Dynasty League Football Forum

Arthritis doesn't really get better. It's an autoimmune disease where your body's immune system attacks the cartilage of your joints. Typically your immune system doesn't see cartilage, but due to injury, it can be exposed to it and develop an immune response to it. Once that happens, it will only get worse. Your body will constantly be attacking that exposed cartilage. You can take drugs that interrupt the immune response which will slow down the disease progression, but it won't repair the damage already done. You can take drugs that reduce swelling, a secondary response of the immune system, but that only helps reduce the pain and doesn't repair the damage done. You can take drugs to suppress the pain, but that doesn't repair the damage done.

Take that information about arthritis and combine it with the biggest game of the year, the Super Bowl. If there was ever a game to pump Gurley up with drugs, that was it. But he still hardly saw the field. He is past the point of no return. Any playing time he gets is just him toughing it out, enduring the pain. It will not get better. They can treat secondary symptoms, but the cause is only getting worse.

From what I've read about Henderson from people here and industry folks was that he's really good at some things and really weak at others. I trust McVay to use him in what he's good at and not to try and fit a round peg in a square hole. Read the tea leaves. Buy Henderson, Brown, or both.

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 am Take that information about arthritis and combine it with the biggest game of the year, the Super Bowl. If there was ever a game to pump Gurley up with drugs, that was it. But he still hardly saw the field. He is past the point of no return. Any playing time he gets is just him toughing it out, enduring the pain. It will not get better. They can treat secondary symptoms, but the cause is only getting worse.

The certainty with which you are speaking about Gurley's injury is crazy. Guess Gurley should just retire because "some guy on the internet" said so.

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:15 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 am Take that information about arthritis and combine it with the biggest game of the year, the Super Bowl. If there was ever a game to pump Gurley up with drugs, that was it. But he still hardly saw the field. He is past the point of no return. Any playing time he gets is just him toughing it out, enduring the pain. It will not get better. They can treat secondary symptoms, but the cause is only getting worse.

The certainty with which you are speaking about Gurley's injury is crazy. Guess Gurley should just retire because "some guy on the internet" said so.

Critique my science and logic.

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:31 am

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:15 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 am Take that information about arthritis and combine it with the biggest game of the year, the Super Bowl. If there was ever a game to pump Gurley up with drugs, that was it. But he still hardly saw the field. He is past the point of no return. Any playing time he gets is just him toughing it out, enduring the pain. It will not get better. They can treat secondary symptoms, but the cause is only getting worse.

The certainty with which you are speaking about Gurley's injury is crazy. Guess Gurley should just retire because "some guy on the internet" said so.

Critique my science and logic.

I know nothing about arthritis. What I do know is everyone thinks they're an expert on the internet about situations they know very little about. Do you not agree that you're doing exactly that?

What information do you have other than some articles or tweets you've read from other people who heard from other people who spoke with the doctors?

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:35 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:31 am

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:15 am

The certainty with which you are speaking about Gurley's injury is crazy. Guess Gurley should just retire because "some guy on the internet" said so.

Critique my science and logic.

I know nothing about arthritis. What I do know is everyone thinks they're an expert on the internet about situations they know very little about. Do you not agree that you're doing exactly that?

What information do you have other than some articles or tweets you've read from other people who heard from other people who spoke with the doctors?

Agreed, I have no more information of the details of Gurley's knee than the rest of the population outside of the Rams organization. I am only using the information I have, combined with knowledge of arthritis, combined with logic. While I am some guy on the internet, the science/medical information I have presented is no different than what a doctor would have presented. Until more information comes out, this is my working theory. I have made dynasty moves accordingly. You're just some guy on the internet critiquing some other guy on the internet, at least I back my point of view up with sound reasoning.

djeternal2 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:45 am

honcho55 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:19 am @djeternal2

Nah I think veteran starting QBs getting rested is light years different than a RB for preseason rest. And like I say, light/no preseason doesn’t worry me necessarily. It’s that he’s not on the practice field. Bottom line, at best he’s still in the RB1 convo for a bit, but his career longevity is very much in question, imo. At worst? Well, no need to go there.

Why is it light years different? Actually more teams should do it when they have top RBs since RBs careers are shorter and as Reggie Bush & other RBs have stated all RBs deal with knee issues. I don't see it as an indictment on Gurley instead a smart move by the team and one I expected coming into the offseason. Why chance greater injury to your stud RB in a meaningless game in preseason? It's similar to the NFL scrapping the flag football game in the sand after Robert Edwards blew out his knee and was told he may never walk again back in 98.

Well sure, why risk any starter at all in preseason? But it seems like veteran QBs getting time off for this reason is commonplace, and a good practice. A RB with questionable health not even on the practice field? Way different, imo. I mean what’s more alarming, if Guice isn’t practicing or if Brees isn’t practicing?

honcho55 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:50 am

djeternal2 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:45 am

honcho55 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:19 am @djeternal2

Nah I think veteran starting QBs getting rested is light years different than a RB for preseason rest. And like I say, light/no preseason doesn’t worry me necessarily. It’s that he’s not on the practice field. Bottom line, at best he’s still in the RB1 convo for a bit, but his career longevity is very much in question, imo. At worst? Well, no need to go there.

Why is it light years different? Actually more teams should do it when they have top RBs since RBs careers are shorter and as Reggie Bush & other RBs have stated all RBs deal with knee issues. I don't see it as an indictment on Gurley instead a smart move by the team and one I expected coming into the offseason. Why chance greater injury to your stud RB in a meaningless game in preseason? It's similar to the NFL scrapping the flag football game in the sand after Robert Edwards blew out his knee and was told he may never walk again back in 98.

Well sure, why risk any starter at all in preseason? But it seems like veteran QBs getting time off for this reason is commonplace, and a good practice. A RB with questionable health not even on the practice field? Way different, imo. I mean what’s more alarming, if Guice isn’t practicing or if Brees isn’t practicing?

Well that's apples and oranges. Brees has proven he knows the offense and that he can play in the NFL. Guice has not. Nowhere near a fair comparison. If you go Brees to Gurley I say neither is alarming. As I said before I think it would be smart for more teams to have their studs sit and not risk losing them in a meaningless game.

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:48 am at least I back my point of view up with sound reasoning.

sorry but even a doctor in medicine wouldn't come to any conclusion without having visited the subject, so your "sound reasoning" is based on bleep all really.

killer_of_giants wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:57 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:48 am at least I back my point of view up with sound reasoning.

sorry but even a doctor in medicine wouldn't come to any conclusion without having visited the subject, so your "sound reasoning" is based on bleep all really.

I've seen doctors come up with conclusions based off what an nurse told them. Personal experience doesn't hold much weight to you probably, but I dispute your statement. I'm not trying to diagnose Gurley, or tell him how to play out his career. I'm only trying to make hypothesis based off the information we have to project his fantasy production, take it as that.

I'm with Super Mariota on this one. With the info we have, he's making reasonable conclusions, which are subject to change as more evidence comes out.

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:05 am I'm only trying to make hypothesis based off the information we have to project his fantasy production, take it as that.

nothing wrong with that of course, i just think you draw strong conclusions from weak bases.

Well considering I don't believe the Rams have even confirmed Gurley has arthritis. So the reasonable conclusions are going off one report from an anonymous source iirc. I've seen plenty of offseason stories from an anonymous source that ended up being not true.

killer_of_giants wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:14 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:05 am I'm only trying to make hypothesis based off the information we have to project his fantasy production, take it as that.

nothing wrong with that of course, i just think you draw strong conclusions from weak bases.

It's not as much information as I would like to have, but I think the info we do have is quite telling. Sure I would love to see an x-ray, MRI, or CT. But we do know his injury history, we know that arthritis commonly occurs after those injuries. We've heard that he is dealing with arthritis confirming what we know. Now I jump to my knowledge about arthritis and that diseases progression. I make a strong take, probably because he's a high caliber player there's more skeptics than if he were Trajae Sharpe. The fantasy community is knocking Gurley down and raising Henderson, the price is baking in, but it's not fully there if my working theory is true. Only time or more information will tell. If I'm right then you're making moves ahead of the curve and will stand to benefit. Or I'm wrong and you sold an aging RB for decent value but not peak value, or bought depth guys too high. Since this thread is about Henderson particularly, I still believe he has value even if Gurley is healthy. They have already said they are going to limit his touches so some of those will go to Henderson. I see Henderson as having a role with and without Gurley. Brown I see more of a backup to Gurley.

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:40 am

killer_of_giants wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:14 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:05 am I'm only trying to make hypothesis based off the information we have to project his fantasy production, take it as that.

nothing wrong with that of course, i just think you draw strong conclusions from weak bases.

It's not as much information as I would like to have, but I think the info we do have is quite telling. Sure I would love to see an x-ray, MRI, or CT. But we do know his injury history, we know that arthritis commonly occurs after those injuries. We've heard that he is dealing with arthritis confirming what we know. Now I jump to my knowledge about arthritis and that diseases progression. I make a strong take, probably because he's a high caliber player there's more skeptics than if he were Trajae Sharpe. The fantasy community is knocking Gurley down and raising Henderson, the price is baking in, but it's not fully there if my working theory is true. Only time or more information will tell. If I'm right then you're making moves ahead of the curve and will stand to benefit. Or I'm wrong and you sold an aging RB for decent value but not peak value, or bought depth guys too high. Since this thread is about Henderson particularly, I still believe he has value even if Gurley is healthy. They have already said they are going to limit his touches so some of those will go to Henderson. I see Henderson as having a role with and without Gurley. Brown I see more of a backup to Gurley.

i broadly agree, but this is a bit different than saying "he's past the point of no return"!

killer_of_giants wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:45 am

kamihamster wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:40 am

killer_of_giants wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 10:14 am

nothing wrong with that of course, i just think you draw strong conclusions from weak bases.

It's not as much information as I would like to have, but I think the info we do have is quite telling. Sure I would love to see an x-ray, MRI, or CT. But we do know his injury history, we know that arthritis commonly occurs after those injuries. We've heard that he is dealing with arthritis confirming what we know. Now I jump to my knowledge about arthritis and that diseases progression. I make a strong take, probably because he's a high caliber player there's more skeptics than if he were Trajae Sharpe. The fantasy community is knocking Gurley down and raising Henderson, the price is baking in, but it's not fully there if my working theory is true. Only time or more information will tell. If I'm right then you're making moves ahead of the curve and will stand to benefit. Or I'm wrong and you sold an aging RB for decent value but not peak value, or bought depth guys too high. Since this thread is about Henderson particularly, I still believe he has value even if Gurley is healthy. They have already said they are going to limit his touches so some of those will go to Henderson. I see Henderson as having a role with and without Gurley. Brown I see more of a backup to Gurley.

i broadly agree, but this is a bit different than saying "he's past the point of no return"!

I make two jumps in my reasoning.

1) He has arthritis - unknown source. Is it a big jump? Not really, we know that arthritis develops after traumatic knee injury such as torn ACL which he has had. Nothing has come out about a strain, sprain, or other soft tissue injury. I'm 99% sure he has arthritis the severity is the next leap.

2) The severity of his arthritis is career threatening. I make this based off his usage in the Super Bowl. This is a huge leap to make. But go back to what I presented about the progression of arthritis, it doesn't get better. You can slow it down, you can treat the symptoms, but it will progress. There are no drugs or treatments out there that can reverse the disease. Gurley was typically playing around around 90% of the snaps during the season, in the post season he was between 46-64% that's a big step down. At this point it's about how much pain can he handle. If things don't get better with this disease, I dont see him getting back to that 90% rate, and how much longer can he endure the lower percentage of snaps before the disease progresses even more? Typically as the disease gets worse, it gets worse faster. This is due to your adaptive immune system generating more antibodies to the antigen. I'll leave it there an wont make any more conclusions but let you decide.