Let's talk... JuJu Smith-Schuster

[FantasyFreak]

This is assuming JuJu is a "stud" though.

The production so far indicates that he is.

The production playing #2 to AB with Ben under center indicated that he could be. His production as a #1 with Ben or Rudolph this year does not indicate that he actually is a legitimate #1 option and he is being outplayed by a rookie to date. All this may change, but just sitting around saying Juju is going to be fine without actually questioning it is just another severe case of ownership bias. I would be worried if I valued Juju as my #1 WR.

No he's not. How do you figure that? Less, receptions yards and Fantasy Points for the rookie, and the rookie is certainly not the focal point of the D the way Juju is. The second Ben went down, the prospects for this entire offensive went with it this year. Juju will suffer statistically due to the emphasis D's put on him, and a QB downgrade, who won't try and stick the ball in to him in situations that Ben probably would have. I think Juju is still one of the best young WR's in the league, though.

[saw061600]

Knew there'd be a bunch of noise on this post. The analytical data says JuJu was and will continue to be a stud. I'm buying everywhere with confidence and happy to do so for a cheaper price.

[kmbryant09]

Those claiming that JuJu is not a stud and is struggling this year because of defensive attention and being the #1 guy - how much of his struggles can be attributed to QB play?

Even in the first two weeks, with the entire offense struggling, JuJu put up 11 / 162, which extrapolates to 88 / 1,300. And technically he only played 1.5 of those games with Big Ben...

[djeternal2]

If you are a JuJu believe you should be thrilled right now. This season will provide a buy low window similar to the season Nuk had with Brock Lobster.

[Goddard]

Who was the #2 in Pitt prior to AB? That WR was playing beside one of the all time best WRs as well, but I don't remember anyone putting up numbers like Juju did last year. This whole notion that AB made him who he was seems a little trivial. And to say that has been proven now after 4 games is even sillier. Lets give the guy a whole season, and maybe wait and see how Rudolph develops. I don't think Juju would be putting up the numbers from last year right now even if AB was still on the team with Rudolph quarterbacking.

[Goddard]

4 games into the season and we're convinced that Juju can't be the #1 guy? The first game against NE where even AB has struggled in the past and known for shutting down team's #1 WRs. And 2.5 games with Mason Rudolph as his QB...let's all just relax. How many other WR2s have put up the kind of numbers he did a year ago? Also, much lesser players are called studs on these forums everyday. I think there's actually a thread about that going on right now.

Well, Godwin comes to mind as a WR2 putting up some pretty good numbers. I personally can't consider Juju a stud until he proves he can be productive without a WR1 drawing most of the attention.

Godwin has been in the league the same amount of time as Juju. Played alongside a very good WR. Still hasn't had the year Juju did a year ago. Maybe this year he will...we'll see.

[moishetreats]

Okay, let's play the small sample-size game. You took JuJu's four-game stretch here in 2019 as proof that he isn't a stud without Brown. I'll take the first four games of JuJu's career that he played without Brown.

2017, Week 16: 6 / 75 / 1 (7 targets)
2017, Week 17: 9 / 143 / 1 (10 targets)
2017, Week 17: 5 / 37 / 1 (10 targets)
2018, Week 1: 6 / 78 / 0 (8 targets)

That adds to a four-game stretch of 26 / 333 / 3 (35 targets), for a projected 16-game line of 104 / 1,312 / 9 catching 74% of the balls thrown his way. Screams stud to me. Of course, those four games are relatively as arbitrary as the first four games of the season: you can't really extrapolate convincingly off a four-game sample size with major extenuating factors (the loss of Roethlisberger).

But, let's keep playing anyway. Take out the Cincy game and just focus on the first three games of the season (only half of which was with Roethlisberger). He would project for a 16-game stretch of 75 / 1,296 / 5 (70% catch rate). If you told me that Big Ben would play 1 1/2 games this year and that JuJu would finish would those numbers, then I'd take it in a second. He has to be damn good to put up those numbers (and his in-game stats were almost identical with and without Big Ben in the line-up over those first three games).

Bottom line #1) Cherry-picking a four game sample-set with extenuating circumstances gives us nothing conclusive. Not the first four games of 2019 nor the first four games that JuJu played without Brown.

Bottom line #2) JuJu has put up extraordinary numbers his first two years in the league -- extraordinary. It's hard for me to imagine what else a player needs to do to be considered a stud (or, minimally, on the clear and direct path to being called one).

[Jfever]

Ill add - juju is 22 years old.

[Ice]

Be that as it may but the reality is JuJu had 8 or fewer targets last year 3 times in 16 games.

This year at the quarter pole he has had 4 straight games of 8 or fewer targets.

We can all say anything to bolster a case but for this player 8 or fewer targets is not acceptable based on expectations as a WR1.

[FantasyFreak]

Be that as it may but the reality is JuJu had 8 or fewer targets last year 3 times in 16 games.

This year at the quarter pole he has had 4 straight games of 8 or fewer targets.

We can all say anything to bolster a case but for this player 8 or fewer targets is not acceptable based on expectations as a WR1.

For sure, but it isn't necessarily the players fault he's being targeted less. The Steelers threw the ball a ridiculous amount last year, and with Rudolph they have obviously tried to make things simple and utilize the running game to minimize his involvement as a first year starter. Had Ben been healthy, I think Juju would be looking at more targets and opportunities. It would be tough for any WR right now in that offense as the number 1.

[Pullo Vision]

No he's not. How do you figure that? Less, receptions yards and Fantasy Points for the rookie, and the rookie is certainly not the focal point of the D the way Juju is. The second Ben went down, the prospects for this entire offensive went with it this year. Juju will suffer statistically due to the emphasis D's put on him, and a QB downgrade, who won't try and stick the ball in to him in situations that Ben probably would have. I think Juju is still one of the best young WR's in the league, though.

Everyone was worried about the Brees to Bridgewater downgrade, but Roethlisberger to Rudolph seems to have had a bigger impact.

[Space Cowboy]

Benching him would not be a wise move. He'll blow up any week now. Look at Diggs last week, ppl wanted to bench him and/or give him away and then he went 7/104.

[Ice]

Be that as it may but the reality is JuJu had 8 or fewer targets last year 3 times in 16 games.

This year at the quarter pole he has had 4 straight games of 8 or fewer targets.

We can all say anything to bolster a case but for this player 8 or fewer targets is not acceptable based on expectations as a WR1.

For sure, but it isn't necessarily the players fault he's being targeted less. The Steelers threw the ball a ridiculous amount last year, and with Rudolph they have obviously tried to make things simple and utilize the running game to minimize his involvement as a first year starter. Had Ben been healthy, I think Juju would be looking at more targets and opportunities. It would be tough for any WR right now in that offense as the number 1.

The point wasn't to blame JuJu but regardless, his production is obviously causing concern. I don't have any skin in the game on JuJu because I took a wait and see approach given his draft position but if he continues on this path I would buy him when his rates are more reasonable.

I will predict he will have a tough time finishing in the top 15 - 18 range at this rate given the array of circumstances facing him this season.

At this point a 10 player drop is significant given most had him going the other way from his top 8 finish last season.

[Straycatz2]

Would you trade away golladay for juju?
What are people offering to try and get juju?

[Shcritters]

Would you trade away golladay for juju?
What are people offering to try and get juju?

If you can do that you absolutely have to. At a minimum JuJu is 4 years younger and is the equivalent player. That’s the minimum...