Cooper Kupp - Value Up?

[AZK]

-A study in 2011 found that the 40, vert, 20 yd shuttle, and 3 cone had little to do with predicting future NFL performance and that college performance was a much better indicator.

-Quote from Daniel Jeremiah, former scout and analyst: "The position where the 40 holds the most weight is cornerback. If you're a receiver who runs a 4.6 like (Anquan) Boldin, but you have short-area quickness and strong hands, the 40 isn't a big deal." 3-cone and 20 yd shuttle are the best drills to show short-area quickness, anything under 7 seconds for the 3-cone is decent, Kupp ran a 6.75, for the shuttle you want about 4.20 seconds, Kupp ran a 4.08

-fantastic college production, broke several FCS records including Jerry Rice's all-division career yards record in his first 3 years (39 games to Rice's 42), the career reception record, and the career TD reception record (by no means am I even suggesting that Kupp is the next Jerry Rice but Rice also coincidentally ran about a 4.6s 40)

-gets open easily in the short-mid range so he's an easy safety blanket for Goff on a team that has a very poor OL (and already bailed him out last week when Goff was under pressure)

-also due to the poor OL the Rams should have more trouble than most teams running the ball and a great way of covering that up is with short passes near the LoS, should lead to a high volume of targets

-if Goff can prove that last year was just a bad year for him and that Fisher was largely responsible by performing well this year then Kupp has a solid young QB to develop with

Nicely supported, SORBs.
Do you happen to have a link to that 2011 study?

2nd Valhalla here nice work SORB, I am also interested in taking a look at this study if you have a link.

[rubber_duck]

I see Kupp as a guy that has the talent to start in the NFL. He should be his QB's best friend and have a reasonably high production floor (maybe 700 yards & 4-5 TDs). That would make him a decent WR3 or bye week guy at the very least.

His upside could be based on volume. That's a red-flag for some on this message board, but I see nothing wrong with a high-volume receiver. If the team makes him a key part of the offense and feeds him the ball, then he could be a 900-1,000 yard type of guy. The camp talk seems to be trending in this direction, so this may be where the "hype" is coming from.

He may have a second path to significant upside. Kupp was good at breaking tackles in college and gaining extra yardage. If that can carry over against NFL level defenses then he might move up into the WR2 range. This is something we can watch for early in the season and make a relatively fast determination on.

(just my 2 cents)

[kamihamster]

From his draft profile, when you can look at what guys have done against top tier players it helps when you are unsure whether they have the metrics for the next stage.

"In 2014, he punked both Marcus Peters and Sidney Jones when he took on Washington. Two first-round talents. You tell me if he's going to be a starter." -- South regional scout for AFC team

I think he is a solid football player. I see him producing a lot of volume much like Taywan Taylor (different players but can do the same things for their offenses in the league and be that volume slot guy).

Also, I think the main hype for him was last year. It's been real quiet on him in a long time, I think people are just expecting him to be about what he will be now.

along with SORBs said regarding college production vs metrics and the hype is well deserved. He's faced NFL caliber players and schooled them. That's all I need to know.

[jcc6fd]

I'm not going to say that Kupp won't have a good NFL career. But if we're strictly talking about they hype surrounding him being greater than his actual prospects I have to agree.

To answer the OPs question of why: he was drafted by a team with no clear-cut number 1 WR so everyone was trying to bet on the upside of him winning that job. Had very little to do with Kupp himself. I'm sure I'll get flack from Kupp lovers who say "I loved him before he was born" and I'm sure you did. But the ADP and the majority of dynasty players ranking him highly did it solely based on opportunity, just like every other dynasty decision they make.

[dm1129]

The tone of much of this thread is a little amusing to me. Kupp has been extremely good upon arriving to the Rams. The problem many fantasy owners have with WRs like Kupp is they do not understand how much nuance there can be to playing the position of WR. Fantasy owners love to latch onto tangible easy to see athleticism. This is why players like DGB are still discussed in these forums ad nauseum. Kupp is a student of the game. He already had a very good understanding of offensive concepts outside of his own position. He not only understands route concepts, he understands route combinations and how other receivers are going to affect his route. He makes adjustments on the fly based on this knowledge. In this sense, he is already a polished veteran. He is a technician and runs excellent routes. If you have ever listened to him discuss playing WR, you will quickly understand he is dead serious about his craft. Lastly, simply watch him play. The evidence is there for all to see.

[_yeti]

Agree with the above. Also I think there is a tendency here to look down on WR2/WR3s. As we all load up on the OBJ, Evans, ABs of the world and get 5 guys like that on our roster, a guy like Kupp becomes something we don't need. If you have a strong team that is actually weak at WR a player like Kupp can pay off by being cheap in comparison to the production he can offer you.

If you have 5 WR1s you dont need him but that doesn't mean he has no value to someone else.

[StableOfRBs]

-A study in 2011 found that the 40, vert, 20 yd shuttle, and 3 cone had little to do with predicting future NFL performance and that college performance was a much better indicator.

-Quote from Daniel Jeremiah, former scout and analyst: "The position where the 40 holds the most weight is cornerback. If you're a receiver who runs a 4.6 like (Anquan) Boldin, but you have short-area quickness and strong hands, the 40 isn't a big deal." 3-cone and 20 yd shuttle are the best drills to show short-area quickness, anything under 7 seconds for the 3-cone is decent, Kupp ran a 6.75, for the shuttle you want about 4.20 seconds, Kupp ran a 4.08

-fantastic college production, broke several FCS records including Jerry Rice's all-division career yards record in his first 3 years (39 games to Rice's 42), the career reception record, and the career TD reception record (by no means am I even suggesting that Kupp is the next Jerry Rice but Rice also coincidentally ran about a 4.6s 40)

-gets open easily in the short-mid range so he's an easy safety blanket for Goff on a team that has a very poor OL (and already bailed him out last week when Goff was under pressure)

-also due to the poor OL the Rams should have more trouble than most teams running the ball and a great way of covering that up is with short passes near the LoS, should lead to a high volume of targets

-if Goff can prove that last year was just a bad year for him and that Fisher was largely responsible by performing well this year then Kupp has a solid young QB to develop with

Nicely supported, SORBs.
Do you happen to have a link to that 2011 study?

2nd Valhalla here nice work SORB, I am also interested in taking a look at this study if you have a link.

Already posted the link earlier but it's a study in a college textbook so it's behind a paywall, not spending like 40 bucks to read the whole thing

[ninotoreS]

Why the hype? Because he's a special player.

Cooper Kupp is basically white Jerry Rice (you laugh, but the parallels between the two players are numerous once you throw out skin pigment). Granted a lot of Kupp's dynasty potential rides on Goff not being awful, and Watkins not being a target hog.

As for Les Snead, it's true he isn't a great GM, but it seems plainly apparent to me Sean McVay had by far the most say with the '17 draft class selections. We can already see clearly that McVay is blatantly attempting to recreate the offense he left behind in Washington, and he's immediately shunning Tavon Austin, a Les Snead draft pick and 40 million dollar contract extension from just last year... so like I said, it seems pretty obvious to me Snead has lost seniority with personnel decisions. He's doing whatever McVay tells him to do, and hoping Kroenke will let him keep his job.

Kupp is a slow slot receiver with decent hands

Two quick points:

1.) The notion he's strictly slot-only is a myth. He has the size and play-strength for the perimeter, and despite his 40 time he's ingenious at getting DBs to turn their hips the wrong way on vertical routes. He got behind defenses plenty on the perimeter in college; he had 5.x yards per route run on the outside (like all of his FCS stats, that number is stupid-gaudy). Oh, and in the first preseason game, Kupp was moving all over the formation. Just like he did in college. I don't question that Kupp will more often than not be in the slot in the pros, but I personally won't be surprised at all if he's the starter in 2-wide ahead of Woods by '18.

2.) 'Deccent hands'? My friend, Cooper Kupp has the best hands in this draft class, and likely the last few draft classes. I mean, I definitely think Odell Beckham's hands are better, and probably Nuk's... and that's about it. SuctionKupp's hands are right there with Antonio Brown's. Yeah, I said it.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

The tone of much of this thread is a little amusing to me. Kupp has been extremely good upon arriving to the Rams. The problem many fantasy owners have with WRs like Kupp is they do not understand how much nuance there can be to playing the position of WR. Fantasy owners love to latch onto tangible easy to see athleticsim. This is why players like DGB are still discussed in these forums ad nauseum. Kupp is a student of the game. He already had a very good understanding of offensive concepts outside of his own position. He not only understands route concepts, he understands route combinations and how other receivers are going to affect his route. He makes adjustments on the fly based on this knowledge. In this sense, he is already a polished veteran. He is a technician and runs excellent routes. If you have ever listened to him discuss playing WR, you will quickly understand he is dead serious about his craft. Lastly, simply watch him play. The evidence is there for all to see.

thread winner.

.

[_yeti]

Why the hype? Because he's a special player.

Cooper Kupp is basically white Jerry Rice (you laugh, but the parallels between the two players are numerous once you throw out skin pigment). Granted a lot of Kupp's dynasty potential rides on Goff not being awful, and Watkins not being a target hog.

As for Les Snead, it's true he isn't a great GM, but it seems plainly apparent to me Sean McVay had by far the most say with the '17 draft class selections. We can already see clearly that McVay is blatantly attempting to recreate the offense he left behind in Washington, and he's immediately shunning Tavon Austin, a Les Snead draft pick and 40 million dollar contract extension from just last year... so like I said, it seems pretty obvious to me Snead has lost seniority with personnel decisions. He's doing whatever McVay tells him to do, and hoping Kroenke will let him keep his job.

Kupp is a slow slot receiver with decent hands

Two quick points:

1.) The notion he's strictly slot-only is a myth. He has the size and play-strength for the perimeter, and despite his 40 time he's ingenious at getting DBs to turn their hips the wrong way on vertical routes. He got behind defenses plenty on the perimeter in college; he had 5.x yards per route run on the outside (like all of his FCS stats, that number is stupid-gaudy). Oh, and in the first preseason game, Kupp was moving all over the formation. Just like he did in college. I don't question that Kupp will more often than not be in the slot in the pros, but I personally won't be surprised at all if he's the starter in 2-wide ahead of Woods by '18.

2.) 'Deccent hands'? My friend, Cooper Kupp has the best hands in this draft class, and likely the last few draft classes. I mean, I definitely think Odell Beckham's hands are better, and probably Nuk's... and that's about it. SuctionKupp's hands are right there with Antonio Brown's. Yeah, I said it.

I like Kupp a lot but those are some bold statements! I don't know if I am ready to go that far but for the league I drafted him in, I hope you are right!

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

the next good wr les snead drafts will be the 1st one so color me skeptical , not from missouri but the rams used to be so he will need to prove it before I invest . jeff fisher has been a convenient and deserving punching bag for the rams offensive woes but snead has been the GM for 6 drafts and the time period has encompassed some truly horrid offensive players .
might be terrific but my guess is JAG !

jeff fisher hired les snead, not the other way around. les snead was hired to get the players fisher wanted. and he got the exact type of players fisher covets, high upside athletes. them being good football players was irrelevant to fisher, he would coach them up, haha. that's how you end up with players like brian quick at the top of the 2nd round and greg robinson with the #2 pick in one of the best top heavy draft classes ever seen.

just look at the difference in the wr corps once mcvay turned up. jeff fisher would never dream of trading for watkins.

so the rams went from austin, britt, quick, marquez, cooper in fisher's 5th year to watkins, woods, austin, kupp, cooper, reynolds the very next season when mcvay took charge. snead gets the players the hc wants.

i'm of the belief that goff was not a fisher pick. the way he pandered to case keenum confirmed it. such a jeff fisher move.

.

[sugbear65]

Why the hype? Because he's a special player.

Cooper Kupp is basically white Jerry Rice (you laugh, but the parallels between the two players are numerous once you throw out skin pigment). Granted a lot of Kupp's dynasty potential rides on Goff not being awful, and Watkins not being a target hog.

lol well I think we just found Kupp's new nickname. Call him "White Rice"

[Valhalla]

Why the hype? Because he's a special player.

Cooper Kupp is basically white Jerry Rice (you laugh, but the parallels between the two players are numerous once you throw out skin pigment). Granted a lot of Kupp's dynasty potential rides on Goff not being awful, and Watkins not being a target hog.

As for Les Snead, it's true he isn't a great GM, but it seems plainly apparent to me Sean McVay had by far the most say with the '17 draft class selections. We can already see clearly that McVay is blatantly attempting to recreate the offense he left behind in Washington, and he's immediately shunning Tavon Austin, a Les Snead draft pick and 40 million dollar contract extension from just last year... so like I said, it seems pretty obvious to me Snead has lost seniority with personnel decisions. He's doing whatever McVay tells him to do, and hoping Kroenke will let him keep his job.

Kupp is a slow slot receiver with decent hands

Two quick points:

1.) The notion he's strictly slot-only is a myth. He has the size and play-strength for the perimeter, and despite his 40 time he's ingenious at getting DBs to turn their hips the wrong way on vertical routes. He got behind defenses plenty on the perimeter in college; he had 5.x yards per route run on the outside (like all of his FCS stats, that number is stupid-gaudy). Oh, and in the first preseason game, Kupp was moving all over the formation. Just like he did in college. I don't question that Kupp will more often than not be in the slot in the pros, but I personally won't be surprised at all if he's the starter in 2-wide ahead of Woods by '18.

2.) 'Deccent hands'? My friend, Cooper Kupp has the best hands in this draft class, and likely the last few draft classes. I mean, I definitely think Odell Beckham's hands are better, and probably Nuk's... and that's about it. SuctionKupp's hands are right there with Antonio Brown's. Yeah, I said it.

And I thought that I liked Kupp...way to put it out there!

[Valhalla]

Why the hype? Because he's a special player.

Cooper Kupp is basically white Jerry Rice (you laugh, but the parallels between the two players are numerous once you throw out skin pigment). Granted a lot of Kupp's dynasty potential rides on Goff not being awful, and Watkins not being a target hog.

lol well I think we just found Kupp's new nickname. Call him "White Rice"

Brilliant

[Valhalla]

Since Jerry Rice is well known for using stickum, should he have been known as sticky rice?