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What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:37 am
by Zhoward88
Recently (couple weeks after the super bowl) been watching rookie tape/highlights of all rookie RBs and WRs. I have no clue why people are acting like CEH is gonna be a bust. He put some tape out there showing he’s capable, athletic and strong. Making guys miss, getting to the outside edge, and not going down on arm tackles. Then in the super bowl he was the only positive aspect for the chiefs offense. 1100 yards from scrimmage and many 10+ yard plays. He’s just a really good/Efficient player on possibly the best offense with likely the best fantasy QB for the next 6-8 years. How is that deserving on “I’m down on CEH” or “I am not a CEH fan” blah blah blah. He’s literally not far behind the other rookie backs that have worse QB situations and offenses and likely more time share situation like swift. Will all the haters still not be high on him if he hits 1500 yards and double digit TDs? I’m pretty excited for him and didn’t even own him last year until I traded for him this offseason. It’s like once a player sits out a game and 3-4 people say “I’m not high on him” then it’s just a widespread fire for no reason. All I saw was play making and tackle breaking ability. Pretty good rookie season and super bowl effort!
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:11 am
by Gator Sens
I think some owners are down on him because of how high he was drafted and thought he would be an instant stud because of where he was drafted. In the reverse, some seems hesitant to buy at a high price again based on what he showed. I actually tried to buy a few weeks ago with no luck in my league. If you own him, he is an easy hold but I think expectations have to be curbed a bit based on all the mouths to feed for KC and we may never be a true workhorse which is the other reason I think some are low on him. His expectations were through the roof coming into last year and I think some were disappointed for stretches. We have been spoiled by rookie RB's of late that showing patience is key when a player does not fully hit in year one. I have learned that the hard way early in my dynasty years.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:14 am
by killer_of_giants
he's a good running back, but he's not as good as other running backs in his class (i have taylor, dobbins, swift and gibson above him, especially if we're looking at ceiling), and his situation is not as good as many think: the chiefs have a great offense, but have consistently been in the bottom quarter of rushing attempts per game in the past four or five seasons, and average at best in targets to RBs (helaire got 4.1 targets per game last season, the last chiefs RB to get more was charles in 2012 or 2013 with 6). this is unlikely to change with mahomes there, and reid has shown he's more than willing to drop the running game even when it's the only thing that's going well.
so he's not a top talent, he's not in a top situation, i don't see his targets increasing significantly, and it is very possible he will have some competition (especially for a short yardage role). those who picked him 1.01 will still want something close to that to sell him, and i can buy players i like more for the same price.
what i wonder is why everything has to be ace or shite. a lover or a hater. bleep this for a game of soldiers!
he's a back end RB1, high end RB2 with a high floor. if you think he's better than that it doesn't make me a "hater".
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:57 am
by murphysxm
I view it less as hate and more as in people realizing he was falsely elevated last year. He performed about exactly as I anticpated, albeit less involved in passng game than I predicted. Many just got caught up in his hype and he got pushed way high expectation wise.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:19 am
by Zhoward88
Well I personally think the chiefs have actually done some things this offseason to help the situation. Revamping the O-line being one of them. And how is 1100 yards in 13 games disappointing? Swift had 900 in the same amount of games. TDs can be super flukey too. Wouldn’t be surprised if the lions offense was even worse next year with defenses loading the box. Yes, a versatile RB in the chiefs offense with the scoring opportunities he will have is a much better situation than the lions (or any lions RB the last 20 years) is. I honestly don’t get it. Swift did not do anything more than CEH on tape really. And had less yardage production. I wouldn’t hardly want a lions RB in general, let alone after losing stafford/Jones/golladay. Especially after the super bowl showing I think the chiefs are gonna fee obligated to give that first round pick every opportunity to lead the backfield. I don’t think Andy Reid and that front office took CEH to catch a couple balls on Sunday and be a gimmicky player. Dobbins really has even more concern to me with Gus edwards getting the support/contract talk he’s getting and Lamar still struggling to throw the ball. So yea call me silly but I’ll take the 1100 yes back in 13 games in that offense that will likely put up 30-35 points a game this year with better O-line.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:23 am
by Zhoward88
Plus the fumbles Swift had to zero CEH had. I think people are just hating.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 am
by krtbuckeye
Echoing a bit of what's already been said, but I think it's mostly owner's viewing it through the lens of him being bumped up a bit too far due to landing spot, relative to other RBs in the class that is. After one season, I don't think too many people who invested the 1.01 in him are willing to cut bait at a discount, and people who don't have him probably aren't looking to pay what it would take to get him. I understand these are just generalizations, and maybe there are deals to be had on him at a good price, but it really comes down to just that for me with CEH...price.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:51 pm
by Zhoward88
krtbuckeye wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:24 am
Echoing a bit of what's already been said, but I think it's mostly owner's viewing it through the lens of him being bumped up a bit too far due to landing spot, relative to other RBs in the class that is. After one season, I don't think too many people who invested the 1.01 in him are willing to cut bait at a discount, and people who don't have him probably aren't looking to pay what it would take to get him. I understand these are just generalizations, and maybe there are deals to be had on him at a good price, but it really comes down to just that for me with CEH...price.
I get what you’re saying. I’m just seeing all this talk about how he wasn’t good and people don’t think he’s legit and then all this stuff about Swift and how beloved he is hahahah remember when kerryon Johnson flashed during his rookie season? He had about the same amount of yards on less touches than Swift as a rookie in 10 games. Already a forgotten entity. The lions are maybe the 2nd to last team I would want to put my money on producing a RB1 at this point. And that is even before losing the weapons they lost. I just feel people are WAY overthinking the value of these guys and if it’s because he only produced 1100 yards and 5-6 TDs in 13 games when they expected 1600 yards and 13 TDs then so be it....just blows me away. He performed well and was efficient. I look forward to seeing how he’s used next year because I think he’s only going to be used more. Barring injury.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:18 pm
by Zhoward88
I guess I’m looking at it like Jonathan Taylor played more games and if not for that ridiculous last 4 games would have pretty easily been behind CEH statistically. I know it’s a what if game but before those 4 games he was not impressing and he literally had the role without mack there. CEH played 2 less games and had exact same receiving stats (35 receptions for 300 yards) and still only finished around 360 rushing yards less than taylor even with the crazy 4 weeks to end the season for Taylor. I think all the RBs are talented, ready to see how they pan out next season.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:35 pm
by MaddMadden
I'm all aboard the CEH train. Recency bias here... He had that illness then the hip/ ankle injury. Bell ate up some touches when he came aboard, but is gone along with Williams. O Line improved. There is opportunity for him to gain snap share on 3rd down (and subsequently targets).
Guy is special.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:40 pm
by Vcize
I like CEH, but there are some concerns here. People were expecting him to step in and be Kareem Hunt, who took off in his 1st game as a rookie and never looked back until the thing happened.
But Mahomes doesn't look to his RBs as much as Alex Smith did. Hunt's reception totals dwindled when Mahomes came in but it went somewhat unnoticed because he was flourishing so much as a runner. And simply put, he's a much better runner than CEH. People were expecting KC to regularly use CEH as a top target out of the backfield and it just doesn't seem like that is going to happen. Mahomes would rather run in circles and then chuck the ball 50 yards downfield (and why not, it works) then dump it off to the RB.
Additionally worrisome is the way Andy Reid constantly looked to find someone to take the load off of CEH, sometimes to an extreme amount. Hunt got the job by injury but once he got a shot Reid pretty much made him the guy and never looked back. With CEH he was bringing guys in mid-season to try and find someone to take a chunk of the work.
I am still bullish long-term but it's not that difficult to see why his value has depressed compared to other rookies, when those other rookies all captured larger roles and increased their efficiency as the year went on while CEH kind of did the opposite.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:04 am
by killer_of_giants
Vcize wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:40 pm
But Mahomes doesn't look to his RBs as much as Alex Smith did.
i feel like this point is a bit overblown. hunt got 63 targets in 16 games as a rookie (3.9 per game), helaire got 54 in 13 (4.1). total targets to chiefs RBs was 114 in 2017, 111 in 2020, so not much of a difference really. as you say, hunt is just a better runner. and receiver, too.
Re: What’s with the CEH hate?
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:24 pm
by MaddMadden
Vcize wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:40 pm
I like CEH, but there are some concerns here. People were expecting him to step in and be Kareem Hunt, who took off in his 1st game as a rookie and never looked back until the thing happened.
But Mahomes doesn't look to his RBs as much as Alex Smith did. Hunt's reception totals dwindled when Mahomes came in but it went somewhat unnoticed because he was flourishing so much as a runner. And simply put, he's a much better runner than CEH. People were expecting KC to regularly use CEH as a top target out of the backfield and it just doesn't seem like that is going to happen. Mahomes would rather run in circles and then chuck the ball 50 yards downfield (and why not, it works) then dump it off to the RB.
Additionally worrisome is the way Andy Reid constantly looked to find someone to take the load off of CEH, sometimes to an extreme amount. Hunt got the job by injury but once he got a shot Reid pretty much made him the guy and never looked back. With CEH he was bringing guys in mid-season to try and find someone to take a chunk of the work.
I am still bullish long-term but it's not that difficult to see why his value has depressed compared to other rookies, when those other rookies all captured larger roles and increased their efficiency as the year went on while CEH kind of did the opposite.
I view this as easing the rookie into things. Bell is talented and he walked in off the street. CEH hamdled himself incredibly well before Bells addition, and I don't think McKinnon will be real competition for lead back duties.