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https://forum.dynastyleaguefootball.com/viewtopic.php?t=208244
The thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.
Ha, Fulgham doing exactly what we thought he'd do when all of their weapons weren't dead.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 amThe thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.
*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*
OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.
Tbf, he did get a 2nd as well.Shankopotamus wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:06 amHa, Fulgham doing exactly what we thought he'd do when all of their weapons weren't dead.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 amThe thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.
*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*
OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.
He has six straight seasons of 1000+ yards and his production to this point is only in the class of HOF caliber receivers. If he continues his pace, he'll certainly have an argument.Sriracha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:32 pmTbf, he did get a 2nd as well.Shankopotamus wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:06 amHa, Fulgham doing exactly what we thought he'd do when all of their weapons weren't dead.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am
The thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.
*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*
OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.
And it’s not as if Evans is lighting the world on fire.
Also... can we stop these ridiculous takes calling Evans a HoFer? He’s very good, but let’s not get crazy here
He's on pace for 818 yards.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm He has six straight seasons of 1000+ yards and his production to this point is only in the class of HOF caliber receivers. If he continues his pace, he'll certainly have an argument.
What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. TB suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically. Negative game script doesn't create HOF WRs. Evans was a Top 10 pick after an excellent college career and immediately translated that as a pro.Sriracha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:55 pmHe's on pace for 818 yards.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm He has six straight seasons of 1000+ yards and his production to this point is only in the class of HOF caliber receivers. If he continues his pace, he'll certainly have an argument.
He's 3rd on the target pecking order behind Godwin and Antonio Brown (who just got with the team).
Antonio Brown is a HoF caliber WR... Evans is solid, but is very clearly a tier below and his raw counting stats have been inflated by playing his entire career in a production friendly environment (Terrible defense + DGAF QB = an incredible amount of passing game script).
Are we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT?Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm
What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. [This Team] suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically.
I, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookieThe Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pmAre we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT?Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm
What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. [This Team] suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically.
You mean the 3rd round rookie that is currently being spoken of as the second coming of AB? .....Nice downplay.Krypto_King wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pmI, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookieThe Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pmAre we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT?Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm
What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. [This Team] suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically.
Why is that bad logic?The Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:37 pmYou mean the 3rd round rookie that is currently being spoken of as the second coming of AB? .....Nice downplay.Krypto_King wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pmI, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookieThe Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm
Are we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT?
Box up your thinking anyway you like. The logic, with all things considered, don’t speak to a selective truth. I think we would all agree that Pittsburgh also has an embarrassment of riches at WR currently (per usual). And to be 100% honest James Washington > Scottie Miller. No dynasty manager would trade Diontae, Claypool, Juju and Washington for AB, Evans, Godwin and Miller at this point in time. Not 1 person.
But to stay on topic when it comes to Evans vs Fulgham I just think it’s funny how if Brady spreads the ball around we can understand and acknowledge that it’s because his WR group is good. However, on that same note if Wentz, Big Ben, or some no name other PIT QB spreads the ball around, or makes bad decisions it’s an immediate indication that guys like Fulgham or Juju “aren’t good”. Its a joke. We have the capacity to understand that a QBs decisions/performance don’t completely reflect a WRs talent. However, it seems like time and time again people in this community selectively believe things in a vacuum only when it validates their narrative of a player. IE - Evans gets a pass because “he has performed before and I know he will bounce back”, but Juju and Fulgham underperform and they get faded without any real consideration of the full story? How’s that not dogma in action?
Its not good or bad logic. Its just selective and flawed to think that situations impacting a players performance is a negative for one player and not for another player.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:10 amWhy is that bad logic?The Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:37 pmYou mean the 3rd round rookie that is currently being spoken of as the second coming of AB? .....Nice downplay.Krypto_King wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pm
I, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookie
Box up your thinking anyway you like. The logic, with all things considered, don’t speak to a selective truth. I think we would all agree that Pittsburgh also has an embarrassment of riches at WR currently (per usual). And to be 100% honest James Washington > Scottie Miller. No dynasty manager would trade Diontae, Claypool, Juju and Washington for AB, Evans, Godwin and Miller at this point in time. Not 1 person.
But to stay on topic when it comes to Evans vs Fulgham I just think it’s funny how if Brady spreads the ball around we can understand and acknowledge that it’s because his WR group is good. However, on that same note if Wentz, Big Ben, or some no name other PIT QB spreads the ball around, or makes bad decisions it’s an immediate indication that guys like Fulgham or Juju “aren’t good”. Its a joke. We have the capacity to understand that a QBs decisions/performance don’t completely reflect a WRs talent. However, it seems like time and time again people in this community selectively believe things in a vacuum only when it validates their narrative of a player. IE - Evans gets a pass because “he has performed before and I know he will bounce back”, but Juju and Fulgham underperform and they get faded without any real consideration of the full story? How’s that not dogma in action?
Evans was a Top-10 draft pick who went on to post 3 WR1 seasons. Overall, he has five seasons where he's finished as a Top-20 WR and 4 of those were Top-15. He has a proven record of elite production.
Fulgham is a 25-year-old UDFA WR. He's had some good games, but he has no floor to fall back on, nor does he have a ceiling to cling to. And I've actually liked what I've seen from him, but nobody really knows what his future is. Sure, he could stick in the NFL as a decent WR, but he could just as easily be fantasy irrelevant.
Considering that, trading Evans for Fulgham and a 2nd is awful, awful value because it took one person to value Evans as similar to an UDFA WR who had a few good games. I'm all for getting your guy, but there are certainly better ways to get Fulgham.
And that's because of results. Evans has proven his worth and value as a player and Fulgham has not. Evans is facing WR1 coverage each game with Godwin and Brown on the field. Fulgham is not.The Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:23 pm
Its not good or bad logic. Its just selective and flawed to think that situations impacting a players performance is a negative for one player and not for another player.
For example...if Fulgham and Evans swapped teams and production the way we evaluated their situations and production would completely change. With Evans we would easily point out how he still led the Eagles in targets the last 2 games despite only 2 catches. We would point out how terribly inaccurate and inconsistent Carson has been all season. Evans would take less blame and be given more credit. On the flip side, we would argue the Fulgham is inconsistent because he is clearly the number 3 option in the offense. We would argue that once Chris Godwin came back he would take a back seat. Not only that, we would justify it. We would give Fulgham more blame and less credit. My point is not that Fulgham deserves the same consideration as Evans, but I am saying that the way we evaluate each situation is moreso based on our beliefs about the players than it is about the actual situation and the variables that factor into it.
I think the variables are the exact reason people are less concerned about Evans than Fulgham. Evans didn't get his first real opportunity this season. He's has opportunity and produced every season. You don't have a HOF trajectory for the first 5 years and just become crap because you have a QB who prefers to throw it short when you succeed deep. For context is Evans was in Fulgham's situation I think it's safe to say the Eagles would lean heavily on him and he would put up better numbers than Fulgham. Fulgham looks good enough but he definitely wouldn't be able to play the role Evans does in Tampa, he's closer in talent to another Bucs WR Scotty Miller than he is to Evans.The Godwin Complex wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:23 pm
Its not good or bad logic. Its just selective and flawed to think that situations impacting a players performance is a negative for one player and not for another player.
For example...if Fulgham and Evans swapped teams and production the way we evaluated their situations and production would completely change. With Evans we would easily point out how he still led the Eagles in targets the last 2 games despite only 2 catches. We would point out how terribly inaccurate and inconsistent Carson has been all season. Evans would take less blame and be given more credit. On the flip side, we would argue the Fulgham is inconsistent because he is clearly the number 3 option in the offense. We would argue that once Chris Godwin came back he would take a back seat. Not only that, we would justify it. We would give Fulgham more blame and less credit. My point is not that Fulgham deserves the same consideration as Evans, but I am saying that the way we evaluate each situation is moreso based on our beliefs about the players than it is about the actual situation and the variables that factor into it.
I think TBs WRs are clearly better, which isn't a knock on PITs.jman3134 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:05 am 6th round pick, but your point is valid. I like Fulgham and Evans. I think Evans is many tiers above but in a bad situation for fantasy production this year. Fulgham should have a role in the Eagles offense moving forward.
In terms of TB receivers vs Steelers, I would say TB receivers are arguably better now, just not for dynasty purposes because of the age gaps.