Sell Now Players!!!

[hoos89]

Jackson kind of reminds me of rookie RG3.

If you mean body type, color, and height maybe but their games aren't really similar.

I mean...yeah they're 6-2 black QBs listed at 212-213 pounds, but bit ridiculous to they they're not similar beyond that.

RG3 rookie season passing: 26.2 attempts/game, 65.6% completion rate, 8.1 yards/attempt, 12.4 yards/completion, 4.0 TD/Int
Jackson 2019 season passing: 27.9 attempts/game, 66.3% completion rate, 8.1 yards/attempt, 12.2 yards/completion, 3.8 TD/Int
RG3 rookie season rushing: 8 attempts/game, 6.8 yards/rush
Jackson 2019 season rushing: 11.6 attempts/game, 6.7 yards/rush

Lot of similar stats, but Jackson rushes ~50% more. That's great for short term fantasy production, but not so great for longevity.

[MrUbuto]

Jackson kind of reminds me of rookie RG3.

If you mean body type, color, and height maybe but their games aren't really similar.

Disagree.

RG3 rookie season passing: 26.2 attempts/game, 65.6% completion rate, 8.1 yards/attempt, 12.4 yards/completion, 4.0 TD/Int
Jackson 2019 season passing: 27.9 attempts/game, 66.3% completion rate, 8.1 yards/attempt, 12.2 yards/completion, 3.8 TD/Int
RG3 rookie season rushing: 8 attempts/game, 6.8 yards/rush
Jackson 2019 season rushing: 11.6 attempts/game, 6.7 yards/rush

Lot of similar stats, but Jackson rushes ~50% more. That's great for short term fantasy production, but not so great for longevity.

Hrmmm.. That's definitely food for thought.

Maybe my memory is hazy or I'm just being blinded by the amazing highlights but it seems he is 10x better but the numbers don't lie

[hoos89]

RG3 lit the world on fire in 2012. People forget. Point of the comp is not to knock Jackson...just saying that a QB of his size who runs the ball as often as he does might not last.

[Mjvb5]

I don’t think the rg3 injury was as a result of his running the ball: might be wrong, feel free to correct me.
But wasn’t it some freak non contact injury or him running out of bounds or something like that? Imo it was more the I play on the redskins field a lot

[hoos89]

I don't think it's accurate to characterize that as a freak injury...his knee was already compromised from an injury a few weeks prior:

https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1853 ... 1574453777

[Patsfan86]

I understand Lamar rushes a lot but he avoids contact very well for the most part. Last week he did run into someone like a running back and i was like "NO DONT DO THAT!!!" but for the most part he no one makes contact with him. RG3 was different from what i remember and was always taking hits

[mild]

I understand Lamar rushes a lot but he avoids contact very well for the most part. Last week he did run into someone like a running back and i was like "NO DONT DO THAT!!!" but for the most part he no one makes contact with him. RG3 was different from what i remember and was always taking hits

This is more correct. RG3 had absolutely zero field vision - he wouldn't know a hole in the defense unless it was screaming at him in the face. He got hit in troubling ways A LOT.

Lamar is on the Kamara level if we're judging him strictly as a RB. His ability to see the space and work into it, then get out of bounds (something RG seemed loathe to do) or slide (ditto) tells me he's seen enough cautionary tales. Hell, that very man is sitting behind him in the QB room.

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/fanta ... l-forecast

If you want to actually educate yourself on the quality of the hits Lamar is taking, you can read about it at the bottom of this article here. The short version is that defensive players aren't monster-hitting him, because his ability to step them forces them to slow down once they've closed distance. He still gets hit, but it's arguably not even as bad as conventional QB's playing behind bad lines who are getting blindsided in the back (ie your Daltons, your Baker Mayfields)

If you want to hit Lamar, then you have to catch him first. And good luck with that. He is one of the most pocket-aware passers we've seen in a while, his mobility-into-escape is on another level already.

[hoos89]

What makes this guy think head first slides are safer? He just sort of...says it and then makes up a rationale to support the conclusion (without mentioning that QBs can be legally hit on head first slides but not feet first slides). He's just trying to reach the conclusion he wants...this is not persuasive.

Remember how Cam was going to last longer because he's built like a tank?

[Patsfan86]

What makes this guy think head first slides are safer? He just sort of...says it and then gives a way that he thinks they might be but there's no evidence. He's just trying to reach the conclusion he wants...this is not persuasive.

Remember how Cam was going to last longer because he's built like a tank?

Dont gloss over the overall point that Lamar doesnt take hits, Cam ran like a contact RB, thats why no one mentions Cam with Lamar, Two very different styles. Lamar doesnt do that. Watch the guy.

[hoos89]

I know that Lamar and Cam ran in different ways, but my point is that this argument comes up pretty much every time some new running QB lights up the league that this guy is different.

And again...this guy is just using his judgment decide what counts as a big hit, but he's showing obvious bias throughout, which tells me that he's probably not being a fair judge of what counts as a big hit. He wants to reach the conclusion that Lamar is good at avoiding big hits. He also doesn't really present anything to compare against....how often did RG3 or Cam take big hits by comparison?

Also...I think he undermines his point a bit at the end. Yes Jackson is good at avoiding dropback hits, but he's only 2.6 hits per game better than the very worst QB in the league at taking dropback hits. Meanwhile, he gets tackled 5 times per game on runs....which more than makes up the difference to worst QB in dropback hits.

[bjd5211]

What makes this guy think head first slides are safer? He just sort of...says it and then gives a way that he thinks they might be but there's no evidence. He's just trying to reach the conclusion he wants...this is not persuasive.

Remember how Cam was going to last longer because he's built like a tank?

Cam ran into and through people seeking contact, Lamar is running around and by people and avoiding contact as much as possible, they aren't very comparable.

At this point this not much point debating Lamar, if you liked him before this year you obviously love him now and if you didn't you haven't changed your mind. You've just changed your argument from "there's no way he can be a good enough passer" to "there's no way he can stay healthy" now that he's shown he's a competent passer and capable of developing that part of his game. There's not really anything any of us can say to change anyone's mind on him, and there are very few people that have truly come around to believing in Lamar if they didn't from the start. The most he'll likely ever get even if he's still successful 10 years from now is "He's been better than I thought but it's not going to last", and all the "Told ya so's" are going to come out at the first sign of trouble.

[hoos89]

What makes this guy think head first slides are safer? He just sort of...says it and then gives a way that he thinks they might be but there's no evidence. He's just trying to reach the conclusion he wants...this is not persuasive.

Remember how Cam was going to last longer because he's built like a tank?

Cam ran into and through people seeking contact, Lamar is running around and by people and avoiding contact as much as possible, they aren't very comparable. I'm not comparing Cam to Lamar so much as pointing out that people argued that Cam was different too.

At this point this not much point debating Lamar, if you liked him before this year you obviously love him now and if you didn't you haven't changed your mind. This is a bit reductive. I think people have generally increased their valuations of him whether they were a believer entering this season or not. I just think people who are putting him in the top 30-40 startup picks are not adequately pricing in injury risk. You've just changed your argument from "there's no way he can be a good enough passer" Sorry...when did I say this? to "there's no way he can stay healthy" now that he's shown he's a competent passer and capable of developing that part of his game. There's not really anything any of us can say to change anyone's mind on him, and there are very few people that have truly come around to believing in Lamar if they didn't from the start. The most he'll likely ever get even if he's still successful 10 years from now is "He's been better than I thought but it's not going to last", and all the "Told ya so's" are going to come out at the first sign of trouble. (1) He may well have a long an successful career, but I think he's significantly riskier than the average QB. That doesn't mean I think he's 100% guaranteed to suffer a catastrophic knee injury like RG3, but I think that's more likely to happen to him than to a pocket passer and should be priced in to his value. (2) He'll still be in "early retirement" range in 10 years (he'll be 32). (3) I'm sure if Jackson DOES get seriously injured at some point in the next few years you will be the first to admit you were wrong, right?

[bjd5211]

I wasn't saying you specifically said that, just talking in general about the Lamar critics.

[hoos89]

I wasn't saying you specifically, just talking in general.

You're essentially dismissing me because other people didn't like Jackson for a different reason in the past and/or characterizing all people who speak negatively of Jackson as a monolith. Also just because I think Jackson is an injury risk doesn't mean I don't think he's good.

[bjd5211]

I wasn't saying you specifically, just talking in general.

The people knocking Jackson are not a monolith.

And all your arguments are basically the exact same ones everyone in the Lamar thread are making.

Like I said there's not much point debating Lamar anymore cause each side just keeps making the same arguments and the only thing that will prove which side is "right" is time.