All Things Bears
Re: All Things Bears
Feels like DJM has been forgotten. I keep hearing about Odunze and Keenan this and Keenan that. Will be very interesting to watch this unfold
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OnlineBronco Billy
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Re: All Things Bears
I’m expecting GB to do that tonight. They’ve got 4 picks and I’m hoping they strengthen the middle of the field. They’ve got the edges in pretty good shape, especially now that it looks like they may have Alexander’s head right.MacDaddy123 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:29 amI think NFC North will be more interesting now, not sure they are to be feared just yet.Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:13 am NFC Norse is looking like a seriously formidable division. Ought to be some really entertaining interdivisional games this year and other divisions aren’t going to be happy when it’s their year to catch the NFCN.
Gotta strengthen them defenses.
Still miles ahead of the NFC South though.
Re: All Things Bears
New toy talk.
DJ is pretty darn good. If he got 1400 with fields he should have at least 1800 with Caleb.
12 Team, 1QB, 3WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1Flex, D, K, 10 Bench
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
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OnlineBronco Billy
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Re: All Things Bears
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wickerkat1212
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Re: All Things Bears
I've come back around on Bowers, and think it's more deadly for Mayer than Bowers. And no, I don't think Odunze will put up 1000 his rookie year, but 800 seems possible. I could see—
DJM 1000
Allen 800
Odunze 800
Kmet 500
Everett 300
Swift 500
The rest scraps
This is going to be the DJM, Allen, Odunze show with Kmet and Swift picking up the rest. I'm stoked.
4,000 isn't even that crazy a number: 250 x 17 = 4,250. But if he can only get to 3,500 rookie year, that's fine too. I have the win O/U at 10 right now. And I might take the over.
DJM 1000
Allen 800
Odunze 800
Kmet 500
Everett 300
Swift 500
The rest scraps
This is going to be the DJM, Allen, Odunze show with Kmet and Swift picking up the rest. I'm stoked.
4,000 isn't even that crazy a number: 250 x 17 = 4,250. But if he can only get to 3,500 rookie year, that's fine too. I have the win O/U at 10 right now. And I might take the over.
D3:
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
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wickerkat1212
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Re: All Things Bears
Here's a question for you—
Do the Bears have the best WR trio in the NFL now? I think that's a legitimate question.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/rank ... ggs-trade/
Do the Bears have the best WR trio in the NFL now? I think that's a legitimate question.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/rank ... ggs-trade/
D3:
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
Re: All Things Bears
Maybe. Niners are still goodwickerkat1212 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:33 am Here's a question for you—
Do the Bears have the best WR trio in the NFL now? I think that's a legitimate question.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/rank ... ggs-trade/
12 Team, 1QB, 3WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1Flex, D, K, 10 Bench
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
Re: All Things Bears
Coming around. I like itBronco Billy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:28 amFTFY
12 Team, 1QB, 3WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1Flex, D, K, 10 Bench
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
Re: All Things Bears
Houston still my vote. Then SF if they keep all 3. Then I’ll let the Bears faithful jump in.
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" Abe Lincoln
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wickerkat1212
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Re: All Things Bears
Right on. Wherever you rank them, it's a great trio and massive upgrade over last year.
D3:
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
Re: All Things Bears
Undeniably true.wickerkat1212 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:39 am Right on. Wherever you rank them, it's a great trio and massive upgrade over last year.
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" Abe Lincoln
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wickerkat1212
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Re: All Things Bears
This is a guy that didn't want to come to Chicago? Love it.
D3:
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
Re: All Things Bears
Bears draft a punter in the 4th round as their last pick? Really?
Team 1
Dynasty 10 team, 22 roster + 6 Taxi, PPR
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def
QB: Love, Goff, Fields
RB: Bijan, Montgomery, Kamara, Ford, K Herbert, Zeke, Mattison
WR: Jefferson, Olave, London, Ridley, Sutton, Shaheed
TE: Kincaid, Kittle, Freiermuth
K: Tucker, Sanders
DEF: CLE
Taxi: Charbs, K Mitchell, Demercado, QJ, D Douglas, W Robinson, Hooker
Picks
2024: 1.03, 3.06, 3.09, 4.09
2025: 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Team 2
Dynasty 10 team, 22 man roster + 6 Taxi, PPR, SF and TEP
1QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 1 S Flex
QB: Allen, Goff, Watson, Jones
RB: K Williams, B Robinson, Chubb, Ford, Mostert, A Gibson, Dillon, Pierce, Zeke
WR: Olave, T Hill, Addison, D Adams, C Watson, D Johnson, G Davis, OBJ
TE: Kincaid, Kmet, Goedert
Taxi: Mitchell, DTR, Mims, K Miller, Douglas, Vaughn
Picks
2024: 1.08, 3.02, 3.09
2025: 1, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5
Dynasty 10 team, 22 roster + 6 Taxi, PPR
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def
QB: Love, Goff, Fields
RB: Bijan, Montgomery, Kamara, Ford, K Herbert, Zeke, Mattison
WR: Jefferson, Olave, London, Ridley, Sutton, Shaheed
TE: Kincaid, Kittle, Freiermuth
K: Tucker, Sanders
DEF: CLE
Taxi: Charbs, K Mitchell, Demercado, QJ, D Douglas, W Robinson, Hooker
Picks
2024: 1.03, 3.06, 3.09, 4.09
2025: 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Team 2
Dynasty 10 team, 22 man roster + 6 Taxi, PPR, SF and TEP
1QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 1 S Flex
QB: Allen, Goff, Watson, Jones
RB: K Williams, B Robinson, Chubb, Ford, Mostert, A Gibson, Dillon, Pierce, Zeke
WR: Olave, T Hill, Addison, D Adams, C Watson, D Johnson, G Davis, OBJ
TE: Kincaid, Kmet, Goedert
Taxi: Mitchell, DTR, Mims, K Miller, Douglas, Vaughn
Picks
2024: 1.08, 3.02, 3.09
2025: 1, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5
Re: All Things Bears
Better then a development tackle on the 3rd. I would have gone edge there
At least it wasn't a raiders kicking draft
12 Team, 1QB, 3WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1Flex, D, K, 10 Bench
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
1PPR, 0.5 point per carry.
Burrow, Richardson
AJ Brown, DJMoore, G Wilson, T Higgens, Sutton, Tillman, Melton
King Henry, Bijan, Pacheco, Mixon, Ford, JK
Hockenson, Musgrave
Random Kicker
Niners
Picks in 2024 - #15, #22, #23, #27
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wickerkat1212
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Re: All Things Bears
I love it. Gill was terrible and Poles obviously feels the guys left are trash.
D3:
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL
D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, BENSON (R), Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, POLK (R), CORLEY (R), Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT
Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield, RATTLER (R) RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Mostert, BRob, ESTIME (R) WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Lockett, Myers, COWING (R), MWASHINGTON (R) TE—Kmet, Kraft, SANDERS (R), Conklin, Hurst PK—Elliott DEF—PHI
Superflex 2:
QB: MAYE (R), Goff, Cousins, PENIX (R), Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: HARRISON (R), DJM, Higgins, JSN, BTHOMAS (R), Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, DPJ, Devante TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble
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