Jerry Jeudy Official Thread

[Cameron Giles]

Wouldn’t argue 94 total yards in 3 additional games as a real solid metric if we are going to really put it in perspective.

No one is Arguing Sutton isn’t good or well utilized in their system.

Even though Evans played in 3 less games he only had 6 less targets.. But that's also why I didn't quote his raw numbers, and just spoke about his efficiency.

He was even worse in the YAC department in 2018 where he posted 2 YAC/R.

Evans is just not good at YAC, which is completely fine given his skillset... but comparing him to Sutton doesn't make much sense to me.

Sure it does. As far as current NFL players, Evans is the absolute best case for WRs who are not high volume separators. Evans has improved significantly as a route runner, but he can't do the things Chris Godwin does. However, Evans is still viewed as the better WR and is currently on pace for a HOF WR career.

There may be differences in Sutton and Evans' games, but if Sutton is ever viewed in the same breath as Evans, that is the absolute best case. Sutton is never going to be a player like Allen, Adams, Thomas, Diggs, prime Antonio Brown, Beckham, etc who separate at high volume.

But again...Jerry Jeudy has a chance to be a player like Keenan Allen or DaVante Adams, where they can run every route, line up anywhere, and get open at will. If that translates for Jeudy, he could be one of the elite route runners and gobble up targets.

Sutton can still be a good fantasy WR, but if you're giving me the choice, I'm taking the 21-year-old advanced route runner who is a better prospect than Sutton.

[Sriracha]

Wouldn’t argue 94 total yards in 3 additional games as a real solid metric if we are going to really put it in perspective.

No one is Arguing Sutton isn’t good or well utilized in their system.

Even though Evans played in 3 less games he only had 6 less targets.. But that's also why I didn't quote his raw numbers, and just spoke about his efficiency.

He was even worse in the YAC department in 2018 where he posted 2 YAC/R.

Evans is just not good at YAC, which is completely fine given his skillset... but comparing him to Sutton doesn't make much sense to me.

Sure it does. As far as current NFL players, Evans is the absolute best case for WRs who are not high volume separators. Evans has improved significantly as a route runner, but he can't do the things Chris Godwin does. However, Evans is still viewed as the better WR and is currently on pace for a HOF WR career.

There may be differences in Sutton and Evans' games, but if Sutton is ever viewed in the same breath as Evans, that is the absolute best case. Sutton is never going to be a player like Allen, Adams, Thomas, Diggs, prime Antonio Brown, Beckham, etc who separate at high volume.

But again...Jerry Jeudy has a chance to be a player like Keenan Allen or DaVante Adams, where they can run every route, line up anywhere, and get open at will. If that translates for Jeudy, he could be one of the elite route runners and gobble up targets.

Sutton can still be a good fantasy WR, but if you're giving me the choice, I'm taking the 21-year-old advanced route runner who is a better prospect than Sutton.

You're saying all elite receivers are elite route runners? Alshon Jeffery (Sutton's closest comp from an athletic profile), Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall?

Sutton's upside is much higher than you're making it out to be because he's good at YAC in addition to having alpha WR traits.

(and to be clear, I'm not counting out Sutton's ability to be an elite route runner given his rate of improvement in that area... but we can agree to disagree on this)

[DLF3000]

Yeah, both Sutton and Jeudy look good - wish I owned both! The real question is whether Lock can make this offense hum or not.

They've got a lot of weapons, and I'm never sure whether that's a good thing from one team to the next when it comes to fantasy. Seems like the answer is always different - look forward to seeing how it plays out!

[Lumps]

Even though Evans played in 3 less games he only had 6 less targets.. But that's also why I didn't quote his raw numbers, and just spoke about his efficiency.

He was even worse in the YAC department in 2018 where he posted 2 YAC/R.

Evans is just not good at YAC, which is completely fine given his skillset... but comparing him to Sutton doesn't make much sense to me.

Sure it does. As far as current NFL players, Evans is the absolute best case for WRs who are not high volume separators. Evans has improved significantly as a route runner, but he can't do the things Chris Godwin does. However, Evans is still viewed as the better WR and is currently on pace for a HOF WR career.

There may be differences in Sutton and Evans' games, but if Sutton is ever viewed in the same breath as Evans, that is the absolute best case. Sutton is never going to be a player like Allen, Adams, Thomas, Diggs, prime Antonio Brown, Beckham, etc who separate at high volume.

But again...Jerry Jeudy has a chance to be a player like Keenan Allen or DaVante Adams, where they can run every route, line up anywhere, and get open at will. If that translates for Jeudy, he could be one of the elite route runners and gobble up targets.

Sutton can still be a good fantasy WR, but if you're giving me the choice, I'm taking the 21-year-old advanced route runner who is a better prospect than Sutton.

You're saying all elite receivers are elite route runners? Alshon Jeffery (Sutton's closest comp from an athletic profile), Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall?

I’m not going to enter the “Sutton can/can’t learn to run routes“ argument, because saying something so black and white as that is never correct.

But...

1. Alshon is NOT elite, he’s also proven to have fallen off dramatically
2. Dez had 3 elite years. I was just shocked to see he is STILL ONLY 31!!
3. DT’s elite years were with arguably the 1st to 3rd best QB of all time. I was shocked to see he is STILL ONLY 32!!
4. Brandon Marshall belongs in the same category of freak as Evans IMO. He had sustained success and elite years.

I don’t think these examples prove the point you are after. If anything, they prove without elite QB play these kinds of WRs will fall off and be useless at a significantly earlier age than separators.

[mild]

Yeah, both Sutton and Jeudy look good - wish I owned both! The real question is whether Lock can make this offense hum or not.

They've got a lot of weapons, and I'm never sure whether that's a good thing from one team to the next when it comes to fantasy. Seems like the answer is always different - look forward to seeing how it plays out!

I actually do own both! Can confirm it is a wonderful feeling... that quickly turns to mild panic when I think about whether Drew Lock is a good quarterback or not. OH WELL. Can't wait to find out.

Imagine owning Jeudy, Sutton and Fant. You'd be white-knuckling the first Broncos kick off

[Cameron Giles]

You're saying all elite receivers are elite route runners? Alshon Jeffery (Sutton's closest comp from an athletic profile), Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall?

Sutton's upside is much higher than you're making it out to be because he's good at YAC in addition to having alpha WR traits.

(and to be clear, I'm not counting out Sutton's ability to be an elite route runner given his rate of improvement in that area... but we can agree to disagree on this)

I'm not saying that Sutton has peaked or that he can't continue to be a good WR long-term. I'm simply saying that I do not see him becoming an elite all-around route runner or separator, and because of that, I would prefer to have Jerry Jeudy because he can be that AND he's a better prospect.

Can Sutton become an elite WR? I don't personally think he will be, but it's possible and I laid that path out to you. A Mike Evans-perceived player is the best case (current) scenario. Evans is an elite WR, who isn't great on every route, but is such a freak of nature, that he makes up for it in other ways.

[Sriracha]

Sure it does. As far as current NFL players, Evans is the absolute best case for WRs who are not high volume separators. Evans has improved significantly as a route runner, but he can't do the things Chris Godwin does. However, Evans is still viewed as the better WR and is currently on pace for a HOF WR career.

There may be differences in Sutton and Evans' games, but if Sutton is ever viewed in the same breath as Evans, that is the absolute best case. Sutton is never going to be a player like Allen, Adams, Thomas, Diggs, prime Antonio Brown, Beckham, etc who separate at high volume.

But again...Jerry Jeudy has a chance to be a player like Keenan Allen or DaVante Adams, where they can run every route, line up anywhere, and get open at will. If that translates for Jeudy, he could be one of the elite route runners and gobble up targets.

Sutton can still be a good fantasy WR, but if you're giving me the choice, I'm taking the 21-year-old advanced route runner who is a better prospect than Sutton.

You're saying all elite receivers are elite route runners? Alshon Jeffery (Sutton's closest comp from an athletic profile), Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall?

I’m not going to enter the “Sutton can/can’t learn to run routes“ argument, because saying something so black and white as that is never correct.

But...

1. Alshon is NOT elite, he’s also proven to have fallen off dramatically
2. Dez had 3 elite years. I was just shocked to see he is STILL ONLY 31!!
3. DT’s elite years were with arguably the 1st to 3rd best QB of all time. I was shocked to see he is STILL ONLY 32!!
4. Brandon Marshall belongs in the same category of freak as Evans IMO. He had sustained success and elite years.

I don’t think these examples prove the point you are after. If anything, they prove without elite QB play these kinds of WRs will fall off and be useless at a significantly earlier age than separators.

Alshon's been hampered by injuries.. but I completely disagree that he wasn't elite before they sapped away his athleticism.
Dez was a top 3 WR for years then fell off because Dak wouldn't throw him the ball. An elite WR needs a QB that meshes with his game, this is true of every WR regardless of archetype. Amari Cooper with Derek Carr is on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Mike Evan's numbers look good at the end of the year.. but he's a maddeningly inconsistent producer.. because he's bad at YAC. YAC increases a WR's floor and consistency. Evans lives and dies by the deep ball.

We have the benefit of hindsight when judging these players, but some of the other players he's mentioned:
OBJ "only had 3 elite years" so far
Davante Adams has only had 1 1,000 yard season 6 years into his career and has played with the GOAT most of his career

Seems like nit picking to discount these WR's for the reasons you stated when he's propping up these guys who've largely been helped in similar ways.

[Sriracha]

You're saying all elite receivers are elite route runners? Alshon Jeffery (Sutton's closest comp from an athletic profile), Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall?

Sutton's upside is much higher than you're making it out to be because he's good at YAC in addition to having alpha WR traits.

(and to be clear, I'm not counting out Sutton's ability to be an elite route runner given his rate of improvement in that area... but we can agree to disagree on this)

I'm not saying that Sutton has peaked or that he can't continue to be a good WR long-term. I'm simply saying that I do not see him becoming an elite all-around route runner or separator, and because of that, I would prefer to have Jerry Jeudy because he can be that AND he's a better prospect.

Can Sutton become an elite WR? I don't personally think he will be, but it's possible and I laid that path out to you. A Mike Evans-perceived player is the best case (current) scenario. Evans is an elite WR, who isn't great on every route, but is such a freak of nature, that he makes up for it in other ways.

Agree to disagree. I will take the WR who's already proven he belongs in the NFL and has elite upside over any WR prospect who isn't Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green. One thing every elite route running WR you've mentioned has in common - the ability to win at the catch point. You can marginalize how important this trait is but I personally think it's a necessity to break into the elite WR tier. It's why Amari Cooper disappears vs elite CBs who don't fall for his myriad of head fakes and other moves that make people say he's a fantastic route runner.

[YouMightDieTryin]

Davante Adams has only had 1 1,000 yard season 6 years into his career and has played with the GOAT most of his career

Weak and unfair (albeit true) stats.

2014 GB 16 11 38 446
2015 GB 13 12 50 483
2016 GB 16 15 75 997
2017 GB 14 14 74 885
2018 GB 15 15 111 1,386
2019 GB 12 12 83 997
Total 86 79 431 5,194

997 TWICE. 2017 was without Rodgers and still had 885. The stats don't tell the whole story.

[Lumps]

You're saying all elite receivers are elite route runners? Alshon Jeffery (Sutton's closest comp from an athletic profile), Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall?

I’m not going to enter the “Sutton can/can’t learn to run routes“ argument, because saying something so black and white as that is never correct.

But...

1. Alshon is NOT elite, he’s also proven to have fallen off dramatically
2. Dez had 3 elite years. I was just shocked to see he is STILL ONLY 31!!
3. DT’s elite years were with arguably the 1st to 3rd best QB of all time. I was shocked to see he is STILL ONLY 32!!
4. Brandon Marshall belongs in the same category of freak as Evans IMO. He had sustained success and elite years.

I don’t think these examples prove the point you are after. If anything, they prove without elite QB play these kinds of WRs will fall off and be useless at a significantly earlier age than separators.

Alshon's been hampered by injuries.. but I completely disagree that he wasn't elite before they sapped away his athleticism.
Dez was a top 3 WR for years then fell off because Dak wouldn't throw him the ball. An elite WR needs a QB that meshes with his game, this is true of every WR regardless of archetype. Amari Cooper with Derek Carr is on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Mike Evan's numbers look good at the end of the year.. but he's a maddeningly inconsistent producer.. because he's bad at YAC. YAC increases a WR's floor and consistency. Evans lives and dies by the deep ball.

We have the benefit of hindsight when judging these players, but some of the other players he's mentioned:
OBJ "only had 3 elite years" so far
Davante Adams has only had 1 1,000 yard season 6 years into his career and has played with the GOAT most of his career

Seems like nit picking to discount these WR's for the reasons you stated when he's propping up these guys who've largely been helped in similar ways.

I didn’t see the other examples I don’t think, as I grow weary of the kind of bickering I’m seeing around here again. I typically read the last page of a thread at this point. But I’ve hopped in here a couple times.

Definitely, don’t need to school me on Adams as a Packers fan. I was pissed we didn’t take ARob while watching the draft. I think looking back Robinson was likely still the correct choice.

I think we can all agree OBJ’s issues are far from related to ability or athleticism. Your point remains.

Disagree on Dez. There’s a reason he isn’t in the league anymore. Or that DT isn’t effective any more.

I’m not even taking a side on this (I own a single share of Jeudy and none of Sutton). My point was that I don’t think the examples you provided are helping you. They almost point to a very short productive life if anything. But I suppose if someone like AB tore his Achilles (like DT, though he had all his productive years after it 🧐) he might lose his separation ability.

[Ice]

Alshon's been hampered by injuries.. but I completely disagree that he wasn't elite before they sapped away his athleticism.

Dez was a top 3 WR for years then fell off because Dak wouldn't throw him the ball.

Who is They?

Maybe Dak didn't throw the ball because the better QB's like to throw to players that can actually get open.

These two examples don't help you. Both WR's obviously lost a step. It wasn't THEY or DAK that deserve blame. Both did have a few very good years; That part was true.

I actually think the Adams comments are pretty solid. He is a player Jeudy should aspire to in route acumen. Adams is fantastic when he is on the field. His issue is staying on the field. He has never started 16 games in a regular season but he is one of the best WR's in the game in intermediate and red zone routes.

[Ruggenater]

Alshon's been hampered by injuries.. but I completely disagree that he wasn't elite before they sapped away his athleticism.

Dez was a top 3 WR for years then fell off because Dak wouldn't throw him the ball.

Who is They?

Maybe Dak didn't throw the ball because the better QB's like to throw to players that can actually get open.

These two examples don't help you. Both WR's obviously lost a step. It wasn't THEY or DAK that deserve blame. Both did have a few very good years; That part was true.

I actually think the Adams comments are pretty solid. He is a player Jeudy should aspire to in route acumen. Adams is fantastic when he is on the field. His issue is staying on the field. He has never started 16 games in a regular season but he is one of the best WR's in the game in intermediate and red zone routes.

“They” refers to the injuries, I’m pretty sure

[Ice]

Alshon's been hampered by injuries.. but I completely disagree that he wasn't elite before they sapped away his athleticism.

Dez was a top 3 WR for years then fell off because Dak wouldn't throw him the ball.

Who is They?

Maybe Dak didn't throw the ball because the better QB's like to throw to players that can actually get open.

These two examples don't help you. Both WR's obviously lost a step. It wasn't THEY or DAK that deserve blame. Both did have a few very good years; That part was true.

I actually think the Adams comments are pretty solid. He is a player Jeudy should aspire to in route acumen. Adams is fantastic when he is on the field. His issue is staying on the field. He has never started 16 games in a regular season but he is one of the best WR's in the game in intermediate and red zone routes.

“They” refers to the injuries, I’m pretty sure

Ahh; Interesting word choice given the definition.

[Cameron Giles]

Agree to disagree. I will take the WR who's already proven he belongs in the NFL and has elite upside over any WR prospect who isn't Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green. One thing every elite route running WR you've mentioned has in common - the ability to win at the catch point. You can marginalize how important this trait is but I personally think it's a necessity to break into the elite WR tier. It's why Amari Cooper disappears vs elite CBs who don't fall for his myriad of head fakes and other moves that make people say he's a fantastic route runner.

I gave you stats to support my stance.

At absolute best, on average a WR might catch 1 contested catch a game. It's a low volume play, that does not account for a large percentage of anyone's receptions. It is simply an X-factor.

If you're not getting open against elite corners, nobody is going to throw you 10 contested catch opportunities. Separation and route running are simply more valuable skills than contested catches.

[Sriracha]

Agree to disagree. I will take the WR who's already proven he belongs in the NFL and has elite upside over any WR prospect who isn't Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green. One thing every elite route running WR you've mentioned has in common - the ability to win at the catch point. You can marginalize how important this trait is but I personally think it's a necessity to break into the elite WR tier. It's why Amari Cooper disappears vs elite CBs who don't fall for his myriad of head fakes and other moves that make people say he's a fantastic route runner.

I gave you stats to support my stance.

At absolute best, on average a WR might catch 1 contested catch a game. It's a low volume play, that does not account for a large percentage of anyone's receptions. It is simply an X-factor.

If you're not getting open against elite corners, nobody is going to throw you 10 contested catch opportunities. Separation and route running are simply more valuable skills than contested catches.

Contested catches can't be the only thing you excel at, but they are important. The NFL is a game of inches. 1 catch a game is huge, especially when contested catches are usually deeper downfield or in the red zone (and are thus more valuable).

Separation is important and I have no doubt Jeudy will be at least somewhat productive in the NFL because of it.. but just being an elite separator is not enough to be an elite WR. If Jeudy does not improve in contested catch situations I don't see the upside you think he has.