Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

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_yeti
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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby _yeti » Sun May 05, 2019 5:14 pm

With the hands-off safety rules and defenseless receiver rules, it vastly benefits smaller guys who have more quickness. The play that always sticks out in my mind was during a 3TD Tyreek Hill explosion last year where ppl asked if he is the #1 dynasty WR after.. he caught one and the safety could have taken his head clear off if timed the second he caught it. He waited to avoid the penalty and Tyreek took advantage taking it like 40 more yards for the score. That hit could have caused a fumble or injury, but the rules are different now. Being bigger really doesnt give much of an advantage when contested catches arent such a big deal. The middle of the field used to be a war zone and you would never regularly and frequently target your diva best WR there, there used to be guys who made a living being able to go across the middle. Now, you can get OBJ/Tyreek type players in space all over the field. What do you need to be big for?
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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Sun May 05, 2019 5:17 pm

There's also been some high profile big wr busts in recent years, and that may have skewed some perceptions as well.

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby _yeti » Sun May 05, 2019 5:20 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 7:00 am
From around the mid-2000s into the beginning of the aughts, the height-speed-weight prototype dominated. For several years, most of the league's highest profile WR stars fit that profile.

The league adapts. Defenses started using more press with stronger, lengthier corners. It worked. Even a freak of nature like Calvin Johnson struggled with his Peanut Tillman match-ups.

And again, the league adapts. Offenses countered these taller, longer, stronger DBs with shorter, quicker, craftier WRs. And so we entered an era in which WRs of even the sub-6'0" variety emphasizing technical route-craft have become world-beaters.

Height, speed, and weight is still a great advantage, and isn't ceasing to be relevant. But certainly, there's other ways for a WR to be dominant in the current era.
We've been down this road before, not saying this isn't part of the picture but you really don't think the rules about DB hitting have had a huge impact on this, too? Route craft takes dings when you actually get hit over the course of the game and those hits limit where you can take those routes and how many times you can have incompletions that dont have any consequence to the player or offense. Of course route craft wins in flag football. I have never played football in this new era, but being a defensive player you have never been more handcuffed and vilified. Defensive secondary are basically faceless minions in an action movie ready to be dispatched.

Randy went deep. He changed the game, he changed defense. He changed strategy. He often notoriously got alligator arms in the middle of the field, making business decisions to not bring in the ball and take the big hit. I had to come around, on these forums, to realize the jump ball, the big endzone threat, the contested catch, it all means very little now. And the league makes it easier for offenses every single year. Not to mention you cant hit QBs either.
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TE: E. Ebron, D. Njoku, N. Fant, I. Thomas, ASJ
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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby ninotoreS » Mon May 06, 2019 9:35 am

I think the still rising popularity of spread concepts and schemes making space for WRs underneath since the mid-2000s have had a whole lot more to do with the surge in dominant WRs lacking Adonis physical traits than any rule changes. Sure, the latter have had some impact. But not nearly so much as the former, I think.

Additionally, more QBs becoming experts at pre-snap reads, and rhythm passing offenses in general. Also emphasizes WR technical craft first and foremost, and mitigates the need for sheer size-speed specimens because the guy really only has to be versatile and reliable.
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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby ebsteelers » Mon May 06, 2019 11:40 am

it runs in cycles...
when Big wrs were in... teams went out and got big corners.

not teams have smaller wrs who are shifty, so teams will get smaller shifty corners.. in the next handful of years teams will probably go back to the bigger jump ball wideouts..

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby Cameron Giles » Mon May 06, 2019 6:07 pm

ebsteelers wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 11:40 am
it runs in cycles...
when Big wrs were in... teams went out and got big corners.

not teams have smaller wrs who are shifty, so teams will get smaller shifty corners.. in the next handful of years teams will probably go back to the bigger jump ball wideouts..
I don't see this being the case. Contested catches are cool, but it makes up such a small part of NFL offense.

The NFL is going to continue emphasizing players who run effective routes and get open as quickly as they can.

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby Factory of Sadness » Tue May 07, 2019 1:48 am

It's going to be interesting. The Rams got by on scheme all year, but once New England took away the space over the middle, they didn't have a player who could make contested boundary catches or pull in a 50-50 downfield. Kupp being out and Gurley injured undoubtedly hurt them against the Pats and I wouldn't want to read too much into one game, but what Patricia did first for the Lions and Belichick then repeated might be something of a blueprint. It's very possible that some of these teams looking to play space games off jet motion and play-action have a harder time putting their slender burner in space next year. If that happens, then the need for a guy who can win at bully ball could really come back.

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby Space Cowboy » Tue May 07, 2019 1:06 pm

I've certainly cooled on the 6'3+ 215+ WRs. Still like them of course, but it's guys with elite quickness and superb route running that are thriving these days. Spread attacks are here for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby ArrylT » Tue May 07, 2019 9:01 pm

Factory of Sadness wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:48 am
It's going to be interesting. The Rams got by on scheme all year, but once New England took away the space over the middle, they didn't have a player who could make contested boundary catches or pull in a 50-50 downfield. Kupp being out and Gurley injured undoubtedly hurt them against the Pats and I wouldn't want to read too much into one game, but what Patricia did first for the Lions and Belichick then repeated might be something of a blueprint. It's very possible that some of these teams looking to play space games off jet motion and play-action have a harder time putting their slender burner in space next year. If that happens, then the need for a guy who can win at bully ball could really come back.
Yeah not to mention Bill Belichick also just drafted the definition of a big strong fast* WR in N'Keal Harry.

If all these big WR types do well in College, and NFL Teams continue to bring college concepts to the NFL it would seem that at least some of the big WRs can & will continue to succeed as well. Perhaps not as often as was once the case, but not every big WR will bust and not every small & shifty route runner will be a 100% lock either,

* - fast enough for NFL standards at their size & build not 4.25 fast.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby ArrylT » Mon May 13, 2019 2:49 pm

Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby jordanzs » Mon May 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Funny, I'm looking at one of my teams, and here's my notable WR stable on it:

AJ Green
Alshon
Robby Anderson
Sutton
Butler
D. Parker
Tim Patrick & Kevin White deep on the bench (large rosters).

Not saying it's the best WR stable out there, but yeah I guess I'm still a height supremist......

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby maxhyde » Wed May 15, 2019 8:00 am

The fantasy community likes fantasy points.
For a few years in recent history it was dominated by Dez/DT/Julio/Calvin/AJG and still is to is certain extent but smaller WR have ALWAYS been en vogue in the NFL. Marvin Harrison was small and didn't even really play in the slot. Reggie Wayne wasn't a big guy. Wes Welker and go back farther for a Tim Brown. Good football players are good football players, the NFL has never forgotten that
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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby Weknownothing86 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Read an article stating that because of the new rule where you can challenge PI, the big strong physical WRs are going to come back. It specifically stated this being Bill Bs strategy and why he drafted Harry. Not sure if i agree, and the source is less than stellar, but will definitely interesting and a possibility in my mind.
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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby jordanzs » Wed May 15, 2019 1:44 pm

jordanzs wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:03 pm
Funny, I'm looking at one of my teams, and here's my notable WR stable on it:

AJ Green
Alshon
Robby Anderson
Sutton
Butler
D. Parker
Tim Patrick & Kevin White deep on the bench (large rosters).

Not saying it's the best WR stable out there, but yeah I guess I'm still a height supremist......
Just added Jalen Hurd in the middle of round 3. The pattern keeps patterning......

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Re: Have We Moved On From Big and Fast?

Postby John Paul » Sun May 19, 2019 8:23 pm

I grabbed Campbell, Isabella AND Butler in my draft today. I have no bias, I'm just trying to get my hands on WRs landing in good situations. The more I get, the better shot I have on one of them paying off.
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RB: Todd Gurley(1.04/'15), Joe Mixon(Trade'18), Nick Chubb(2.08/'18), Tarik Cohen(WW/'17), Jerrick McKinnon(WW '17), Matt Breida(WW/'17), Darrell Henderson (2.10/'19)
WR: AJG(Trade '18), Mike Evans(Trade '18), Cooper Kupp(Trade '18), Allen Robinson (Trade '19), Parris Campbell(1.10/'19), Tyrell Williams(WW/'16), Andy Isabella(2.02/'19), Hakeem Butler(2.04/'19), ESB(WW/'19). Diontae Johnson(WW/'19)
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