Picks for Cousins, New Approach

[wickerkat1212]

I think 1.11 was a pretty fair deal. I’d give that for Cousins if I was a contender.

That said, everyone values differently. And if they shot down giving up 1.11 for him, I highly doubt they’ll give those three 2nds for him. I personally think that’s an even better deal for you than 1.11 would be.

I actually agree with you, but hoping this guy doesn't see it that way. He was offering 2.03 basically, where I was looking for the 1.09 or 1.11. Not that far apart. IDK. We'll see.

[wickerkat1212]

The guy passed. I think we're too far apart. He barely wants to offer the 2.03 alone, which isn't worth it for me. So, I guess I'm done trying to move Cousins, to this guy, as of right now. He made this deal, which, IMO is pretty bad? No guarantee Fields is ever a starting QB again. And yes we're a TEP league, but not sure Musgrave is the man. AND that 2025 1st is probably late.

CC 85 gave up Year 2024 Draft Pick 1.03; Year 2024 Draft Pick 1.11

Dirty Wolves gave up Fields, Justin PIT QB; Dotson, Jahan WAS WR; Musgrave, Luke GBP TE; Year 2024 Draft Pick 2.05; Year 2024 Draft Pick 2.06; Year 2025 Round 1 Draft Pick from Dirty Wolves

[CGW]

Honestly I think I'd be happy he declined. I wouldn't trade cousins for 2nds and I don't think I'd even take the 1.11. 1.09 is a stretch, but this time of year that's probably the right price. Come mid season when injuries start to happen and cousins is a mid range QB1, he will be worth more and easier to sell.

[wickerkat1212]

In a rebuild I'm fine with this. I have a feeling I may have 14-15 players with a first round grade this year. So even though you aren't getting a first rounder I think the 2.03 will be as valuable as one.

Also your team seems closer to the rebuild side than compete. You'd have to hope cousins recovers fine and someone else offers a 25 1st to get the first, and it would be a year away.

If you were a contending team I'd probably say no.

Thanks. The nice thing about Superflex is that you don't HAVE to start two qbs. If say somebody like Harrison really is special, why not start a WR and only run out ONE QB? I would THINK a top PPR WR (or even TEP in this league) might be more valuable than starting two QBs.

Well the answer is PPG. In 4pt/TD, PPR - Baker, Wilson, Stafford, Howell outscored JJ on a PPG basis last year.

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

[knotts4372]

you seem dead set on trading cousins as you mention him in lots of posts. seems like you really are torn on what you wanna do in this rookie draft like you wanna force yourself to take a qb for some reason. it may be time to just take a few (like a lot) steps back from that team and stop over thinking it. just let whoever has 1.1 do their thing and it will give you all the answers you need about what to do with your own team.

long story short i think if you trade cousins, even if you do get the 1st you expect back, it just forces you to change the entire approach you had envisioned for yourself. just think you are trying to tinker with things WAYYYYY too much

[MacDaddy123]

Only if you are drafting a QB at 1.02.

[wickerkat1212]

you seem dead set on trading cousins as you mention him in lots of posts. seems like you really are torn on what you wanna do in this rookie draft like you wanna force yourself to take a qb for some reason. it may be time to just take a few (like a lot) steps back from that team and stop over thinking it. just let whoever has 1.1 do their thing and it will give you all the answers you need about what to do with your own team.

long story short i think if you trade cousins, even if you do get the 1st you expect back, it just forces you to change the entire approach you had envisioned for yourself. just think you are trying to tinker with things WAYYYYY too much

True. I had a guy aggressively pursuing Cousins, so it wasn't my idea initially. But in the end the most he wanted to give up was the 2.03 so I'm going to hold. I'm really bad at trades, that's why I post up a lot. Better at evaluation and drafting. Thanks for the thoughts here.

[wickerkat1212]

Only if you are drafting a QB at 1.02.

Good point.

[TheTroll]

Thanks. The nice thing about Superflex is that you don't HAVE to start two qbs. If say somebody like Harrison really is special, why not start a WR and only run out ONE QB? I would THINK a top PPR WR (or even TEP in this league) might be more valuable than starting two QBs.

Well the answer is PPG. In 4pt/TD, PPR - Baker, Wilson, Stafford, Howell outscored JJ on a PPG basis last year.

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

Regardless of high scoring, it makes QBs basically equal as they cancel themselves out. You have enough of these guys and you don’t want to be overly focused on having to draft another one at 1.02.

[tstafford]

Thanks. The nice thing about Superflex is that you don't HAVE to start two qbs. If say somebody like Harrison really is special, why not start a WR and only run out ONE QB? I would THINK a top PPR WR (or even TEP in this league) might be more valuable than starting two QBs.

Well the answer is PPG. In 4pt/TD, PPR - Baker, Wilson, Stafford, Howell outscored JJ on a PPG basis last year.

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

I checked two of my leagues that have relatively basic scoring - one is 4 pt TD the other is 6. In both the numbers are higher than yours.. Guessing your league penalizes INTs more severely or something.

It seems that you want Harrison. That's totally fine.

However I'm not buying the argument that starting a non-QB in the SF slot in anything but an emergency is a good strategy. You can get similar or better points that a top WR will generate with a replacement level QB who is much cheaper to acquire.

Starting MHJR as a WR and Cousins in the SF would be a strong move

[CGW]

Well the answer is PPG. In 4pt/TD, PPR - Baker, Wilson, Stafford, Howell outscored JJ on a PPG basis last year.

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

I checked two of my leagues that have relatively basic scoring - one is 4 pt TD the other is 6. In both the numbers are higher than yours.. Guessing your league penalizes INTs more severely or something.

It seems that you want Harrison. That's totally fine.

However I'm not buying the argument that starting a non-QB in the SF slot in anything but an emergency is a good strategy. You can get similar or better points that a top WR will generate with a replacement level QB who is much cheaper to acquire.

Starting MHJR as a WR and Cousins in the SF would be a strong move

This is absolutely true. Unless there is some massive bump in WR scoring and a big penalty on QB scoring, QB is the way. In my leagues, there is a very large dropoff when you talk about high end scoring. In my leagues there were 5 QBs who scored more than the WR1.

In pretty standard settings, a QB1/2 scores about 5 points a game more than an WR1/WR2 respectively. On top of that, QB scoring is much easier to predict because there are literally only 32 max at any given point. It's hard to miss by starting a QB as SF unless you are rolling out a bum like Z Wilson, AOC, or Pickett.

[wickerkat1212]

Well the answer is PPG. In 4pt/TD, PPR - Baker, Wilson, Stafford, Howell outscored JJ on a PPG basis last year.

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

Regardless of high scoring, it makes QBs basically equal as they cancel themselves out. You have enough of these guys and you don’t want to be overly focused on having to draft another one at 1.02.

Well and maybe part of this is that it's harder to draft a top 15 qb than a top 15 wr? I mean we HOPE there are four in this year's draft, but in Superflex, they go very early. You can find WRs in the 2nd, 3rd, even later (see Puka). But if you don't have a top first round pick, you're praying a Nix/Penix can actually start. So, they ARE harder to get. Even some NFL 1st round QBs bust.

[wickerkat1212]

Well the answer is PPG. In 4pt/TD, PPR - Baker, Wilson, Stafford, Howell outscored JJ on a PPG basis last year.

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

I checked two of my leagues that have relatively basic scoring - one is 4 pt TD the other is 6. In both the numbers are higher than yours.. Guessing your league penalizes INTs more severely or something.

It seems that you want Harrison. That's totally fine.

However I'm not buying the argument that starting a non-QB in the SF slot in anything but an emergency is a good strategy. You can get similar or better points that a top WR will generate with a replacement level QB who is much cheaper to acquire.

Starting MHJR as a WR and Cousins in the SF would be a strong move

LOL thanks for all of this. Yeah, I'm big on Harrison, and seems like I will be starting him with Cousins, so that all bodes well. Appreciate the discussion. If I was in love with Daniels, the way I really dig Caleb (or Maye) I'd probably pull the trigger. I wanted to come out of all four of my drafts with as many shares of CW, Harrison, Nabers, and Bowers that I could get. I don't have the right picks or ammo in every league, but I'd be happy to get Harrison/Bowers in this one.

[wickerkat1212]

Ours is 6 PT PER TD

Baker 18.9 PPG
Stafford 17.9 PPG
Howell 15.7 PPG

Jefferson 18.4

There were 18 QBs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Allen #1 at 24 PPG.
But there were also 19 WRs that averaged more than 15 PPG, Hill #1 at 23 PPG.
With TEP there were only EIGHT TEs that averaged more than 15 PPG, with Hock #1 at 20 PPG.

So, if Harrison can become a Top-20 WR (and he should) he can be worth as much as a QB.
But you have to have players (QB, WR, TE) that are in the top 20.

FWIW there were only 13 RBS that averaged 15+ PPG, with CMC at the top, with 24 PPG.

I checked two of my leagues that have relatively basic scoring - one is 4 pt TD the other is 6. In both the numbers are higher than yours.. Guessing your league penalizes INTs more severely or something.

It seems that you want Harrison. That's totally fine.

However I'm not buying the argument that starting a non-QB in the SF slot in anything but an emergency is a good strategy. You can get similar or better points that a top WR will generate with a replacement level QB who is much cheaper to acquire.

Starting MHJR as a WR and Cousins in the SF would be a strong move

This is absolutely true. Unless there is some massive bump in WR scoring and a big penalty on QB scoring, QB is the way. In my leagues, there is a very large dropoff when you talk about high end scoring. In my leagues there were 5 QBs who scored more than the WR1.

In pretty standard settings, a QB1/2 scores about 5 points a game more than an WR1/WR2 respectively. On top of that, QB scoring is much easier to predict because there are literally only 32 max at any given point. It's hard to miss by starting a QB as SF unless you are rolling out a bum like Z Wilson, AOC, or Pickett.

Right. I'm not saying it's ideal, just that it might not cripple me. The difference between a Cousins and a Tyreek may not be much (if anything). Now a difference between a Cousins and JSN or Downs or Higgins, it might be more. Most of my leagues don't come down to a few points getting the win, but sure, it happens.

Thanks.

[NathanielWegman]

If you can get those 3 picks I’d make the deal especially when rebuilding a roster. I like those 3 picks better than just the 1.11

I’ve got several guys in that 10-20 range that I would choose anywhere after the 5th pick so the value is in those picks.