I declined.
I do not plan to make any more offers, I will just hold al of the 2023 picks.

[murphysxm]

While I do understand that concept, I guess I didn't interpret someone telling me that my trade offer was crap to be very helpful at all.
Some might even say it is the opposite of being helpful.

I take back my acknowledgment of you recognizing your poor post. In a real, competitive league, your offer was crap. The response you got was kind in the way that message was delivered. Sorry you don’t see it that way, but your offer was crap and knowing that is helpful. Moving on.

[Jigga94]

The way I view this is that 1.03 ~ Waddle, then I give up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Javonte Williams.

I'll go on record as saying this is not a bad offer. Probably not accepted, but worth a shot.

I think once rookie fever comes around and knowing this is SF, 1.03 in 2023 is going to be more valuable than Waddle as its likely Stroud/Young.

The 2.03, 3, 4 is also pretty fair for a RB who likely won't be 100% until 2024. I wouldn't pay much more than that tbh. He was good last year in a committe but never really deserved to be a top 5 dynasty RB.

He's currently RB8 on KTC and should continue to fall, fall, fall. Dobbins was in a similar position and fell to RB22.

[gogobradyarm]

The way I view this is that 1.03 ~ Waddle, then I give up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Javonte Williams.

I'll go on record as saying this is not a bad offer. Probably not accepted, but worth a shot.

I think once rookie fever comes around and knowing this is SF, 1.03 in 2023 is going to be more valuable than Waddle as its likely Stroud/Young.

The 2.03, 3, 4 is also pretty fair for a RB who likely won't be 100% until 2024. I wouldn't pay much more than that tbh. He was good last year in a committe but never really deserved to be a top 5 dynasty RB.

He's currently RB8 on KTC and should continue to fall, fall, fall. Dobbins was in a similar position and fell to RB22.

I don’t understand how 2.03 plus scraps is good for Javonte. This a guy that was ranked higher than Saquon and Dobbins when they were injured, and now they’ve climbed and Javonte is falling. Saquon alone is back to being worth multiple firsts. Dobbins is not being sold anywhere for 2.03 plus scraps.

[gogobradyarm]

I wouldn’t sell Javonte for 2.03 but I’d move him for a mid first. Not a late first, but that’s just me.

[MacDaddy123]

The way I view this is that 1.03 ~ Waddle, then I give up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Javonte Williams.

I'll go on record as saying this is not a bad offer. Probably not accepted, but worth a shot.

I think once rookie fever comes around and knowing this is SF, 1.03 in 2023 is going to be more valuable than Waddle as its likely Stroud/Young.

The 2.03, 3, 4 is also pretty fair for a RB who likely won't be 100% until 2024. I wouldn't pay much more than that tbh. He was good last year in a committe but never really deserved to be a top 5 dynasty RB.

He's currently RB8 on KTC and should continue to fall, fall, fall. Dobbins was in a similar position and fell to RB22.

I don’t understand how 2.03 plus scraps is good for Javonte. This a guy that was ranked higher than Saquon and Dobbins when they were injured, and now they’ve climbed and Javonte is falling. Saquon alone is back to being worth multiple firsts. Dobbins is not being sold anywhere for 2.03 plus scraps.

I guess my only response is that picks 3.03 and 4.03 are hardly scraps in a 12 team league where each team starts 22 players every week.
Full IDP, and the draft runs through 6 full rounds, so still PLENTY of meat on the bones in rounds 3 and 4.
Full IDP means that offensive players who would go in round 2 in leagues with no IDP will drop into round 3, possibly further.
Good chance of grabbing a late 2nd round offensive prospect with pick 4.03.

Starting 22 players you have a good chance at drafting starting players in at least the first 3 rounds, if not 4 of the 6 round draft.

The trade was not accepted, and I am fine with that. I have no intentions of upping my offer.
That is the only trade that I have sent that team.
I have received 2 offers from him that were immediate declines though, much worse offers than the one I sent, IMO.

There will also be rookies who do not get drafted in the 6 rounds who will be claimed as free agents.

[MacDaddy123]

I wouldn’t sell Javonte for 2.03 but I’d move him for a mid first. Not a late first, but that’s just me.

I would tend to agree with you, though there is no way you get a mid 1st, so basically you are just holding Javonte, which is what I am doing in the leagues where I have him.
Javonte's value has been all over the place.

The highest I have seen paid for him is Rhamandre Stevenson + a late 2023 1st.

I have seen him sold for a lot less though, like Brandon Aiyuk + a 2023 4th round pick.

[MacDaddy123]

The way I view this is that 1.03 ~ Waddle, then I give up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Javonte Williams.

I'll go on record as saying this is not a bad offer. Probably not accepted, but worth a shot.

I think once rookie fever comes around and knowing this is SF, 1.03 in 2023 is going to be more valuable than Waddle as its likely Stroud/Young.

The 2.03, 3, 4 is also pretty fair for a RB who likely won't be 100% until 2024. I wouldn't pay much more than that tbh. He was good last year in a committe but never really deserved to be a top 5 dynasty RB.

He's currently RB8 on KTC and should continue to fall, fall, fall. Dobbins was in a similar position and fell to RB22.

Thank you.
It's refreshing to see that some here understand how deeper/different leagues operate.

[gogobradyarm]

I'll go on record as saying this is not a bad offer. Probably not accepted, but worth a shot.

I think once rookie fever comes around and knowing this is SF, 1.03 in 2023 is going to be more valuable than Waddle as its likely Stroud/Young.

The 2.03, 3, 4 is also pretty fair for a RB who likely won't be 100% until 2024. I wouldn't pay much more than that tbh. He was good last year in a committe but never really deserved to be a top 5 dynasty RB.

He's currently RB8 on KTC and should continue to fall, fall, fall. Dobbins was in a similar position and fell to RB22.

I don’t understand how 2.03 plus scraps is good for Javonte. This a guy that was ranked higher than Saquon and Dobbins when they were injured, and now they’ve climbed and Javonte is falling. Saquon alone is back to being worth multiple firsts. Dobbins is not being sold anywhere for 2.03 plus scraps.

I guess my only response is that picks 3.03 and 4.03 are hardly scraps in a 12 team league where each team starts 22 players every week.
Full IDP, and the draft runs through 6 full rounds, so still PLENTY of meat on the bones in rounds 3 and 4.
Full IDP means that offensive players who would go in round 2 in leagues with no IDP will drop into round 3, possibly further.
Good chance of grabbing a late 2nd round offensive prospect with pick 4.03.

Starting 22 players you have a good chance at drafting starting players in at least the first 3 rounds, if not 4 of the 6 round draft.

The trade was not accepted, and I am fine with that. I have no intentions of upping my offer.
That is the only trade that I have sent that team.
I have received 2 offers from him that were immediate declines though, much worse offers than the one I sent, IMO.

There will also be rookies who do not get drafted in the 6 rounds who will be claimed as free agents.

Ah. I failed reading.

In that case, maybe there is an argument.

[Jigga94]

The way I view this is that 1.03 ~ Waddle, then I give up a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round pick for Javonte Williams.

I'll go on record as saying this is not a bad offer. Probably not accepted, but worth a shot.

I think once rookie fever comes around and knowing this is SF, 1.03 in 2023 is going to be more valuable than Waddle as its likely Stroud/Young.

The 2.03, 3, 4 is also pretty fair for a RB who likely won't be 100% until 2024. I wouldn't pay much more than that tbh. He was good last year in a committe but never really deserved to be a top 5 dynasty RB.

He's currently RB8 on KTC and should continue to fall, fall, fall. Dobbins was in a similar position and fell to RB22.

Thank you.
It's refreshing to see that some here understand how deeper/different leagues operate.

All good. I've seen owners that are in denial about his value. Sure he may have been the RB3 on rankings, but I always thought that was overvalued too.

I've seen people say they'd rather have Javonte than Cook, Jacobs, Mixon... heck someone even told me they prefer Javonte to Saquon. They said "Barkley is injury prone"

If I still had Javonte, I'd be selling for any of those RB unless I was in a deep rebuild. Give me RB1/2 production for the next few years over someone who might come back and give me the same thing in 2024 and beyond