Dynasty League Football Forum

Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:55 am

Zhoward88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:12 am 339 total (current) players in the nfl came from the SEC.....the next closest number is 87 less in a conference and that is the big 10. Yes, it matters to me watching success and production against the SEC...a conference that pours in nfl players at a high rate. Nfl talent is more prominent in the SEC than other conferences. That enough for you to see why I use that in some sort of fashion? Chill out man. You clearly don’t want to talk about Toney and Wallace and their talent. You want to argue and expand little things like saying I’m being a baby. I’m trying to agree with you and smooth over the notion that other conferences and school and produce fantasy relevant players. But I’m trying to explain why I do look at the SEC factor. My gosh.

Yeah, and there are more non-Power 5 players in the NFL than players out of the SEC.

I thought I made my point comparing both pretty clearly in my initial post, which you quoted and then promptly jumped aboard your SEC horse and still won’t climb off.

Here’s a few sites with D stats and rankings. Make your argument about how great SEC Ds are, or please site your own sources if you’d like. Until you convince me otherwise, the awesome SEC argument is moot to me.


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... lldef/2020

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/ye ... fense.html

https://www.oddsshark.com/ncaaf/defensive-stats

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-fo ... s-per-game

Man I’m giving in. I tried dropping it and moving on, but you called me out on not giving you a reason. So I threw out the reason. Then you claim I can’t get off the high horse. O well. Thanks anyways.

You’re about 5-7 years behind the curve. SEC defenses are better than Big 12 ones but it’s an offense first conference nowadays (like the whole sport). There is nothing particularly superior about beating SEC defenses especially when considering Toney did it once while Tylan dominated for three years.

If you want to bring up the famed power of dumpster fires Tennessee and Missouri I can just as easily point out that Toney was catching passes from a mid round NFL draft pick and heisman finalist while Wallace was...not

StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:55 pm You’re about 5-7 years behind the curve. SEC defenses are better than Big 12 ones but it’s an offense first conference nowadays (like the whole sport). There is nothing particularly superior about beating SEC defenses especially when considering Toney did it once while Tylan dominated for three years.

If you want to bring up the famed power of dumpster fires Tennessee and Missouri I can just as easily point out that Toney was catching passes from a mid round NFL draft pick and heisman finalist while Wallace was...not

Fair enough. I’m wrong.
Do you like what you see from Toney or tylan more? Not the same style but it seems they aren’t far apart in the positions they could be taken in drafts.

I’m liking Tylan Wallace slightly better. I like how he tracks and adjusts to the ball on contested catches and his moves after the catch. Toney is right there though. Maybe landing spot decides it for me.

OkOk wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:17 pm I’m liking Tylan Wallace slightly better. I like how he tracks and adjusts to the ball on contested catches and his moves after the catch. Toney is right there though. Maybe landing spot decides it for me.

I think it’s pretty clear tylan has deep route/contested catch skills. Toney has made some plays downfield but nothing like tylan when it comes to going up and getting the ball consistently. Toney is intriguing for the footwork and possibly RAC....but I don’t know if I’m a fan of toneys attitude. Seems a little too edgy. I like the passion but wonder if he can control it and keep his head in the game

Zhoward88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:00 pm

StripesOfKC wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:55 pm You’re about 5-7 years behind the curve. SEC defenses are better than Big 12 ones but it’s an offense first conference nowadays (like the whole sport). There is nothing particularly superior about beating SEC defenses especially when considering Toney did it once while Tylan dominated for three years.

If you want to bring up the famed power of dumpster fires Tennessee and Missouri I can just as easily point out that Toney was catching passes from a mid round NFL draft pick and heisman finalist while Wallace was...not

Fair enough. I’m wrong.
Do you like what you see from Toney or tylan more? Not the same style but it seems they aren’t far apart in the positions they could be taken in drafts.

I expect Toney to get higher draft capital (late 1st/early 2nd) vs Wallace's late 2nd/3rd but still prefer Tylan

Mostly for reasons everyone has hit--I just prefer Tylan's style of WR and think it brings a way higher floor without a major loss in ceiling

He just looks so smooth in his release and out of breaks with great adjustments on contested catches. Durability is a slight worry though considering his brother retired from football due to ACL tears and Wallace already has one

As for Toney he would have to be such a major outlier to succeed after one year of production in college (as a 22 year old senior) and three years of nothing

It's not like Terrace Marshall where he was boxed out by Jamarr Chase and Justin Jefferson either (and Marshall still did more a sophomore than Toney did in any of his three years before this in his 13 TDs)--he was outproduced by a lot of no names until this year

I look for guys who can produce early and dominate their target competition--bonus points if their target competition are NFL players

I have gotten more to a case by case basis on late breakouts after successes like Aiyuk, Gallup and Ridley and given some leeway to guys who arrived late/started playing football late and thus broke out late (Aiyuk broke out as a 21 year old by in his 2nd year of college for example) but a four year guy being behind Kyle Pitts and a bunch of mediocrities (the best of which is probably Van Jefferson but there are some guys you've never heard of there too) and not doing anything until their senior year is not a case like those guys (Aiyuk, Ridley, etc)

If I have a draft that goes analytics heavily and lets fall hard despite 1st round capital I'll scoop him up, hope he does something early as a rookie and try to flip him but I would definitely prefer a consistent producer who dominated his own recieving room from his sophomore year on like Wallace

If it weren't for an ACL injury as a sophomore, I think Wallace would be in talks for the Tier 1 group of WRs. He was that good (and still is).

I get the appeal with Toney, but his resume isn't very strong. Getting some Phillip Dorsett vibes in terms of why he's getting mocked in the 1st round (of the real NFL).

Did I get something wrong in my notes? Or are these guys very close in most measurable?

5 11
194
4.4ish
4years

Except Tylan has Soph breakout and better numbers. I get the SEC argument, but that doesn't change that Toney is pretty much a do not draft for me, especially before Tylan. We will see where the draft places them though. If Toney is taken before him I likely won't have any shares

Jigga94 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:00 pm Did I get something wrong in my notes? Or are these guys very close in most measurable?

5 11
194
4.4ish
4years

Except Tylan has Soph breakout and better numbers. I get the SEC argument, but that doesn't change that Toney is pretty much a do not draft for me, especially before Tylan. We will see where the draft places them though. If Toney is taken before him I likely won't have any shares

40 yard times are very debatable this year. Didn't Toney far out produce Wallace in the broad and vertical jump to the point of non comparable? Are we really considering Wallace and Toney the same caliber athlete? It doesn't seem like anyone else is.

remedy29 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:51 pm

Jigga94 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:00 pm Did I get something wrong in my notes? Or are these guys very close in most measurable?

5 11
194
4.4ish
4years

Except Tylan has Soph breakout and better numbers. I get the SEC argument, but that doesn't change that Toney is pretty much a do not draft for me, especially before Tylan. We will see where the draft places them though. If Toney is taken before him I likely won't have any shares

40 yard times are very debatable this year. Didn't Toney far out produce Wallace in the broad and vertical jump to the point of non comparable? Are we really considering Wallace and Toney the same caliber athlete? It doesn't seem like anyone else is.

Hence why I asked. Tylan had a 4.38 laser at the EXOS combine, which uses the same system as the NFL. And then a 4.48 hand timed at his pro day so who knows.

I didn't see the jump discrepancy (I didn't think Tylan did any but I just saw the 33" vert so Toney can definitely out jump him at 41") but does that matter all that much? I don't think Vert numbers or even 40 numbers for that matter, correlate to success. My point wasn't that this numbers should decide the debate, just that most of them are pretty close outside of the jumps.

Toney looked good as a 22 year old senior, but lots do. Was there a reason he didn't break out earlier?

Jigga94 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:37 pm

remedy29 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:51 pm

Jigga94 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:00 pm Did I get something wrong in my notes? Or are these guys very close in most measurable?

5 11
194
4.4ish
4years

Except Tylan has Soph breakout and better numbers. I get the SEC argument, but that doesn't change that Toney is pretty much a do not draft for me, especially before Tylan. We will see where the draft places them though. If Toney is taken before him I likely won't have any shares

40 yard times are very debatable this year. Didn't Toney far out produce Wallace in the broad and vertical jump to the point of non comparable? Are we really considering Wallace and Toney the same caliber athlete? It doesn't seem like anyone else is.

Hence why I asked. Tylan had a 4.38 laser at the EXOS combine, which uses the same system as the NFL. And then a 4.48 hand timed at his pro day so who knows.

I didn't see the jump discrepancy (I didn't think Tylan did any but I just saw the 33" vert so Toney can definitely out jump him at 41") but does that matter all that much? I don't think Vert numbers or even 40 numbers for that matter, correlate to success. My point wasn't that this numbers should decide the debate, just that most of them are pretty close outside of the jumps.

Toney looked good as a 22 year old senior, but lots do. Was there a reason he didn't break out earlier?

He switched positions from QB to WR in college. So learning a new position took him some time.

This one isn't even close for me. I much prefer Wallace.

Toney easily for me given he can play multiple positions and has the suddenness to be very effective against press coverage. Versatility matters and Toney has that in a big way. His vision is incredible. Barry Sanders type moves as a WR. Think he is a lock NFL 1st round selection.

Players like Tylan drop in the NFL because beating press corners is critical and Tylan isn't great at that. I like him as a solid prospect as more of a traditional WR 2 on a team but he isn't nearly a sudden or creative. More of a build to single speed player type. Better DB's can defeat him at the NFL level.

They will go 2 rounds apart in the NFL IMO.

Toney for me, Wallace gets bullied - reminds me of a less physical Josh Doctson.

Having said that, Toneys analytical profile is terrible so I’d only spend an early second - but he’s probably my favourite college player to watch.

cantguardjake wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 pm Toney for me, Wallace gets bullied - reminds me of a less physical Josh Doctson.

Having said that, Toneys analytical profile is terrible so I’d only spend an early second - but he’s probably my favourite college player to watch.

I lean this way as well. Early second is where his value Max’s out at to me. But I feel he has the athleticism and explosion to win matchups in the nfl. I think Wallace has had a great college career but don’t know if he can win against the pros like that. Would like both at the right price but I think I’m taking Toney a full round before tylan.