Newton or Bradford?

[standard_variance]

This is what I was telling Scott yesterday. Couldn't agree more. Nice post Allen.

This is a great point. But not every QB that is challenged in that regard rises up to the occasion like Newton has done. So question one "Can he do it?" has been answered - yes, without a doubt. The next question "Can he do it well?" has been answered - yes, without a doubt very well. Now the question "Can he do it well consistently?" is the one yet to be answered. There are always more questions to be asked...but if you ask me when comparing Newton to Bradford...Bradford hasnt even shown that he can be an elite fantasy QB, let alone consistently elite. All Bradford has shown is that he can consistently be an OK fantasy QB.

If you look at the first seasons of players like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Matt Stafford, etc., etc. you'll find that many, MANY if not MOST QBs didn't show the very thing you seem to expect to have already seen from Bradford - who had absolutely NOTHING around him on offense his rookie season except for a very good RB in SJax. I think we need to also give Bradford more time before we come to conclusions...

I agree which is why comparing "the amount of body work" position is completely out of perspective to begin with considering its 1 season vs a few games. What I was trying to indicate was that if in fact people are going to compare the two it is not fair, or objective to discredit what one (Newton) has done statistically, without also discrediting the other (Bradford). The bottom line is that Bradfords potential has not been realized, as much, and as quickly as Newton's has....

[Water Buffalo]

After watching the MNF game tonight, I almost feel a bit bad for Bradford. Not in the "he's a decent looking kid with a gun for an arm playing a kid's game making millions of dollars" sort of feel bad way of course, but rather in the sense that he's seriously working with scraps right now and NO ONE is helping him out.

Between injuries and lackluster play, they really need to get a play maker or two for him. Not having Sjax in there really exaggerates it even more. Kendricks has looked beyond mediocre in his first two starts, dropping balls left and right and making mental route running errors. Then tonight there was Salas, who I can safely say I will never own in any fantasy league ever, because he looked that terrible tonight. After seeing him play in only 1 NFL game, I've made my mind up that Salas just doesn't have "it" and I want no part of him.

One of my biggest knocks on Bradford last year was that he seemed reluctant to throw the ball down the field for big plays. I often gauge future QB success from a fantasy standpoint based on a QBs willingness to air it out. I was higher than many on guys like Kolb and Fitzpatrick this year and last because what I've seen in the past is that they are willing to take a risk and chuck it up. Similarly, I never liked guys like Brady Quinn because he was captain checkdown. Colt McCoy is falling into a similar category for me too. My point though, is I was impressed with Bradford tonight from 1 standpoint at least: He really seemed to air it out a bit more than I've seen in the past, and I think that's a good sign in his progression.

He's clearly got skills, but man oh man does he need a play maker or two.

I think the debate of Newton vs Bradford is very close right now. Bradford might very well end up the better option 3, 4, 5+ years down the road when he gets a weapon or two. But after two weeks, if I was forced to pick 1 of them for a redraft league this year, I'd absolutely be picking Newton. I realize it's a dynasty board, but my point is simply that I think the immediate future is brighter for Newton than Bradford from a fantasy standpoint.

[RobertBobson]

Yeah, it's hard to judge Bradford when he delivers so many good balls that just get plain dropped and drives get killed. holy cow that stl offense is grim.

[Misfit74]

I thought Bradford looked great last night. His YPA is going up from last year - a good sign of progress. He deals with pass-rush well, is a good decision-maker and threw for over 300 yards and zero picks. His future is very, very bright.

I will say this: Bradford's NFL-value might remain higher than his fantasy-value, as Newton's rushing ability gives him an edge in fantasy that isn't/shouldn't really be a big part of Bradford's game. These are two QBs that should give us a lot of good football-watching for years to come.

Where will each be in their developments 3 to 5 years from now?

[andrewfroboy]

I think you make a good point, i think Bradford is definitely far and away a better NFL QB right now, but fantasy wise I think I'll take my chances with Newton

[RobertBobson]

Watching that game was painful. So many dropped balls. You have to take into consideration how many mutts Bradford plays with. So many first down balls just straight dropped.

[standard_variance]

Watching that game was painful. So many dropped balls. You have to take into consideration how many mutts Bradford plays with. So many first down balls just straight dropped.

Yes but that comes with the situation...you can consider it all you want as an important variable, but until it changes or improves then its a moot point in determining who is/will be a better fantasy QB.

[andrewfroboy]

Any change of opinion with 3 games done, Bradford not looking so great I must say, I would definitely be taking Newton over Bradford at this point

[kris_kapsner]

As a former Vick and Culpepper owner in the past, I hang my hat on the pocket passing elite QBs over the guys who run and get hurt on a regular basis, not to mention the shorter careers in general. So, I'd take Bradford without even thinking about it in this comparison.

[MikeCross]

Bradford's WRs @ the NCAA level were prolly better than his WRs @ the NFL level. Sux for him really bad. I have a conspiracy theory that the Turf in St Louis is "too fast", and players are cutting harder at faster speeds than thier ACL/MCL can handle. lol. There is history there with WR injuries, all the way back to Bruce and Holt... those 2 were also grossly overated because their QB made them all look like HOFers. anyway, maybe they can sign TO here in the next couple of weeks.

[pntgvn2399]

Bradford's WRs @ the NCAA level were prolly better than his WRs @ the NFL level. Sux for him really bad. I have a conspiracy theory that the Turf in St Louis is "too fast", and players are cutting harder at faster speeds than thier ACL/MCL can handle. lol. There is history there with WR injuries, all the way back to Bruce and Holt... those 2 were also grossly overated because their QB made them all look like HOFers. anyway, maybe they can sign TO here in the next couple of weeks.

Absolutely.. Next year help will come with someone like Jeffery/Blackmon/Floyd.. Cam right now has former All Pro RB, All Pro WR and All Pro TE.. Bradford has ummmmmm I don't know, what the hell does Bradford have? Like I said before this was about their career right? People were jumping on the Cam bandwagon after 2 weeks when they stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys and said go ahead and wing it.. His accuracy showed this last week.. My opinion isn't changing, Bradford by A LOT..

[Water Buffalo]

Bradford's WRs @ the NCAA level were prolly better than his WRs @ the NFL level. Sux for him really bad. I have a conspiracy theory that the Turf in St Louis is "too fast", and players are cutting harder at faster speeds than thier ACL/MCL can handle. lol. There is history there with WR injuries, all the way back to Bruce and Holt... those 2 were also grossly overated because their QB made them all look like HOFers. anyway, maybe they can sign TO here in the next couple of weeks.

Absolutely.. Next year help will come with someone like Jeffery/Blackmon/Floyd.. Cam right now has former All Pro RB, All Pro WR and All Pro TE.. Bradford has ummmmmm I don't know, what the hell does Bradford have? Like I said before this was about their career right? People were jumping on the Cam bandwagon after 2 weeks when they stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys and said go ahead and wing it.. His accuracy showed this last week.. My opinion isn't changing, Bradford by A LOT..

His accuracy showed last week? Come on.... did you watch the game? Did you watch highlights of the game? Did you see the conditions this game was played in?

The only conclusions you should be taking from Newton's week 3 game is that you shouldn't be forming conclusions from his week 3 game. He will likely never play in conditions like that ever again.

But if you really want to dig deeper lets go!: Even playing in a freaking monsoon, Newton was still the 15th highest scoring fantasy QB last week. That's right... in a game where there was so much rain you could hardly even see the guys playing, there was standing water on the field, and I'm sure passing was nearly impossible, Newton still put up 15 or 16 fantasy points based on scoring, and outscored everyone's lover boy Matt Ryan along with guys like Freeman, RIVERS, VICK, Kolb, Grossman, Orton, Romo, and of course Bradford (not surprising any more). Oh, and even with a mediocre week 3 fantasy game (did I mention it was played in a MONSOON?) He's still the 6th highest scoring fantasy PLAYER (3rd highest QB) through 3 weeks.

Oh, but we're talking accuracy issues. I forgot. Newton, playing in an ungodly torrent of rain completed 18/34 passes. Bradford, playing at home IN A DOME, completed 16/32. Last I checked, 52% is better than 50%.

Maybe I'm becoming a Newton apologist or something, but I've got to say I've been nothing short of thoroughly impressed with the kid through 3 weeks, and I was a huge skeptic going in. I don't even own him in any fantasy leagues either! I actually find myself willingly switching to the Panthers games (yay sunday ticket!) because I've been so intrigued by Newton this year. You'd have to pay me to watch the Rams.

[RobertBobson]

Absolutely.. Next year help will come with someone like Jeffery/Blackmon/Floyd.. Cam right now has former All Pro RB, All Pro WR and All Pro TE.. Bradford has ummmmmm I don't know, what the hell does Bradford have? Like I said before this was about their career right? People were jumping on the Cam bandwagon after 2 weeks when they stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys and said go ahead and wing it.. His accuracy showed this last week.. My opinion isn't changing, Bradford by A LOT..

LOL you obviously watched zero percentage of that game. Whom, out side of a biblical figure, could have had a good passing game in a monsoon? I don't think I've ever seen harder rain in a game than in the first half of that game.. it looked like the Bishop golfing scene in Caddyshack.

[standard_variance]

Absolutely.. Next year help will come with someone like Jeffery/Blackmon/Floyd.. Cam right now has former All Pro RB, All Pro WR and All Pro TE.. Bradford has ummmmmm I don't know, what the hell does Bradford have? Like I said before this was about their career right? People were jumping on the Cam bandwagon after 2 weeks when they stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys and said go ahead and wing it.. His accuracy showed this last week.. My opinion isn't changing, Bradford by A LOT..

LOL you obviously watched zero percentage of that game. Whom, out side of a biblical figure, could have had a good passing game in a monsoon? I don't think I've ever seen harder rain in a game than in the first half of that game.. it looked like the Bishop golfing scene in Caddyshack.

I think the message being sent here is....know as much of the facts as possible before making a judgment =]

If you are taking Bradford over Cam right now...you are doing it under a few ASSUMPTIONS...1) that the situations will change 2) that the change is what will significantly improve Bradfords numbers and 3) that Cam Newton will drop off heavily. So the questions are...

how long before that happens?
Will it really matter THAT MUCH?
Is it reasonable to think that Bradfords ceiling is higher than the ceiling that Cam Newton has already established for himself?
And how much longer are you going to wait for Bradford to live up to these expectations before you finally realize that Newton is already living up to those same expectations?

I understand the answer may nto always be Newton over Bradford...but for right now for the foreseeable future...its without question Newton over Bradford. Its funny how a guy like Kyle Orton with the same caliber weapons, or Newton with better weapons, can put up the same, if not better, numbers than Bradford and STILL both end up getting less respect....its unjustifiable to me. Until Bradfords situation begins to drastically change there is no way that he can compete fantasy wise with Cam Newton right now or in the foreseeable future.

[knuckles50]

I think it is clear at this point that the only thing that was ridiculous is that I got flamed for such a "ridiculous" post.