Dynasty League Football Forum

Consensus & Common Sense is rarely combined in these discussions

Arguing JT was ever on a par w/ Saquon as a prospect or all around talent is an end of discussion non sequitur. We're not dealing with facts @ that point

Also if someone has a better career doesn't mean he was the more talented or better player. Colts line, QB , OC were all better than any Saquon has had in his brief time.

Is there a single NFL GM or HC that would choose JT over Barkley in any scheme or fit. Even the Wisconsin HC would take Saquon 1st. You don't go 3rd RB in your draft if you ARE the consensus best all around back.

Doesn't mean JT can't go on to a HOF career but he wasn't considered a generational talent. Zeke, OJ, Ricky Williams, Earl ... Those guys along with Jim Brown & Barry were the exception. Doesn't mean a Ladanian, Walter or Emmett can't happen.
Back to this thread none of these RBs are of the elite status. In the right fit & system they might become elite but I can't say I see happening as of today

cazzie33 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:34 pm Consensus & Common Sense is rarely combined in these discussions

Arguing JT was ever on a par w/ Saquon as a prospect or all around talent is an end of discussion non sequitur. We're not dealing with facts @ that point

Also if someone has a better career doesn't mean he was the more talented or better player. Colts line, QB , OC were all better than any Saquon has had in his brief time.

Is there a single NFL GM or HC that would choose JT over Barkley in any scheme or fit. Even the Wisconsin HC would take Saquon 1st. You don't go 3rd RB in your draft if you ARE the consensus best all around back.

Doesn't mean JT can't go on to a HOF career but he wasn't considered a generational talent. Zeke, OJ, Ricky Williams, Earl ... Those guys along with Jim Brown & Barry were the exception. Doesn't mean a Ladanian, Walter or Emmett can't happen.
Back to this thread none of these RBs are of the elite status. In the right fit & system they might become elite but I can't say I see happening as of today

For what its worth, I was never comparing JT to Saquon. Don't think anyone Is arguing over that

cazzie33 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:34 pm Consensus & Common Sense is rarely combined in these discussions

Arguing JT was ever on a par w/ Saquon as a prospect or all around talent is an end of discussion non sequitur. We're not dealing with facts @ that point

Also if someone has a better career doesn't mean he was the more talented or better player. Colts line, QB , OC were all better than any Saquon has had in his brief time.

Is there a single NFL GM or HC that would choose JT over Barkley in any scheme or fit. Even the Wisconsin HC would take Saquon 1st. You don't go 3rd RB in your draft if you ARE the consensus best all around back.

Doesn't mean JT can't go on to a HOF career but he wasn't considered a generational talent. Zeke, OJ, Ricky Williams, Earl ... Those guys along with Jim Brown & Barry were the exception. Doesn't mean a Ladanian, Walter or Emmett can't happen.
Back to this thread none of these RBs are of the elite status. In the right fit & system they might become elite but I can't say I see happening as of today

In what way was LT not a generational prospect?

Coming out of college he wasn't ... Being old enough to have "been there" as a fantasy football devotee he was one of three guys (some even had Lamont Jordan in consideration) as top rb in the draft.

Michael Bennett of Wisconsin and Deuce McCalister of Miss were liked by some as well. Deuce was banged up which gave doubts as to his durability in his senior year. Bennett (like all Wisconsin backs) had concerns about his passing game skills . Tomlinson was thought maybe to be the product of a gimmicky offense and played in a WAC conference (pun intended) after TCU was left scrambling after the Southwest Conference fell apart.
It wasn't until he ran better than expected @ the combine and showed good hands in passing drills that he was the leading RB. Bennett struggled in drills but ran faster so some still thought he may go first. Deuce still had medical concerns. Chargers were worst team in football on & off the field. Holding the first pick they couldn't strike a deal w/ M. Vick and Drew Henson had signed up for the Yankees extension so he wasn't an option either as the new QB face of the franchise. So they traded out to number 5 I believe w/ Falcons. They ended up going with LT.

In the 2nd rd the Chargers drafted their new QB for the future ... Drew Brees.

This year's draft is reminiscent w/ 3 guys who kinda mirror the 2001 RBs. Etienne is the pure speed guy like Bennett but w/ better hands. Najee is the Deuce big back that is well rounded but not as fast. Javonte comes from the lesser lg & program that causes some to dismiss his college stats as his team was more talented than the lg competition across the board. If Williams had run faster maybe he'd be a better comp to LT and likewise be the 1st rb off the board. LT ran a 4.4 instead of mid 4.5s which ultimately made the difference.

He was the second best LT on the planet without a doubt!

The Taylor thing is all over the place. Here’s what happened.

First, there’s a difference between “what the fantasy community thinks,” “what happened in the NFL draft,” and “what the best evidence shows.” A lot of the conversation regarding Taylor has conflated these concepts.

The fantasy community was all over the place on Taylor. Some folks had him as a top tier prospect, behind only Barkley in recent memory, because that’s what the best evidence showed. Other people didn’t understand what made him so great, wrongly focused on complete nonsense like imaginary fumbling concerns, whether or not he could “sink his hips,” jersey scouting, and looking at raw receiving totals instead of his percentage receiving totals in Wisconsin’s offense, some even calling Taylor “the most overrated player” in the class. When he went in the second round and two of the 32 teams- KC and Detroit- revealed that they had at least one RB ranked above Taylor, these people took what happened in the NFL draft as vindication.

The problem is that NFL teams get it wrong ALL. THE. TIME. The fact that the NFL and half the fantasy community were wrong about Taylor does not change that he has always had the profile of an outstanding* NFL prospect. The nearly unmatched combination of collegiate production and athleticism was always there in plain sight. This isn’t “revisionist history.” Taylor was always great, some of you realized it from the beginning, and some of you just were wrong about it. There is absolutely nobody in this RB class who has a profile that compares to Taylor’s.


*I’m using “outstanding” instead of “generational” because Taylor was literally not a generational prospect if the word means “once in a generation.” No RB, not even Barkley, is really a generational prospect. Pitts is a generational TE prospect- there’s really nobody comparable in recent history at the position. LeBron James was a generational NBA prospect. Words matter.

OhCruelestRanter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:04 am The problem is that NFL teams get it wrong ALL. THE. TIME. The fact that the NFL and half the fantasy community were wrong about Taylor does not change that he has always had the profile of an outstanding* NFL prospect.

The teams that didn't draft Taylor may not have gotten it wrong; they just had bigger needs or thought other RBs fit them better like the Chiefs with CEH. I'm sure most if not all thought he was a real talent, but there are a lot of factors at play.

Pac_Eddy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:10 am

OhCruelestRanter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:04 am The problem is that NFL teams get it wrong ALL. THE. TIME. The fact that the NFL and half the fantasy community were wrong about Taylor does not change that he has always had the profile of an outstanding* NFL prospect.

The teams that didn't draft Taylor may not have gotten it wrong; they just had bigger needs or thought other RBs fit them better like the Chiefs with CEH. I'm sure most if not all thought he was a real talent, but there are a lot of factors at play.

This is a fair characterization, but I think we’re splitting hairs.

I also wonder if we’re ever going to see a top 5 RB again; I think the NFL is getting smarter in that regard.

the 2021 Rookie Tiers thread . . . presented by Jonathan Taylor arguments!

Pac_Eddy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:10 am

OhCruelestRanter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:04 am The problem is that NFL teams get it wrong ALL. THE. TIME. The fact that the NFL and half the fantasy community were wrong about Taylor does not change that he has always had the profile of an outstanding* NFL prospect.

The teams that didn't draft Taylor may not have gotten it wrong; they just had bigger needs or thought other RBs fit them better like the Chiefs with CEH. I'm sure most if not all thought he was a real talent, but there are a lot of factors at play.

Exactly why there never was consensus on Taylor. Don't remember anyone claiming Taylor couldn't play in the 500 or so threads he has now tirelessly found his way into so his fan club can sing his praises.

OhCruelestRanter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:19 am

Pac_Eddy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:10 am

OhCruelestRanter wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:04 am The problem is that NFL teams get it wrong ALL. THE. TIME. The fact that the NFL and half the fantasy community were wrong about Taylor does not change that he has always had the profile of an outstanding* NFL prospect.

The teams that didn't draft Taylor may not have gotten it wrong; they just had bigger needs or thought other RBs fit them better like the Chiefs with CEH. I'm sure most if not all thought he was a real talent, but there are a lot of factors at play.

This is a fair characterization, but I think we’re splitting hairs.

I also wonder if we’re ever going to see a top 5 RB again; I think the NFL is getting smarter in that regard.

If a team thinks an RB is of the generational talent, then it is quite likely they will. Just in the last 20 years alone there have been 9 top 5 RB selections. Sure there was not one in 19/20 but there have been 2-4 year gaps before. Not sure about the 2022 class but maybe 2023 will see a top 5 RB. Bijan Robinson is already getting a lot of hype from my limited experience.

Top Five Talent still must have a Top Five team in need of their skillset. Pitts could be this year's example if teams all trade up for the QBs.

Clearly there's about 8 guys who could go top 5 or more if you want to call Mac Jones a top 5 talent ( I don't)

The "generational" guy will get drafted there regardless because someone will trade up into the spot to get them if the original pick holder has other needs

A.P. was 7th but had injury concerns. Herschel & Bo both had other contractual issues that kept them out also but those three were generational coming out

I heard about Elijah Mitchell for the first time today ... anything to see here or is he Kalen Ballage 2.0?

Forza_Azzurri wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:44 pm I heard about Elijah Mitchell for the first time today ... anything to see here or is he Kalen Ballage 2.0?

He's not a very physical back, but I can see a path towards success here. He's surprisingly elusive for his size, though his competition surely helped in that regard. Pretty good in the passing game too. Opportunity obviously means everything for him though. I'd love to see him in a Shanahan tree offense