2022 Coaching Carousel

[Cameron Giles]

Your optics around the Texans coach are just that.....your optics.

I haven't seen DeMaurice Smith weigh in on Culley who heads up 100% of the players regardless of race.

I do think the NFL will hire a more diverse group as time goes by. Last year, I believe there were 5 minority head coaches.

Yes, and plenty of others share those optics, and they've been discussed heavily today. A lot of people are hoping they get it right, though they aren't any closer to doing that right now.

[Ice]

Your optics around the Texans coach are just that.....your optics.

I haven't seen DeMaurice Smith weigh in on Culley who heads up 100% of the players regardless of race.

I do think the NFL will hire a more diverse group as time goes by. Last year, I believe there were 5 minority head coaches.

Yes, and plenty of others share those optics, and they've been discussed heavily today. A lot of people are hoping they get it right, though they aren't any closer to doing that right now.

Not sure who they are but I do not disagree that many view this as you do.

[FantasyFreak]

I see no evidence Culley was hired or fired for being black. I see a respected coach with a long career of success.

Teams should higher the best candidates regardless of race.

You're replying with statements that I haven't said. I never said he was hired or fired because he is black. I said that firing him after saddling him with a terrible situation is bad optics for a league that lacks diversity in their coaching hires and supposedly is trying to improve on that.

Once again: Firing Culley after giving him a Bottom-2 roster after one season is bad optics for a league that lacks diverse coaching hires.

Representation on the sidelines and in the front office absolutely matters, especially in a league where the players are 70% black.

That doesn't mean hiring Brian the Ballboy as your GM because he's a minority.

Pretty sure one of the main reasons he was fired was due to the complaints of the players, in regards to in game communications and decision making. I don't think it's bad optics. If he went .500 with that bad roster and the players were singing his praise (instead of the opposite), then it would be bad optics. Not sure what "getting it right" means, but I have a hard time believing Culley was let go for anything other than football reasons. I seem to recall it being thought as a very questionable hire based on his resume, or lack thereof. The fact that Culley wasn't a good head coach isn't surprising in the least. I don't think many expected him to last. I would not be surprised at all if Flores ends up there, when all is said and done, with the familiarity between the GM and coach.

[Cameron Giles]

I see no evidence Culley was hired or fired for being black. I see a respected coach with a long career of success.

Teams should higher the best candidates regardless of race.

You're replying with statements that I haven't said. I never said he was hired or fired because he is black. I said that firing him after saddling him with a terrible situation is bad optics for a league that lacks diversity in their coaching hires and supposedly is trying to improve on that.

Once again: Firing Culley after giving him a Bottom-2 roster after one season is bad optics for a league that lacks diverse coaching hires.

Representation on the sidelines and in the front office absolutely matters, especially in a league where the players are 70% black.

That doesn't mean hiring Brian the Ballboy as your GM because he's a minority.

Pretty sure one of the main reasons he was fired was due to the complaints of the players, in regards to in game communications and decision making. I don't think it's bad optics. If he went .500 with that bad roster and the players were singing his praise (instead of the opposite), then it would be bad optics. Not sure what "getting it right" means, but I have a hard time believing Culley was let go for anything other than football reasons. I seem to recall it being thought as a very questionable hire based on his resume, or lack thereof. The fact that Culley wasn't a good head coach isn't surprising in the least. I don't think many expected him to last. I would not be surprised at all if Flores ends up there, when all is said and done, with the familiarity between the GM and coach.

I've never said that Culley was fired for non-football reasons though. I said that his situation is bad optics for a league that's been terrible with diverse coaching hires and front office representation, and the statistics to support that speak loudly year-to-year.

He was put in a bad situation to show his value as a HC. The Texans had a Bottom-2 roster (Detroit being the other) and big questions at QB. Him winning 4 games somehow is surprising. I don't think that's a fair shot to give to any HC.

[FantasyFreak]

You're replying with statements that I haven't said. I never said he was hired or fired because he is black. I said that firing him after saddling him with a terrible situation is bad optics for a league that lacks diversity in their coaching hires and supposedly is trying to improve on that.

Once again: Firing Culley after giving him a Bottom-2 roster after one season is bad optics for a league that lacks diverse coaching hires.

Representation on the sidelines and in the front office absolutely matters, especially in a league where the players are 70% black.

That doesn't mean hiring Brian the Ballboy as your GM because he's a minority.

Pretty sure one of the main reasons he was fired was due to the complaints of the players, in regards to in game communications and decision making. I don't think it's bad optics. If he went .500 with that bad roster and the players were singing his praise (instead of the opposite), then it would be bad optics. Not sure what "getting it right" means, but I have a hard time believing Culley was let go for anything other than football reasons. I seem to recall it being thought as a very questionable hire based on his resume, or lack thereof. The fact that Culley wasn't a good head coach isn't surprising in the least. I don't think many expected him to last. I would not be surprised at all if Flores ends up there, when all is said and done, with the familiarity between the GM and coach.

I've never said that Culley was fired for non-football reasons though. I said that his situation is bad optics for a league that's been terrible with diverse coaching hires and front office representation, and the statistics to support that speak loudly year-to-year.

He was put in a bad situation to show his value as a HC. The Texans had a Bottom-2 roster (Detroit being the other) and big questions at QB. Him winning 4 games somehow is surprising. I don't think that's a fair shot to give to any HC.

Fair enough, and I don't agree that it's bad optics, based on the reasons I already stated. With that I will direct my conversation back more along the lines of the intent of the thread, which is football related issues like offensive/defensive schemes of coaches, and how they will affect the players on our roster. I don't think having a drawn out conversation on race relations and the NFL is appropriate for this forum, personally, so I will leave it at that.

[FantasyFreak]

I remember a year ago people were thinking Joe Brady would be a hot name this off season. Boy did that idea flame out. I am really hoping the Vikings get an offensive minded HC, as someone suggested, because I'd love to see what they could do with a more aggressive philosophy.

[Pac_Eddy]

I remember a year ago people were thinking Joe Brady would be a hot name this off season. Boy did that idea flame out. I am really hoping the Vikings get an offensive minded HC, as someone suggested, because I'd love to see what they could do with a more aggressive philosophy.

I agree. I'd love to see Cousins, JJ, Thielen, and Dalvin Cook in a modern offense. I'm a defense guy though, so another defensive minded HC is ok with me as long as he gets a good offensive coordinator.

[dustyroads]

You're replying with statements that I haven't said. I never said he was hired or fired because he is black. I said that firing him after saddling him with a terrible situation is bad optics for a league that lacks diversity in their coaching hires and supposedly is trying to improve on that.

Once again: Firing Culley after giving him a Bottom-2 roster after one season is bad optics for a league that lacks diverse coaching hires.

Representation on the sidelines and in the front office absolutely matters, especially in a league where the players are 70% black.

That doesn't mean hiring Brian the Ballboy as your GM because he's a minority.

Pretty sure one of the main reasons he was fired was due to the complaints of the players, in regards to in game communications and decision making. I don't think it's bad optics. If he went .500 with that bad roster and the players were singing his praise (instead of the opposite), then it would be bad optics. Not sure what "getting it right" means, but I have a hard time believing Culley was let go for anything other than football reasons. I seem to recall it being thought as a very questionable hire based on his resume, or lack thereof. The fact that Culley wasn't a good head coach isn't surprising in the least. I don't think many expected him to last. I would not be surprised at all if Flores ends up there, when all is said and done, with the familiarity between the GM and coach.

I've never said that Culley was fired for non-football reasons though. I said that his situation is bad optics for a league that's been terrible with diverse coaching hires and front office representation, and the statistics to support that speak loudly year-to-year.

He was put in a bad situation to show his value as a HC. The Texans had a Bottom-2 roster (Detroit being the other) and big questions at QB. Him winning 4 games somehow is surprising. I don't think that's a fair shot to give to any HC.

I think some of the disconnect here Cam is the logical syllogism of the arguments here. What I bolded is true, but would be true for any coach put in that situation, regardless of race. I think we all agree it was a crap situation for whoever they hired. So to purport that it is bad optics to fire a black coach who did reasonably well despite the crap circumstances (mostly because of the racial disparity issues among head coaching positions that have been present in the league for a long time now), we'd also have to say it would have been bad optics to avoid hiring a black coach in the first place so that they could ultimately avoid the bad optics when they later fired him. Feel me? There really is no "right" answer on this. The Texans could/will come out looking bad regardless of their choices because of the larger issues present in the league. I can't say whether that is right or wrong; and I understand your point of how it looks. But I think when having these discussions, an emphasis should always be on the "so what then?" What was the better path? Was there one? I don't think any of these situations will ever have a definitive "this was the right move" call until the overarching issues are addressed in a more concrete way.

Where I wind up falling on this whole thing is the Texans aren't a well run organization (shocker right? lol). During their coaching search I was already getting the vibe they were selling out on this season, and a lot of their actions prior to and during the season reinforced this. I felt whoever they hired was going to be a place holder, to be made the sacrificial lamb at the end of the season. I could be remembering wrong, but I thought during one of his initial pressers after being hired, Culley himself eluded to this saying something like "I'm just happy I can tell my grandkids one day that I got to coach an NFL team for a season". However, I also think based on more recent pressers, his view on this changed by the EoS. I thought he seemed to believe his performance this year earned him enough slack to keep his job at least another year, at least the way he was talking he seemed to now think he would be there more than one year. But nothing really changed for the Texans; they still got rid of him, like they planned all along (my feelings at least).

To flip the script on it, and I know this may feel like an uncomfortable thing to say and not saying it's how I feel, but a valid argument could be made that it was actually good optics the Texans gave their "one year placeholder" position to a minority coach who never had a chance before, than some retread white coach we already know stinks; a la Adam Gase or the like. Looking at public/popular opinion, especially in the media, there is some outrage over the firing. What Culley was able to do is being praised, he is being talked about in a positive light, and he will likely wind up getting more opportunities as a result. Again, is this right or wrong? I don't have an answer for that. But sometimes, I don't think their is. It's too intricate to parse out and we start missing the forest for the trees because we all speculate differently about other people's intentions we truly know nothing about. Like how I felt the Texans were going to fire whoever they hired regardless. I could be completely wrong on that, and would then change how the entire thought process flows from there forward.

These conversations tend to not go well, especially on internet message boards. But I agree we shouldn't always go out of our way to avoid them, and appreciate the candor when it can be done without insults/accusations/inflammatory statements. Thanks for that Cam.

[murphysxm]

I see no evidence Culley was hired or fired for being black. I see a respected coach with a long career of success.

Teams should higher the best candidates regardless of race.

Exactly

The problem it is they don't tend to higher the best candidates. Once you are in the "club" you get multiple second chances and new blood has a hard time cracking through. The fact that Bill O'Brien's name is resurfacing disappoints me

[yinzername]

Cameron Giles is not wrong here. Ok, sure, Culley was fired for legit reasons as far as one team's football operations are concerned. This is not the issue. The problem is a 70% black player base, men with countless years of experience combined, or maybe 30/40/50 years of football experience individually; and the NFL can only find ONE qualified person to currently be a head coach? And yes, it seems like Houston (a good ol' boy town if there ever was one) did a minority hire in a situation where they were pretty sure they could have a quick out if/when they desired, wipe there hands, and move on.

it is a bad look. period. if you don't agree than you are on the opposite side from me, and hopefully on the wrong side of history

[dustyroads]

Cameron Giles is not wrong here. Ok, sure, Culley was fired for legit reasons as far as one team's football operations are concerned. This is not the issue. The problem is a 70% black player base, men with countless years of experience combined, or maybe 30/40/50 years of football experience individually; and the NFL can only find ONE qualified person to currently be a head coach? And yes, it seems like Houston (a good ol' boy town if there ever was one) did a minority hire in a situation where they were pretty sure they could have a quick out if/when they desired, wipe there hands, and move on.

it is a bad look. period. if you don't agree than you are on the opposite side from me, and hopefully on the wrong side of history

Lol... reiterating "appreciate the candor when it can be done without insults/accusations/inflammatory statements."

Your post is a good example of why these discussions get little traction and rarely lead to positive outcomes. However I'm sure it must be much more psychologically comforting to live life in black and white (pun not intended), always believing there are on two possibilities, and that the one you choose is the correct one. What I'll never understand is the need to then not only place everyone who isn't lock step with your OPINIONS in a little box you create and attribute to them all the qualities you assign that box; but to audaciously proclaim them as also being definitively "wrong".

It's great to be an activist when the intentions are built around a desire to effect positive change on the world. Not so much when it's a self-serving way to inflate one's own ego. This often winds up being the case when "being right" is more important to an individual than "getting it right". Maybe that's not you, but as an example, insinuating the entire city of Houston is racist will not help any cause. It comes across as inflammatory and self-serving, is obviously false, and alienates everyone from there pushing them further away from a cause you seemingly are trying to get people to rally around. So then I am lead to believe you are either bad at being an activist, or have ulterior motives.

[Ice]

Bottom line: Hiring a coach or firing a coach because of skin color is bad. Saying it is bad optics for the Texans to do it is nuts. Go blame the Dolphins since they just fired one of the best coaches in the league who may actually end up in Houston.

News flash if he goes to Houston it won't be because he is black; It will be because of a past relationship with the the GM who has consolidated his power and knows he is actually a qualified candidate who the vast majority would probably consider an upgrade.

Beating the racist drum is getting really old. Will the league do better than 5 minority head coaches last year in the future???? Maybe but so many getting on a soap box every time a minority gets fired seems like a White/Black thing which is pretty sad IMO.

Yes racists exists and that is bad but thinking Culley's firing is bad optics, whatever that means, is silly. It is bad optics when one believes he was fired for one single reason.

Cully did have plenty issues in the locker room and on the field and as someone stated 70% of the players are black so are we to believe all these issues are because of pigmentation.

No doubt rebuilding the Texans is a huge task considering how bad the GM/Coach was but building it back isn't based on some race issues. Like the other owners, the Texans want to put a great product on the field. They haven't and are searching for ways to make that happen as a huge market team.

I hope Houston hires Flores and it has absolutely nothing to do with his race. He is the best candidate IMO.

As far as Houston being a good ole boy town goes...That is crazy and realmacaroni obviously hasn't gotten out much in this country .......Houston is the 4th largest city in the United States and has one of the most diverse cultures on the planet. BTW, it is also one of the more Liberal cities in the country. Using the city as any justification for your argument.....Really

[kadun2]

So if Flores goes to Houston does Watson stay?

[killer_of_giants]

in a league where 70% of the players are black

this is unacceptable, some of them should be fired in favour of white guys.

[Ice]

So if Flores goes to Houston does Watson stay?

Good question.

I highly doubt it but strange things do happen.. Watson has probably burnt that bridge beyond repair but Flores really likes him. I could see Flores going to Chicago and getting Watson their via a trade or something like that.