Antonio Gibson Rocket Ship - Round 2

[CGW]

Very different situation, Gibson is a rookie with very little NFL experience. Drake was not, many knew what he was but decided to buy into him anyway. Had gibson been in the league for the amount of time Drake has i would not be saying anything about this performance from gibson

I don't think one being a rookie and the other not has anything to do with the conversation being had. Simply "good players" against "bad defenses".
Bot 101 makes a good point.

Dallas' defense is so bad that there were incidents where Cowboys safeties were literally facing the goal line with Wash RBs running behind them, because they have no clue what they are doing out there. Bob Sturm on twitter posted both of the still shots.

Odds are that Bishop Sankey would rack up 100+ yards on this defense, sadly.

Gibson is an excellent buy candidate after the Dallas dust settles for rebuilding teams. He's shown to be an adequate runner, at minimum, but the surrounding talent around him is awful. He won't be a top producer week in and out this season, but with another year of top picks for Wash that will hopefully change and he should be able to take advantage.

How about Trent Richardson?

Probably. Dal is historically bad and Trent did almost rush for 1k his rookie season despite historically bad vision.

I've come around on Gibson quite a bit. He was very raw and unproven coming in, but he's looked like he's improved significantly as a runner. I am baffled as to why they don't use him a bit more as a receiver, but I'm sure that will come.

His owners seem to still value him higher than I'm willing to pay, but I've actively shopped for him in all 3 leagues.

[Factory of Sadness]

The pleasant surprise with Gibson is how well he runs inside and how effective he is after contact. You could see in college that he had the burst to be good in space, but not that he would be a real problem for defences up the gut. His odds of sticking as a feature back keep going up I think, in that he can do short yardage and goal-line, he is an excellent pass catcher and he is a big play threat on the ground. If he proves to be a quick learner and turns out to be sturdy enough to play all year then it's hard to imagine a team with as many offensive needs as the football team investing significant capital at RB. McKissic being a good back in his own right helps Gibson in this regard I think.

[FantasyFreak]

The pleasant surprise with Gibson is how well he runs inside and how effective he is after contact. You could see in college that he had the burst to be good in space, but not that he would be a real problem for defences up the gut. His odds of sticking as a feature back keep going up I think, in that he can do short yardage and goal-line, he is an excellent pass catcher and he is a big play threat on the ground. If he proves to be a quick learner and turns out to be sturdy enough to play all year then it's hard to imagine a team with as many offensive needs as the football team investing significant capital at RB. McKissic being a good back in his own right helps Gibson in this regard I think.

They definitely need to add RB help. That's a given. Gibson is hit and miss running inside. I have him in 2 leagues, acquiring him recently in another league, so definitely pulling for him, but he's far from the finished product. I think ideally he's the lead of a committee, like he is now. I hope he can keep the GL work. The Football team definitely needs to add an early down back, though. Barber most likely won't be in the league next year, to start the season. My hope is Gibson can maintain GL work, while eventually getting 3rd down duties, as the lead part of a committee. NFL is going to 17 games next year, committees will become the reality for almost all teams. Passing down work and GL is where it is at for Fantasy. An early down between the tackles type getting added is what I am hoping for, not a back with good receiving pedigree.

[Jigga94]

The pleasant surprise with Gibson is how well he runs inside and how effective he is after contact. You could see in college that he had the burst to be good in space, but not that he would be a real problem for defences up the gut. His odds of sticking as a feature back keep going up I think, in that he can do short yardage and goal-line, he is an excellent pass catcher and he is a big play threat on the ground. If he proves to be a quick learner and turns out to be sturdy enough to play all year then it's hard to imagine a team with as many offensive needs as the football team investing significant capital at RB. McKissic being a good back in his own right helps Gibson in this regard I think.

I like this post and would assume you are right that they don't invest highly at RB. Maybe a retread 2 down back or a day 3 pick. They need to invest elsewhere before spending a round 3 or higher pick on a RB

[FantasyFreak]

The pleasant surprise with Gibson is how well he runs inside and how effective he is after contact. You could see in college that he had the burst to be good in space, but not that he would be a real problem for defences up the gut. His odds of sticking as a feature back keep going up I think, in that he can do short yardage and goal-line, he is an excellent pass catcher and he is a big play threat on the ground. If he proves to be a quick learner and turns out to be sturdy enough to play all year then it's hard to imagine a team with as many offensive needs as the football team investing significant capital at RB. McKissic being a good back in his own right helps Gibson in this regard I think.

I like this post and would assume you are right that they don't invest highly at RB. Maybe a retread 2 down back or a day 3 pick. They need to invest elsewhere before spending a round 3 or higher pick on a RB

I agree, but they do need some talent there. Barber is terrible. Gibson has shown to be decent between the tackles, but they need another back to help him, especially with a 17 game season. A 4th rounder, or a veteran upgrade over Barber, something like that. That would be ideal. I am assuming McKissic can hang for another year.

[Factory of Sadness]

I see the comment about Gibson being hit or miss inside, and I don't disagree. There are a couple of things I'd add to this though.

The first is that the vast majority of backs are somewhat hit or miss inside. Guys like McCaffrey, Chubb and Cook seem to rarely get it wrong, but few backs are right all the time. So we 're saying that Gibson is a little lower down the scale of good decisions that we'd like right now. When you consider how few carries he had in college though, isn't he a long way ahead of what might have been reasonably expected in this regard? The second is that inside running has a huge physical component too. If we look at how Gibson takes contact, then the burst, power and balance would all be boxes I think that Rivera would see as being comfortably ticked.

He's not going to be a one man army and will get spelled by someone, because that is the fate of almost every back. I think it would be an odd move for the football team to look to replace him with a simple early downs banger though. Gibson is already doing that well and has the capacity to keep improving. He also has the ability to go the distance though and having a run game that can offer you explosive plays is a coaches dream. Look at the 49ers with Mostert for instance. You can take so much pressure off your passing game if the decision to run the ball does not preclude the possibility of an explosive play. Rivera knows this first hand from Carolina.

So much of FF can come down to whether team goals and your hopes for your fantasy player honestly align. Gibson is an unusual back in that you get power, you have passing game chops and you get break-away speed, but he is very raw. Despite his inexperience, his team invested significant draft capital and are showing every sign of being believers. I agree that they will add another back to spell him, but I would be very surprised if the plan was to turn over early down work to someone else.

[FantasyFreak]

You need depth. Barber won't be there next year IMO. They NEED to add another RB that can play on early downs. It's just the reality of it. I wasn't suggesting that Gibson be replaced, but that they simply need another early down back. If Gibson gets an expanded role in the passing game (hopefully), they will need a 2nd back for a 1/2 punch to a degree, with Gibson being the 1. If they keep McKissic, Gibson may not get as many 3rd down snaps, but besides the Dallas game, where the holes were so big literally every RB in the league could have hit, he hasn't eclipsed 55 yards on the ground. His big run vs the Boys came on a jet sweep, not out of the backfield. They still aren't moving the ball very well on the ground. Not saying that's on him, but he is still a bit raw. He has looked better than you would expect for such little experience, though.

What they are doing right now with him is great. I personally hope they add a back that is good on early downs, to spell him OR, split him out wide while the new back is in the backfield. I'd rather Gibson get 13 carries and 4 receptions, than 20 carries, and zero receptions, like this past weekend. 15-20 touches a game (depending on game script) would be fantastic for Gibson, as long as they keep him involved in the passing game. I think he can be a high end RB2 for multiple years with his skill set. I just turned down a first, 2nd, third (projected late) and a 2022 2nd for him, so I believe in the player. I am also a realist, and they definitely need another early down back. They don't have one of NFL caliber at this point. Barber ain't it. Both to lighten the load in an expanded season, and in case of injury, they definitely need that.

Again, it's not that the FT needs to replace him with another early down capable back, but rather what their roster needs. Barber isn't an NFL caliber back at this stage, and McKissic is for the role he plays. They need a 3rd RB, and it's somebody who can run between the tackles on early downs, not a scat back.

[Bronco Billy]

You need depth. Barber won't be there next year IMO. They NEED to add another RB that can play on early downs. It's just the reality of it. I wasn't suggesting that Gibson be replaced, but that they simply need another early down back. If Gibson gets an expanded role in the passing game (hopefully), they will need a 2nd back for a 1/2 punch to a degree, with Gibson being the 1. If they keep McKissic, Gibson may not get as many 3rd down snaps, but besides the Dallas game, where the holes were so big literally every RB in the league could have hit, he hasn't eclipsed 55 yards on the ground. His big run vs the Boys came on a jet sweep, not out of the backfield. They still aren't moving the ball very well on the ground. Not saying that's on him, but he is still a bit raw. He has looked better than you would expect for such little experience, though.

What they are doing right now with him is great. I personally hope they add a back that is good on early downs, to spell him OR, split him out wide while the new back is in the backfield. I'd rather Gibson get 13 carries and 4 receptions, than 20 carries, and zero receptions, like this past weekend. 15-20 touches a game (depending on game script) would be fantastic for Gibson, as long as they keep him involved in the passing game. I think he can be a high end RB2 for multiple years with his skill set. I just turned down a first, 2nd, third (projected late) and a 2022 2nd for him, so I believe in the player. I am also a realist, and they definitely need another early down back. They don't have one of NFL caliber at this point. Barber ain't it. Both to lighten the load in an expanded season, and in case of injury, they definitely need that.

Again, it's not that the FT needs to replace him with another early down capable back, but rather what their roster needs. Barber isn't an NFL caliber back at this stage, and McKissic is for the role he plays. They need a 3rd RB, and it's somebody who can run between the tackles on early downs, not a scat back.

Sounds remarkably what many were saying about CAR in order to spell and properly use McCaffrey - before McCaffrey became the bell cow.

[FantasyFreak]

You need depth. Barber won't be there next year IMO. They NEED to add another RB that can play on early downs. It's just the reality of it. I wasn't suggesting that Gibson be replaced, but that they simply need another early down back. If Gibson gets an expanded role in the passing game (hopefully), they will need a 2nd back for a 1/2 punch to a degree, with Gibson being the 1. If they keep McKissic, Gibson may not get as many 3rd down snaps, but besides the Dallas game, where the holes were so big literally every RB in the league could have hit, he hasn't eclipsed 55 yards on the ground. His big run vs the Boys came on a jet sweep, not out of the backfield. They still aren't moving the ball very well on the ground. Not saying that's on him, but he is still a bit raw. He has looked better than you would expect for such little experience, though.

What they are doing right now with him is great. I personally hope they add a back that is good on early downs, to spell him OR, split him out wide while the new back is in the backfield. I'd rather Gibson get 13 carries and 4 receptions, than 20 carries, and zero receptions, like this past weekend. 15-20 touches a game (depending on game script) would be fantastic for Gibson, as long as they keep him involved in the passing game. I think he can be a high end RB2 for multiple years with his skill set. I just turned down a first, 2nd, third (projected late) and a 2022 2nd for him, so I believe in the player. I am also a realist, and they definitely need another early down back. They don't have one of NFL caliber at this point. Barber ain't it. Both to lighten the load in an expanded season, and in case of injury, they definitely need that.

Again, it's not that the FT needs to replace him with another early down capable back, but rather what their roster needs. Barber isn't an NFL caliber back at this stage, and McKissic is for the role he plays. They need a 3rd RB, and it's somebody who can run between the tackles on early downs, not a scat back.

Sounds remarkably what many were saying about CAR in order to spell and properly use McCaffrey - before McCaffrey became the bell cow.

Sure but he's nota McCaffrey level player. Nor will he ever be. CMC is a different level of player. Not even close. To command the amount of touches CMC did, you need to be truly special. Apples and oranges in terms of prospects. As someone who has Gibson I wish, but not happening. The Hyperbole of the HC using him as an example because he once coached the player doesn't make it a reality. The NFL is moving toward a 17 game season, and Gibson just isn't close to the player CMC even was entering the league. Even the Panthers are going to need to adjust touches with the new schedule. Al teams will, if they want their RB's to last and make a playoff run.

The FT needs another RB, unless they want to run with Barber again, which isn't a good idea. So if we assume Barber isn't an NFL caliber back beyond this year, then they NEED to add a another one. It's that simple. You need to carry at least 3 on game day. If McKissic sticks, a between the tackles RB like Barber, but better, is the logical addition. Look, people need to get a grip on this guy. He's a good player, and I have him in a third of my leagues, but he's not a special talent to the level of CMC. CMC was a very special player that doesn't come around very often, and this guy isn't to that level. He can still be a very good player, but I think you misunderstand the fact I am saying he can still be the lead back and get 15-20 touches a game. That's pushing 340 touches, on the upper end, next year. Anyone thinking he's hitting the over on that, I'm game for a bet.

[Bronco Billy]

You need depth. Barber won't be there next year IMO. They NEED to add another RB that can play on early downs. It's just the reality of it. I wasn't suggesting that Gibson be replaced, but that they simply need another early down back. If Gibson gets an expanded role in the passing game (hopefully), they will need a 2nd back for a 1/2 punch to a degree, with Gibson being the 1. If they keep McKissic, Gibson may not get as many 3rd down snaps, but besides the Dallas game, where the holes were so big literally every RB in the league could have hit, he hasn't eclipsed 55 yards on the ground. His big run vs the Boys came on a jet sweep, not out of the backfield. They still aren't moving the ball very well on the ground. Not saying that's on him, but he is still a bit raw. He has looked better than you would expect for such little experience, though.

What they are doing right now with him is great. I personally hope they add a back that is good on early downs, to spell him OR, split him out wide while the new back is in the backfield. I'd rather Gibson get 13 carries and 4 receptions, than 20 carries, and zero receptions, like this past weekend. 15-20 touches a game (depending on game script) would be fantastic for Gibson, as long as they keep him involved in the passing game. I think he can be a high end RB2 for multiple years with his skill set. I just turned down a first, 2nd, third (projected late) and a 2022 2nd for him, so I believe in the player. I am also a realist, and they definitely need another early down back. They don't have one of NFL caliber at this point. Barber ain't it. Both to lighten the load in an expanded season, and in case of injury, they definitely need that.

Again, it's not that the FT needs to replace him with another early down capable back, but rather what their roster needs. Barber isn't an NFL caliber back at this stage, and McKissic is for the role he plays. They need a 3rd RB, and it's somebody who can run between the tackles on early downs, not a scat back.

Sounds remarkably what many were saying about CAR in order to spell and properly use McCaffrey - before McCaffrey became the bell cow.

Sure but he's nota McCaffrey level player. Nor will he ever be. CMC is a different level of player. Not even close. To command the amount of touches CMC did, you need to be truly special. Apples and oranges in terms of prospects. As someone who has Gibson I wish, but not happening. The Hyperbole of the HC using him as an example because he once coached the player doesn't make it a reality. The NFL is moving toward a 17 game season, and Gibson just isn't close to the player CMC even was entering the league. Even the Panthers are going to need to adjust touches with the new schedule. Al teams will, if they want their RB's to last and make a playoff run.

The FT needs another RB, unless they want to run with Barber again, which isn't a good idea. So if we assume Barber isn't an NFL caliber back beyond this year, then they NEED to add a another one. It's that simple. You need to carry at least 3 on game day. If McKissic sticks, a between the tackles RB like Barber, but better, is the logical addition. Look, people need to get a grip on this guy. He's a good player, and I have him in a third of my leagues, but he's not a special talent to the level of CMC. CMC was a very special player that doesn't come around very often, and this guy isn't to that level. He can still be a very good player, but I think you misunderstand the fact I am saying he can still be the lead back and get 15-20 touches a game. That's pushing 340 touches, on the upper end, next year. Anyone thinking he's hitting the over on that, I'm game for a bet.

Again, some of this sounds remarkably what many people were saying about McCaffrey before he became a bell cow RB.

[FantasyFreak]

Sounds remarkably what many were saying about CAR in order to spell and properly use McCaffrey - before McCaffrey became the bell cow.

Sure but he's nota McCaffrey level player. Nor will he ever be. CMC is a different level of player. Not even close. To command the amount of touches CMC did, you need to be truly special. Apples and oranges in terms of prospects. As someone who has Gibson I wish, but not happening. The Hyperbole of the HC using him as an example because he once coached the player doesn't make it a reality. The NFL is moving toward a 17 game season, and Gibson just isn't close to the player CMC even was entering the league. Even the Panthers are going to need to adjust touches with the new schedule. Al teams will, if they want their RB's to last and make a playoff run.

The FT needs another RB, unless they want to run with Barber again, which isn't a good idea. So if we assume Barber isn't an NFL caliber back beyond this year, then they NEED to add a another one. It's that simple. You need to carry at least 3 on game day. If McKissic sticks, a between the tackles RB like Barber, but better, is the logical addition. Look, people need to get a grip on this guy. He's a good player, and I have him in a third of my leagues, but he's not a special talent to the level of CMC. CMC was a very special player that doesn't come around very often, and this guy isn't to that level. He can still be a very good player, but I think you misunderstand the fact I am saying he can still be the lead back and get 15-20 touches a game. That's pushing 340 touches, on the upper end, next year. Anyone thinking he's hitting the over on that, I'm game for a bet.

Again, some of this sounds remarkably what many people were saying about McCaffrey before he became a bell cow RB.

Yeah, and? What's your point? Are you claiming that he therefor will see 350-400 touches and be a generational caliber producer, or are you just sayin'? You seem to be drawing a corollary of a ton of RB's and comments from year 1, not just CMC. Yet you specifically mention CMC. Kind of beating around the bush on the projected results, though. Other than "comments" in year 1, I don't think these players are in the same category of talent. Do you? What's your projection for Gibson, I've laid out a rational argument on what I foresee for Washington, please, elaborate on what you project.

[Ice]

Gibson is way better than many think.

He is averaging over 4.4 YPC and his work load is increasing.
He will most likely finish this year around 40 receptions, 1250 total yards and 9 TD's.

Next year will be in the 1500 plus yard range. Get use to this player excelling in a 3 down role.

[Bronco Billy]

Sure but he's nota McCaffrey level player. Nor will he ever be. CMC is a different level of player. Not even close. To command the amount of touches CMC did, you need to be truly special. Apples and oranges in terms of prospects. As someone who has Gibson I wish, but not happening. The Hyperbole of the HC using him as an example because he once coached the player doesn't make it a reality. The NFL is moving toward a 17 game season, and Gibson just isn't close to the player CMC even was entering the league. Even the Panthers are going to need to adjust touches with the new schedule. Al teams will, if they want their RB's to last and make a playoff run.

The FT needs another RB, unless they want to run with Barber again, which isn't a good idea. So if we assume Barber isn't an NFL caliber back beyond this year, then they NEED to add a another one. It's that simple. You need to carry at least 3 on game day. If McKissic sticks, a between the tackles RB like Barber, but better, is the logical addition. Look, people need to get a grip on this guy. He's a good player, and I have him in a third of my leagues, but he's not a special talent to the level of CMC. CMC was a very special player that doesn't come around very often, and this guy isn't to that level. He can still be a very good player, but I think you misunderstand the fact I am saying he can still be the lead back and get 15-20 touches a game. That's pushing 340 touches, on the upper end, next year. Anyone thinking he's hitting the over on that, I'm game for a bet.

Again, some of this sounds remarkably what many people were saying about McCaffrey before he became a bell cow RB.

Yeah, and? What's your point? Are you claiming that he therefor will see 350-400 touches and be a generational caliber producer, or are you just sayin'? You seem to be drawing a corollary of a ton of RB's and comments from year 1, not just CMC. Yet you specifically mention CMC. Kind of beating around the bush on the projected results, though. Other than "comments" in year 1, I don't think these players are in the same category of talent. Do you? What's your projection for Gibson, I've laid out a rational argument on what I foresee for Washington, please, elaborate on what you project.

I’m saying that despite how you repeat so many times in this thread ad nauseum that it’s extremely difficult to project Gibson’s career, and that a player in a similar situation with many predicting almost exactly the kind of career that you are for Gibson, that those people were very wrong.

We know what your position is, you’ve posted it so often. Despite that, it’s still not fact and it remains to be seen how Gibson progresses.

[Krypto_King]

sounds like what we need is a Mckissic hammy pull. Not just to get Gibson fully operational but also just to test if the coaching staff thinks he can play 3rd downs full-time. Barber signed a 2 year deal so he will likely be competing with Love + day 3 pick for a roster spot.

[Meretc01]

Rookie year for mccaffery
16 games 117 - 435 - 2TDs 3.7/a
113 targets 80 receptions 5 TDs

Antonio Gibson
Now:
103 - 436 - 7 TDs 4.2/a
30 - 26r - 202yds - 0 TDs

Pace
164 - 692 - 11TDs
48t - 41r - 323yds- 1 TDs

Gibson isn’t a mccaffery.. no one is... everyone knows the stats between these two but I have hope that next year he takes over the role of pass catcher and becomes more of a interior runner.

All this shows that Rivera help back one side of mccaffery until the following year on one side of his game. The next year he blew up his rush attempts.

I have hope that Gibson could do the same thing.