Patrick Mahomes: The Best QB in the NFL & for Dynasty

[mild]

No disagreements there DD - except that those luxury picks are now "necessity" picks because they've failed to add anyone of true consequence to the WR room since they drafted Tyreek - and he's long gone.

(And it's not for lack of trying! Hardman, MVS, Skyy, Toney, J. Watson, dice roll on Ross, and now Rashee Rice...)

Tee Higgins and Michael Pittman being the next two immediate picks after CEH is particularly galling - if you're talking "Luxury" then that would have been it right there. "Take the RB that catches passes"... maybe just take the professional pass catcher then, if you're trying to juice Mahomes stats...

What's especially dumb about that is that they would have known all along that the Mahomes contract was about to severely limit their ability to retain their core - they gave it to him later that same offseason. And they still went 1st round RB anyway. Hilarious.

[Jigga94]

I think it’s because they treat those picks as “luxury” picks. What I mean is they are basically yolo’ing them. They let Mahomes pick CEH for goodness sake. The Skyy Moore pick was understandable but the rest are terrible. There’s no excuse for CEH over JT and Hardman over DK.

These teams/coaches also are constantly looking for a scheme fit instead of just taking the best players. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are identifying (poorly) which players will fit into their scheme the best instead of just taking the best player. Using CEH for example, they probably wanted a “pass catching” back. JT could also catch but not really as a “weapon”. So they draft CEH, but forgetting he’s a slow turd. But oh, he fits the scheme!!!

I think they fooled me with Skyy with this thinking also. I could have sworn he would be a target hog in this offense after seeing what JuJu did and him stepping into that role this year. For a team who airs it out so much you would expect at least a 2nd option ti be start able

[Cameron Giles]

Apart from pounding the table for Mahomes - I'm not convinced that GM Brett Veach has drafted one good offensive skill position player since assuming the position. (He doesn't get credit for the Mahomes/Hunt draft in 2017 as John Dorsey was still GM)

They've had a reputation for having "their guys" and going way off the consensus board. For a while there, we gave them the benefit of the doubt.

But when you make those kind of moves, you better be right - at least once!

And when even us lowly Dynasty peasants are scratching our heads going "First round RB, and you've gone Clyde over Taylor? What did we miss..." or "Hardman over Metcalf? Why would you do that..." or even just this year - "Who is Rashee Rice, and why wouldn't you take Marvin Mims / Josh Downs / Jalin Hyatt instead..."

Rice better hit (and to be fair he has looked promising thus far) because if he doesn't, they'll be looking at going 0-4 on Day 1/2 offensive players in the Veach era... and worse, it's finally affecting Mahomes, who is dying for a go-to option out there aside from 34 year old Travis Kelce.

I was wondering about this the other day. Some GMs are just bad at drafting skill position players. For example, Belichick's track record is awful and he's got another miss on his hands with Tyquan Thornton in 2022, who they drafted right before George Pickens.

Brett Veach may be next in line. He hasn't been good with premium draft capital or Day 3 picks on skill position talent.

Tremon Smith - STer
Darwin Thompson - Bad, but 6th round pick.
Mecole Hardman - Hadn't produced in college, overdrafted because of speed
Clyde Edwards-Helaire - Reached over better backs, and then didn't utilize his strengths in the passing game
Skyy Moore - Jury's still out, but not looking promising so far. Small school WR red flags?
Cornell Powell - (who?), but 5th round pick.
Isaiah Pacheco - Oh hey! Something.
Rashee Rice - ???

This feels like a team that's going to have to sign a FA WR to a big deal at some point.

[Shcritters]

People forget that the Hardman pick was when Hill was under investigation for child abuse and could have been completely out of the league. Aside from Hill they had nobody to stretch the field deep… so needed that field stretcher player. I do wonder if they would have made that same pick if Hill wasn’t under investigation.

Nevertheless, not a good track record. They need someone to hit… or they’ll have wasted the best QB in the modern era (aside from Brady).

[mild]

Clyde Edwards-Helaire - Reached over better backs, and then didn't utilize his strengths in the passing game
Isaiah Pacheco - Oh hey! Something.

This feels like a team that's going to have to sign a FA WR to a big deal at some point.

And with Clyde, the opportunity cost was truly immense - it could have been any number of more impactful players at positions we -know- matter more than RB.

We can call Pacheco "something" thanks to his hand in the Superbowl, for sure - but just talent-wise, I really don't see anything special. He's just one more player living off the superman they've got at QB.

To the bold - I just don't know if they'll have the cap AND draft capital to do it. Good WR's just don't hit the open market anymore - if you want them... you have to go trade for them. The best WRs available this FA were OBJ, Jakobi Meyers, and Juju.

I did wonder though... with all those small swings at trying to solve for WR... I wonder what the overall draft capital cost is, when you add it all up. If you combined it all, and then just went and used THAT value pick instead... gotta think that's a better usage of the capital, rather than this 8 man WR platoon they're currently deploying.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

People forget that the Hardman pick was when Hill was under investigation for child abuse and could have been completely out of the league. Aside from Hill they had nobody to stretch the field deep… so needed that field stretcher player. I do wonder if they would have made that same pick if Hill wasn’t under investigation.

Nevertheless, not a good track record. They need someone to hit… or they’ll have wasted the best QB in the modern era (aside from Brady).

DK Metcalf can’t stretch the field?

[Sriracha]

People forget that the Hardman pick was when Hill was under investigation for child abuse and could have been completely out of the league. Aside from Hill they had nobody to stretch the field deep… so needed that field stretcher player. I do wonder if they would have made that same pick if Hill wasn’t under investigation.

Nevertheless, not a good track record. They need someone to hit… or they’ll have wasted the best QB in the modern era (aside from Brady).

DK Metcalf can’t stretch the field?

Wasted the best QB in the modern era... en route to multiple Super Bowls

[mild]

Wasted the best QB in the modern era... en route to multiple Super Bowls

The fact that Mahomes is good enough to will these teams to success through sheer talent and force-of-will...

... does not make his GM exempt from scrutiny, especially when they appear to have seen 2022's WR room and said "yes... but what if we made it worse".

Especially when he's had 5 drafts on the job, and is yet to hit on a single "good" WR... which they could reeeeeally use right now...

Imagine if this GM was actually helping Mahomes out with his selections.

[StripesOfKC]

Wasted the best QB in the modern era... en route to multiple Super Bowls

The fact that Mahomes is good enough to will these teams to success through sheer talent and force-of-will...

... does not make his GM exempt from scrutiny, especially when they appear to have seen 2022's WR room and said "yes... but what if we made it worse".

Especially when he's had 5 drafts on the job, and is yet to hit on a single "good" WR... which they could reeeeeally use right now...

Imagine if this GM was actually helping Mahomes out with his selections.

That 2022 draft got us our CB1, EDGE1, FS, Strong side LB, CB4, CB3 and RB1

A year after 2021 got us a top 3 MLB, top 3 C, top 10 RG and quality TE2...all without a first (throw in starting LT if counting the first traded for Orlando Brown)

Yeah WR has been a struggle but we have a real defense for the first time in years thanks to Veach

Even the rookie first round EDGE from this year has had a good start

[mild]

That 2022 draft got us our CB1, EDGE1, FS, Strong side LB, CB4, CB3 and RB1

A year after 2021 got us a top 3 MLB, top 3 C, top 10 RG and quality TE2...all without a first (throw in starting LT if counting the first traded for Orlando Brown)

Yeah WR has been a struggle but we have a real defense for the first time in years thanks to Veach

Even the rookie first round EDGE from this year has had a good start

No argument with his job so far holistically. How can we? They've won 2/3 Superbowls in 5 years of Mahomes. That's unimpeachable. (Unin-Veachable)

But when it comes to finding offensive pieces, maybe he needs to hand the job off...

(Or maybe he already has, and that's exactly the problem)

I'm just saying. The scouting by this board is legitimately better than the scouting that's been going on in the KC front offense, for offensive skill position players, since Veach took the job. That doesn't give you a moment of pause? It would for me

[Sriracha]

Wasted the best QB in the modern era... en route to multiple Super Bowls

The fact that Mahomes is good enough to will these teams to success through sheer talent and force-of-will...

... does not make his GM exempt from scrutiny, especially when they appear to have seen 2022's WR room and said "yes... but what if we made it worse".

Especially when he's had 5 drafts on the job, and is yet to hit on a single "good" WR... which they could reeeeeally use right now...

Imagine if this GM was actually helping Mahomes out with his selections.

I do not buy for a single second that Mahomes is solely responsible for any of the Chiefs picks. Andy Reid thought CEH would be even better than Brian Westbrook and a lot of people in the NFL struggled to separate CEH's performance in isolation at LSU amidst one of the most talented college offenses ever assembled.

Their WR room is young and they have extremely limited cap space. Skyy Moore, Kadarius Toney ain't it but Rashee has shown some signs of encouragement.

I do not believe the Chiefs GM has done even an average job but Reid and Mahomes have made it work so far.. hard to argue given the amount of success they've had. Worth mentioning that Veach is the GM that drafted Mahomes, at least.

[StripesOfKC]

That 2022 draft got us our CB1, EDGE1, FS, Strong side LB, CB4, CB3 and RB1

A year after 2021 got us a top 3 MLB, top 3 C, top 10 RG and quality TE2...all without a first (throw in starting LT if counting the first traded for Orlando Brown)

Yeah WR has been a struggle but we have a real defense for the first time in years thanks to Veach

Even the rookie first round EDGE from this year has had a good start

No argument with his job so far holistically. How can we? They've won 2/3 Superbowls in 5 years of Mahomes. That's unimpeachable. (Unin-Veachable)

But when it comes to finding offensive pieces, maybe he needs to hand the job off...

(Or maybe he already has, and that's exactly the problem)

I'm just saying. The scouting by this board is legitimately better than the scouting that's been going on in the KC front offense, for offensive skill position players, since Veach took the job. That doesn't give you a moment of pause? It would for me

You weren’t high on Skyy Moore as a prospect?

I was very happy with that pick. Early breakout, early declare, good production and not that it matters a ton but good testing. Only thing missing was size which seems like isn’t as big a deal nowadays. I’m genuinely surprised he hasn’t been better. No comment on Hardman or Rice (though he looks way better than I expected him to)

[mild]

You weren’t high on Skyy Moore as a prospect?

I was very happy with that pick. Early breakout, early declare, good production and not that it matters a ton but good testing. Only thing missing was size which seems like isn’t as big a deal nowadays. I’m genuinely surprised he hasn’t been better. No comment on Hardman or Rice (though he looks way better than I expected him to)

I renamed my team "Reach for the Skyy" for that draft to see if it spooked any of the teams ahead of me at 1.08... and it worked...

I didn't mind the Skyy pick at all - although you'd have loved to have seen them get up 2 spots and grab George Pickens instead. Little bit of a difference between an SEC receiver and a MAC one, typically - though I appreciate that guys can come from anywhere. Only WR taken immediately after Skyy in that draft that's worthy of note thus far is Romeo Doubs. Jury is still out on Skyy, same as Rice, Ross, and even Toney to a degree - but it's hard to say that any of those guys have been solid "hits" yet, when you've got 5th round Puka running around out here breaking records, and Jalin Hyatt and Josh Downs and Marvin Mims all already making splash plays in the first 2 weeks.

My criticisms are more for the drafts we can absolutely say were failures now - both in the moment, and now, after the fact. Namely:

CEH over JT / Pittman / Tee Higgins
Hardman over DK Metcalf

Dynasty managers got roasted for making those same picks in those drafts. We all saw CEH go over Taylor in fantasy drafts. I think if dynasty managers are getting roasted for such things, then it's only fair to apply a little bit of roast to Brett Veach too...

[FantasyFreak]

That 2022 draft got us our CB1, EDGE1, FS, Strong side LB, CB4, CB3 and RB1

A year after 2021 got us a top 3 MLB, top 3 C, top 10 RG and quality TE2...all without a first (throw in starting LT if counting the first traded for Orlando Brown)

Yeah WR has been a struggle but we have a real defense for the first time in years thanks to Veach

Even the rookie first round EDGE from this year has had a good start

No argument with his job so far holistically. How can we? They've won 2/3 Superbowls in 5 years of Mahomes. That's unimpeachable. (Unin-Veachable)

But when it comes to finding offensive pieces, maybe he needs to hand the job off...

(Or maybe he already has, and that's exactly the problem)

I'm just saying. The scouting by this board is legitimately better than the scouting that's been going on in the KC front offense, for offensive skill position players, since Veach took the job. That doesn't give you a moment of pause? It would for me

You weren’t high on Skyy Moore as a prospect?

I was very happy with that pick. Early breakout, early declare, good production and not that it matters a ton but good testing. Only thing missing was size which seems like isn’t as big a deal nowadays. I’m genuinely surprised he hasn’t been better. No comment on Hardman or Rice (though he looks way better than I expected him to)

They should have taken Pickens. Didn't they trade back, behind the Steelers? Watching Mahomes to Pickens would have been something.

[Multiple Scorgasms]

This thread is really weird at the moment.

Anyway, the best thing about being a Chiefs fan in recent years is that they don't sit on their hands like many other good franchises sometimes or always do. If they see areas to improve they attack them aggressively. They turn over every rock. They have a standard.

It's too early to write Skyy off completely, WAY too early to dismiss Rice, and a guy like Toney was acquired for a middling pick. People talk like they traded a future 1st for him or something. If the overall level of play hasn't elevated by the deadline they'll do something, and if we hit the offseason and it was a major issue all year, then it'll be number 1 on Veach's to-do list. Which means you'll see at least 1, maybe 2 new studs in red next year. Same way he rebuilt the OL in one offseason after the prior one was gutted by injury, age and poor performance.

So this is a Mahomes dynasty thread? Yeah... he'll be JUST fine. Hell, I think I noticed yesterday he was like QB7 in our league, something like that, after 2 extremely atypical games for KC, including that 1st laugher with WR catching allergy. Don't worry, Jordan Love and his <400 yards and 6 TD will regress to the mean in the same way Mahomes will rise to the top.