Opinion: Travis Etienne is the best RB prospect since Barkley

[Bronco Billy]

Did you write this 30 years ago? Analytics have made it clear it’s more about situational football. There’s a time when it’s important to fight for an extra yard, but it’s definitely not every play. Not even most plays. If you just ripped off a 15 yard run for a 1st down, that’s the worst possible time to lower your shoulder for a yard. All that matters there is you got the new set of downs. Preserve the body so you can do it again.

Swift was perfect in that scenario.

Are yards in the NFL less important now than they were 30 years ago? Given your scenario, if my RB just busted off 15 yards snd he’s now in the 3rd level of the D going up against what’s left in front of him and he chooses to just sashay OB instead of trying to extend his run further, then yeah I’ve got a few cross words for him after I give him a scratch behind the ears for getting the 15 in the first place.

Every yard matters, right up until you cross the goal line, you need to stop the clock at the end of a half, or you’re trying to run out the clock at the end of the game.

What do you mean, my scenario? You didn’t address it. You responded by citing a completely different scenario than the play in question. What you just described is an open field, make a guy miss situation, which is obviously worth attempting. The Swift play was literally lowering the shoulder for maybe a yard right at the sideline. Or a fumble, could just as easily be a fumble instead of a yard. Or injury.

I guess your same take would apply to QBs also, yes? Surely they are not exempt from spearing themselves into the helmet of a linebacker, doing everything they can to turn what’s about to be 2nd and 5 into 2nd and 4 instead Every yard is sacred. No sliding. RG3 style.

If that something about that doesn’t seem right, then just realize some element of that applies to other ball carriers and receivers at various times, too.

OK, so clearly we are not going to have a civil conversation, since we both know that QB and RB are very different positions and playing hurt for one is not like playing hurt for the other, as is the risk to the success of the team.

Have a good weekend.

[skinfanjon]

Are yards in the NFL less important now than they were 30 years ago? Given your scenario, if my RB just busted off 15 yards snd he’s now in the 3rd level of the D going up against what’s left in front of him and he chooses to just sashay OB instead of trying to extend his run further, then yeah I’ve got a few cross words for him after I give him a scratch behind the ears for getting the 15 in the first place.

Every yard matters, right up until you cross the goal line, you need to stop the clock at the end of a half, or you’re trying to run out the clock at the end of the game.

What do you mean, my scenario? You didn’t address it. You responded by citing a completely different scenario than the play in question. What you just described is an open field, make a guy miss situation, which is obviously worth attempting. The Swift play was literally lowering the shoulder for maybe a yard right at the sideline. Or a fumble, could just as easily be a fumble instead of a yard. Or injury.

I guess your same take would apply to QBs also, yes? Surely they are not exempt from spearing themselves into the helmet of a linebacker, doing everything they can to turn what’s about to be 2nd and 5 into 2nd and 4 instead Every yard is sacred. No sliding. RG3 style.

If that something about that doesn’t seem right, then just realize some element of that applies to other ball carriers and receivers at various times, too.

OK, so clearly we are not going to have a civil conversation, since we both know that QB and RB are very different positions and playing hurt for one is not like playing hurt for the other, as is the risk to the success of the team.

Have a good weekend.

I’m civil, you just don’t like point that’s being made. Nevermind that you completely distorted the original play in question, and ignored the top and bottom of my last post.

So it’s about the success of the team, but the safety net only applies to QBs. At least we got that far. What about top notch receivers? Jefferson, Tyreek, Kelce, etc, etc, etc. Should they expose themselves to avoidable but brutal hits on every single play and tackle? There’s never a point where it makes sense to just duck out of bounds and avoid a vicious shot to the head or whatever? Guessing you’ll say they should play it safe sometimes if being honest. So then… What about McCaffrey? Isn’t he just as crucial to their success? And then once you get over those speed bumps, you start to see how the logic falls apart.

It’s situational football. Certain moments you absolutely need to be willing to lay yourself out all the way. Others just aren’t as impactful.

[Pullo Vision]

Did someone say "business decision"? I don't know, couldn't hear through all these SB XXII vibes.

[skinfanjon]

Did someone say "business decision"? I don't know, couldn't hear through all these SB XXII vibes.

Oh no, you got me.

[mild]

Makes you think:

Pre-NFL Draft fantasy football ADP:
Kenneth Walker (RB6)
Travis Etienne (RB12)

*Seahawks and Jaguars both draft an RB on day two*

Current ADP:
Walker (RB16)
Etienne (RB13)

Are Etienne owners really less scared of Bigsby than Walker owners are of Charb?

There was a time when Tank was considered one of the pre-eminent talents of the 2023 draft (back in 2021 basically) and there are some around here even now that are still extremely excited for him.

Seems to me Etienne is still operating in a bear-market ADP wise, but man... if it starts going more Tanks' way in the early going... it could get wild in here.

Tank may end up surprising people.. but how some felt about him over a year ago has little bearing on him now.. Unless you feel like extending those same feelings towards guys like Isaiah Spiller, Zach Evans and Sean Tucker.

There is a chasm of difference between 2nd and 3rd round draft capital at the RB position.

Even if that chasm is true... and I'm really not sure that it is, in terms of simply preventing a time-share...

I think I like Walker way more at value in his time share vs. Etienne in his.

[Sriracha]

Makes you think:



Are Etienne owners really less scared of Bigsby than Walker owners are of Charb?

There was a time when Tank was considered one of the pre-eminent talents of the 2023 draft (back in 2021 basically) and there are some around here even now that are still extremely excited for him.

Seems to me Etienne is still operating in a bear-market ADP wise, but man... if it starts going more Tanks' way in the early going... it could get wild in here.

Tank may end up surprising people.. but how some felt about him over a year ago has little bearing on him now.. Unless you feel like extending those same feelings towards guys like Isaiah Spiller, Zach Evans and Sean Tucker.

There is a chasm of difference between 2nd and 3rd round draft capital at the RB position.

Even if that chasm is true... and I'm really not sure that it is, in terms of simply preventing a time-share...

I think I like Walker way more at value in his time share vs. Etienne in his.

Off the top of my head Keyshawn Vaughn, Tyrion Davis Price, Trey Sermon, Darrington Evans are recent 3rd round picks that never fired and have already been cut or are fighting for a roster spot.

Name the last 2nd round RB that wasn’t at least used in a timeshare; These guys are given chance after chance to succeed with their teams. The biggest bust in recent memory is Rojo and that guy somehow wrestled a few years of production.

[Bronco Billy]

What do you mean, my scenario? You didn’t address it. You responded by citing a completely different scenario than the play in question. What you just described is an open field, make a guy miss situation, which is obviously worth attempting. The Swift play was literally lowering the shoulder for maybe a yard right at the sideline. Or a fumble, could just as easily be a fumble instead of a yard. Or injury.

I guess your same take would apply to QBs also, yes? Surely they are not exempt from spearing themselves into the helmet of a linebacker, doing everything they can to turn what’s about to be 2nd and 5 into 2nd and 4 instead Every yard is sacred. No sliding. RG3 style.

If that something about that doesn’t seem right, then just realize some element of that applies to other ball carriers and receivers at various times, too.

OK, so clearly we are not going to have a civil conversation, since we both know that QB and RB are very different positions and playing hurt for one is not like playing hurt for the other, as is the risk to the success of the team.

Have a good weekend.

I’m civil, you just don’t like point that’s being made. Nevermind that you completely distorted the original play in question, and ignored the top and bottom of my last post.

So it’s about the success of the team, but the safety net only applies to QBs. At least we got that far. What about top notch receivers? Jefferson, Tyreek, Kelce, etc, etc, etc. Should they expose themselves to avoidable but brutal hits on every single play and tackle? There’s never a point where it makes sense to just duck out of bounds and avoid a vicious shot to the head or whatever? Guessing you’ll say they should play it safe sometimes if being honest. So then… What about McCaffrey? Isn’t he just as crucial to their success? And then once you get over those speed bumps, you start to see how the logic falls apart.

It’s situational football. Certain moments you absolutely need to be willing to lay yourself out all the way. Others just aren’t as impactful.

Again, either simply not understanding the game or intentionally being obtuse.

Yes, WRs should have the same commitment to gaining every yard reasonably possible. There are different expectations for WRs because it is a different position. There’s a reason why 43 RBs touched the football more last season than JJ did, and he lead all WRs in touches. But if there are yards that can be gained at reasonable risk then they should be trying to gain them. That doesn’t mean they make themselves a tackling dummy - if there is nowhere to go and they are exposed then of course they should protect themselves.

And geez - really? Avoiding vicious shots to the head? You do understand that football does have rules and that intentionally attacking an opponent’s head is against those rules, right? There’s also rules that protect defenseless receivers, so it is clear that the league understands the difference between running with the football and catching the football and the ability of players to protect themselves in each situation - something that you are intentionally trying to blur in an effort to do what - make excuses for Swift’s failure to take on a tackler? Do you understand that it is quite possible that a RB can avoid injury better by initiating contact rather than giving themselves up?

[Bronco Billy]

And here’s what started this whole kerfluffle:

“You can be the best in this league, you really can,” running backs coach Duce Staley told Swift during a particularly frank film session that was caught on the HBO show. “But what you got to do is this: You got to have that dog mentality. You got to bring that (expletive) out of you.”

Staley was challenging Swift while watching a practice rep where Swift had bounced a run to the second level of the defense. But as pulled within 10 yards of the end zone, and just safety DeShon Elliott to beat, he stepped out of bounds instead of challenging the defender.

Staley didn’t like that.

“You got to do something, Swift,” Staley bellowed, “‘cause guess what? If you would have stiff-armed him there, you might have (expletive) scored. You’re making it too easy for him. They’re already scared of you getting out there. Finish it! C’mon, man. Finish it! Be hungry. Be greedy for every (expletive) yard. Go get it. That’s the mentality. ‘Every yard out there is mine.’ Don’t be satisfied with that (expletive), man.

Every time you step between them (expletive) lines, you got to believe you’re the (expletive) best. You got to believe it.”

It’s difficult to understand why anyone who watches football would be against a coach trying to teach a player in the NFL that when they find themselves 1 on 1 downfield with a defender that they should try to beat that defender and attempt to at least gain extra yards rather than just surrendering.

[Ice]

Tony Dorsett ran all he way to the HOF by rarely taking extra hits.

He always looked to get out of bounds before contact.
He was a great RB that was smart enough to know it’s the next play that mattered.

Use to drive my dad crazy but he finally came around to the wisdom of the next play. Of course it could have been he moved into my parents neighborhood

[Lumps]

Off the top of my head Keyshawn Vaughn, Tyrion Davis Price, Trey Sermon, Darrington Evans are recent 3rd round picks that never fired and have already been cut or are fighting for a roster spot.

None of these guys had the pedigree that Tank does. None of them showed what he did in the SEC.

Not only that, but every draft is different. Where was the depth in this draft? At RB.

[Cameron Giles]

Off the top of my head Keyshawn Vaughn, Tyrion Davis Price, Trey Sermon, Darrington Evans are recent 3rd round picks that never fired and have already been cut or are fighting for a roster spot.

None of these guys had the pedigree that Tank does. None of them showed what he did in the SEC.

Not only that, but every draft is different. Where was the depth in this draft? At RB.

Vaughn was pretty good in his two years at Vanderbilt. Vaughn is a weird case. He actually had a pretty decent profile and a chance at a good situation. Not sure what happened there.