Pat Freiermuth

[jomaed]

Did not see a thread for Pat. Seems to be progressing nicely in his sophomore season. Currently TE #7 on the year on a very bad Pittsburgh offense. I honestly have not seen many Pittsburgh game last or this year. Does Freiermuth seem like a player than can keep climbing (become a top 3 TE), or are we seeing what he is now? I would guess improving in the YAC category is something that he needs to get there.

[gpaok]

I agree, there was hope he would have a nice year 2 jump, but I feel like Trubisky was limiting him a lot! With the QB change I feel like his production might go up even more! Is he the next Kelce? Probably not but who knows! I feel like he might be in the range of Hockenson in terms of rankings (so TE4-5?) by end of year while he seems to do more with less targets.

[Jigga94]

I agree, there was hope he would have a nice year 2 jump, but I feel like Trubisky was limiting him a lot! With the QB change I feel like his production might go up even more! Is he the next Kelce? Probably not but who knows! I feel like he might be in the range of Hockenson in terms of rankings (so TE4-5?) by end of year while he seems to do more with less targets.

While I do think Trubisky was limiting the offense as a whole, I think Pat was a beneficiary. Bad/backup Qb tend to look for more check downs/over the middle throws. Usually TE/RB get more looks from my experience.

That's not to say Pickett won't target these receivers the same way, but I would expect Pickens to siphon off some targets and it may hurt Pat. There may be more opportunities for the offense though if Pickett keeps the ball moving downfield so it all my be moot.

Targets so far
Diontae 37 - 29%
Pat F 30 - 24%
Pickens 20 - 16%
Claypool 20 - 16%

I also think Pat may just be this good. He's been in that TE6-8 range for me (with Schultz/Goedert) since last year and it seemed like he was the most likely to take that jump at TE. So while the numbers are great right now, there may be a slight drop off with the QB change, but I still think Pat is a top 6 TE, behind Andrews, Kelce, Pitts, Kittle and maybe Hock. I don't think he ever pushes the top tier of dynasty TE but he's still very young

[waynesworld1234]

He seems like a buy to me over the other top TEs. He’ll be discounted comparatively, he’s still young, and he’s producing this year. What else would you want?

[Jigga94]

He seems like a buy to me over the other top TEs. He’ll be discounted comparatively, he’s still young, and he’s producing this year. What else would you want?

Yeah I never usually like buying at the peak either.

If you take trade calculators with a massive grain of salt, here's what they say would be fair offer for Pat

Amari
Jacobs
Fields (SF)
Late 1st

If you had say Pitts for example and wanted to tier down to Pat you could net

DJM
Pickett (SF)
Kenneth Walker
Kittle
Late 1st

[gpaok]

He seems like a buy to me over the other top TEs. He’ll be discounted comparatively, he’s still young, and he’s producing this year. What else would you want?

Yeah I never usually like buying at the peak either.

If you take trade calculators with a massive grain of salt, here's what they say would be fair offer for Pat

Amari
Jacobs
Fields (SF)
Late 1st

If you had say Pitts for example and wanted to tier down to Pat you could net

DJM
Pickett (SF)
Kenneth Walker
Kittle
Late 1st

That’s interesting! I don’t know if I would offer that for Pitts now, but seems like ones stock is dropping and Pat is rising.

[gpaok]

I agree, there was hope he would have a nice year 2 jump, but I feel like Trubisky was limiting him a lot! With the QB change I feel like his production might go up even more! Is he the next Kelce? Probably not but who knows! I feel like he might be in the range of Hockenson in terms of rankings (so TE4-5?) by end of year while he seems to do more with less targets.

While I do think Trubisky was limiting the offense as a whole, I think Pat was a beneficiary. Bad/backup Qb tend to look for more check downs/over the middle throws. Usually TE/RB get more looks from my experience.

That's not to say Pickett won't target these receivers the same way, but I would expect Pickens to siphon off some targets and it may hurt Pat. There may be more opportunities for the offense though if Pickett keeps the ball moving downfield so it all my be moot.

Targets so far
Diontae 37 - 29%
Pat F 30 - 24%
Pickens 20 - 16%
Claypool 20 - 16%

I also think Pat may just be this good. He's been in that TE6-8 range for me (with Schultz/Goedert) since last year and it seemed like he was the most likely to take that jump at TE. So while the numbers are great right now, there may be a slight drop off with the QB change, but I still think Pat is a top 6 TE, behind Andrews, Kelce, Pitts, Kittle and maybe Hock. I don't think he ever pushes the top tier of dynasty TE but he's still very young

I agree that Pickett might look less in the middle percentage wise, but like you said he should keep the offense more in which I think will give more opportunities.

Another aspect is that Pickett might try to run the ball on short and Goal - which initially I was thinking would go more to Pat but that is to be seen.

[mgscott]

It's a very small sample size but Pickens and Pat F tied with the most targets from Pickett once he entered the game with 4. Dointe and Claypool only had 2 targets each.

[Space Cowboy]

He's as good as anyone outside of the elite few. The elite crew is getting smaller with Kittle and Waller not producing.

[PigeonBoys]

He's as good as anyone outside of the elite few. The elite crew is getting smaller with Kittle and Waller not producing.

Do you feel like he has surpassed Waller? He is 7 years younger and already putting up similar numbers on the year in a much less effective offense. I feel like Davante put an end to Waller being considered a top tier TE, he also hasn't looked explosive for a couple years now. I have been throwing around the idea of sending Waller + for Muth as I don't want to get caught with an aging Waller not being able to get anything back for him.

[mild]

He's as good as anyone outside of the elite few. The elite crew is getting smaller with Kittle and Waller not producing.

Do you feel like he has surpassed Waller? He is 7 years younger and already putting up similar numbers on the year in a much less effective offense. I feel like Davante put an end to Waller being considered a top tier TE, he also hasn't looked explosive for a couple years now. I have been throwing around the idea of sending Waller + for Muth as I don't want to get caught with an aging Waller not being able to get anything back for him.

I'd make that trade in a second. Waller has looked truly awful, and the Muth is on the rise.

[Jigga94]

He's as good as anyone outside of the elite few. The elite crew is getting smaller with Kittle and Waller not producing.

Do you feel like he has surpassed Waller? He is 7 years younger and already putting up similar numbers on the year in a much less effective offense. I feel like Davante put an end to Waller being considered a top tier TE, he also hasn't looked explosive for a couple years now. I have been throwing around the idea of sending Waller + for Muth as I don't want to get caught with an aging Waller not being able to get anything back for him.

I'd make that trade in a second. Waller has looked truly awful, and the Muth is on the rise.

x2

[Cameron Giles]

I'm not sold that he has an elite ceiling. Strikes me as a Hunter Henry type, where he's solid and doesn't seem to have any detrimental holes to his game, but isn't really spectacular. Still, he's on the map as a TE1 going forward.

[Patsfan86]

I traded a most likely late 2023 first (I had 5 of them) and Irv Smith for Friermuth and got lambasted by some leaguemates for it calling it a bad overpay because KTC said it’s bad Perhaps it’s an overpay but Muth is one of the few TEs that puts up consistent points and isn’t TD dependent. Will he win you games? Most likely not but he will a few tlmes a year, will he lose you games? No. That’s what the TE spot is right now in this wasteland. And again he scores points without having to score TDs that’s very valuable in this TE landscape. I also think there is a chance he ascends to the Andrews Kelce tier. Most likely not but it’s a possibility

[jomaed]

I'm not sold that he has an elite ceiling. Strikes me as a Hunter Henry type, where he's solid and doesn't seem to have any detrimental holes to his game, but isn't really spectacular. Still, he's on the map as a TE1 going forward.

This is the vibe I am getting so far. Still very positive he is showing well this early on.