What is Greene's value?

[princevincexoxo]

Love Greene but Stewart has to be slightly ahead of him as long as he can remain healthy....depending on that it COULD BE interchangeable. Moreno doesnt even belong in this conversation. DWill is pretty equal with Greene - but depending on production that can also flip flop, with Greene eventually supplanting DWill for good in the rankings.

[remy420]

Love Greene but Stewart has to be slightly ahead of him as long as he can remain healthy....depending on that it COULD BE interchangeable. Moreno doesnt even belong in this conversation. DWill is pretty equal with Greene - but depending on production that can also flip flop, with Greene eventually supplanting DWill for good in the rankings.

I would take him before either of them. He is younger and he is the only positive thing the broncos have to look at on offense.

[princevincexoxo]

Love Greene but Stewart has to be slightly ahead of him as long as he can remain healthy....depending on that it COULD BE interchangeable. Moreno doesnt even belong in this conversation. DWill is pretty equal with Greene - but depending on production that can also flip flop, with Greene eventually supplanting DWill for good in the rankings.

I would take him before either of them. He is younger and he is the only positive thing the broncos have to look at on offense.

That doesnt mean anything...why would you want to take a guy who has a hard time averaging 4 yards a carry over guys that (can) average over 4.5+ ypc?....that just doesnt make sense no matter how you slice it. Its a numbers game and the slightest of miscalculations can easily leave you on the short end of the stick.

[jthirteentimes]

That doesnt mean anything...why would you want to take a guy who has a hard time averaging 4 yards a carry over guys that (can) average over 4.5+ ypc?....that just doesnt make sense no matter how you slice it. Its a numbers game and the slightest of miscalculations can easily leave you on the short end of the stick.

Sounds like you're suggesting that Moreno will be stuck with his YPC from his rookie year for the rest of his career...Its not about how well he did last year, its about how well you project him to do over the long-term. Denver's O-line last year was atrocious. More importantly, this is dynasty, so clearly he likes Moreno's long-term value more than Greene's and Stewart's. I don't, but its not unreasonable that someone would. If all we had to do was look at last year's stats to determine the value of a player, fantasy football wouldn't be a whole lot of fun.

[princevincexoxo]

That doesnt mean anything...why would you want to take a guy who has a hard time averaging 4 yards a carry over guys that (can) average over 4.5+ ypc?....that just doesnt make sense no matter how you slice it. Its a numbers game and the slightest of miscalculations can easily leave you on the short end of the stick.

Sounds like you're suggesting that Moreno will be stuck with his YPC from his rookie year for the rest of his career...Its not about how well he did last year, its about how well you project him to do over the long-term. Denver's O-line last year was atrocious. More importantly, this is dynasty, so clearly he likes Moreno's long-term value more than Greene's and Stewart's. I don't, but its not unreasonable that someone would. If all we had to do was look at last year's stats to determine the value of a player, fantasy football wouldn't be a whole lot of fun.

No i didnt suggest that his ypc would be that for the rest of his career I was implying that we have seen some guys with ease average over 4.5 ypc....thats pretty significant in comparison to 4 ypc. YPC generally doesnt deviate too much...so even if Moreno were to average 4.3 ypc, or 3.7 ypc....the fact is I'd rather have guys that have shown they can average 4.5+ ypc....like i said its a numbers game, and a .2-.3 ypc difference over the course of 250 carries (not to mention the additional carries guys like Greene and Stewart will get over Moreno in the long run) it adds up.....

[Risky bidness]

That doesnt mean anything...why would you want to take a guy who has a hard time averaging 4 yards a carry over guys that (can) average over 4.5+ ypc?....that just doesnt make sense no matter how you slice it. Its a numbers game and the slightest of miscalculations can easily leave you on the short end of the stick.

Sounds like you're suggesting that Moreno will be stuck with his YPC from his rookie year for the rest of his career...Its not about how well he did last year, its about how well you project him to do over the long-term. Denver's O-line last year was atrocious. More importantly, this is dynasty, so clearly he likes Moreno's long-term value more than Greene's and Stewart's. I don't, but its not unreasonable that someone would. If all we had to do was look at last year's stats to determine the value of a player, fantasy football wouldn't be a whole lot of fun.

No i didnt suggest that his ypc would be that for the rest of his career I was implying that we have seen some guys with ease average over 4.5 ypc....thats pretty significant in comparison to 4 ypc. YPC generally doesnt deviate too much...so even if Moreno were to average 4.3 ypc, or 3.7 ypc....the fact is I'd rather have guys that have shown they can average 4.5+ ypc....like i said its a numbers game, and a .2-.3 ypc difference over the course of 250 carries (not to mention the additional carries guys like Greene and Stewart will get over Moreno in the long run) it adds up.....

While I can agree with this statement you have to look at the o-line for whatever RB we talk about. Denver's o-line was whack last year so that had some to do with Moreno and his YPC. Carolina has a top 5 o-line and that has some to do with the Panthers YPC.

Be it that we've seen what the Panthers RB's can produce I'd have to go with Stewart over Moreno at this point. D-will is closer to value with Moreno due to age.

[remy420]

That doesnt mean anything...why would you want to take a guy who has a hard time averaging 4 yards a carry over guys that (can) average over 4.5+ ypc?....that just doesnt make sense no matter how you slice it. Its a numbers game and the slightest of miscalculations can easily leave you on the short end of the stick.

Sounds like you're suggesting that Moreno will be stuck with his YPC from his rookie year for the rest of his career...Its not about how well he did last year, its about how well you project him to do over the long-term. Denver's O-line last year was atrocious. More importantly, this is dynasty, so clearly he likes Moreno's long-term value more than Greene's and Stewart's. I don't, but its not unreasonable that someone would. If all we had to do was look at last year's stats to determine the value of a player, fantasy football wouldn't be a whole lot of fun.

No i didnt suggest that his ypc would be that for the rest of his career I was implying that we have seen some guys with ease average over 4.5 ypc....thats pretty significant in comparison to 4 ypc. YPC generally doesnt deviate too much...so even if Moreno were to average 4.3 ypc, or 3.7 ypc....the fact is I'd rather have guys that have shown they can average 4.5+ ypc....like i said its a numbers game, and a .2-.3 ypc difference over the course of 250 carries (not to mention the additional carries guys like Greene and Stewart will get over Moreno in the long run) it adds up.....

I don't know how you are concluding this. Moreno had more carries than both of those guys last year. I will concede the Stewart side of the argument because he is a beast. I question short-term the presents of D-Will and long-term his body surviving his brutal running style. But when it comes down to Greene and Moreno long term, I think Moreno could be a top 5 rb. I don't think you will be saying the same about Greene. The Jets have done everything possible this year to put the ball in Sanchez hands. The broncos drafted the best blocking wr in the draft and a qb who can't throw. They have one play-maker. And he isn't even a play-maker, yet. But every game and every offensive snap for the next couple of years, as long as he isn't hurt, he's going to be the greatest option on that offense.

[skip]

I don't know how you are concluding this. Moreno had more carries than both of those guys last year. I will concede the Stewart side of the argument because he is a beast. I question short-term the presents of D-Will and long-term his body surviving his brutal running style. But when it comes down to Greene and Moreno long term, I think Moreno could be a top 5 rb. I don't think you will be saying the same about Greene. The Jets have done everything possible this year to put the ball in Sanchez hands. The broncos drafted the best blocking wr in the draft and a qb who can't throw. They have one play-maker. And he isn't even a play-maker, yet. But every game and every offensive snap for the next couple of years, as long as he isn't hurt, he's going to be the greatest option on that offense.

I am not sure where you are drawing the conclusion that the ball is going to be in Sanchez's hands a lot more this season - the addition of Holmes? They sent a 5th rd pick, which is dirt cheap for someone with his level of talent. He will do a little more than replace Cotchery's numbers in that offense, but Sanchez still isn't going to see 3000 yards this season. The Jets are a run-first, defensive team. That isn't changing with the addition of 1 player.

The problems in Denver were more than just their offensive line. Moreno also broke down in a huge way last season. While he will be preparing more this off-season, there are still going to be questions about his ability to hold up over a 16 game schedule. He also looked pretty pedestrian. Top 5 RB is an extremely lofty expectation all things considered. With all of the current talent at the position in the NFL, cracking the top 10 will be a challenge in and of itself. Let's also consider that the Denver line was put together for a zone blocking scheme, not for a power rushing attack. The personnel there isn't ready to make that change in one off-season without a major overhaul and Moreno is going to continue to struggle this coming season.

I have the two (Greene and Moreno) pretty close to a push. I don't see either as a top 10 RB, but would rank them both in the low teens range (11-15).

[lemmi]

I don't know how you are concluding this. Moreno had more carries than both of those guys last year. I will concede the Stewart side of the argument because he is a beast. I question short-term the presents of D-Will and long-term his body surviving his brutal running style. But when it comes down to Greene and Moreno long term, I think Moreno could be a top 5 rb. I don't think you will be saying the same about Greene. The Jets have done everything possible this year to put the ball in Sanchez hands. The broncos drafted the best blocking wr in the draft and a qb who can't throw. They have one play-maker. And he isn't even a play-maker, yet. But every game and every offensive snap for the next couple of years, as long as he isn't hurt, he's going to be the greatest option on that offense.

I am not sure where you are drawing the conclusion that the ball is going to be in Sanchez's hands a lot more this season - the addition of Holmes? They sent a 5th rd pick, which is dirt cheap for someone with his level of talent. He will do a little more than replace Cotchery's numbers in that offense, but Sanchez still isn't going to see 3000 yards this season. The Jets are a run-first, defensive team. That isn't changing with the addition of 1 player.

The problems in Denver were more than just their offensive line. Moreno also broke down in a huge way last season. While he will be preparing more this off-season, there are still going to be questions about his ability to hold up over a 16 game schedule. He also looked pretty pedestrian. Top 5 RB is an extremely lofty expectation all things considered. With all of the current talent at the position in the NFL, cracking the top 10 will be a challenge in and of itself. Let's also consider that the Denver line was put together for a zone blocking scheme, not for a power rushing attack. The personnel there isn't ready to make that change in one off-season without a major overhaul and Moreno is going to continue to struggle this coming season.

I have the two (Greene and Moreno) pretty close to a push. I don't see either as a top 10 RB, but would rank them both in the low teens range (11-15).

X2.
I'm not sure where this belief that the Jets are gonna turn into the Greatest Show on Turf Part 2 is coming from. They have one of the best O-line's in the game. A top 5 Defense and a RB that they believe can carry the load. Edwards/Holmes would make for a killer WR tandem on the Bears (with Cutler and MM) or Saints but the Jets are not changing their formula because they sent a 5th rounder for Holmes. Running the football, keeping the other teams Offense off the field and their Def fresh got them a half away from the SB.

[princevincexoxo]

Sounds like you're suggesting that Moreno will be stuck with his YPC from his rookie year for the rest of his career...Its not about how well he did last year, its about how well you project him to do over the long-term. Denver's O-line last year was atrocious. More importantly, this is dynasty, so clearly he likes Moreno's long-term value more than Greene's and Stewart's. I don't, but its not unreasonable that someone would. If all we had to do was look at last year's stats to determine the value of a player, fantasy football wouldn't be a whole lot of fun.

No i didnt suggest that his ypc would be that for the rest of his career I was implying that we have seen some guys with ease average over 4.5 ypc....thats pretty significant in comparison to 4 ypc. YPC generally doesnt deviate too much...so even if Moreno were to average 4.3 ypc, or 3.7 ypc....the fact is I'd rather have guys that have shown they can average 4.5+ ypc....like i said its a numbers game, and a .2-.3 ypc difference over the course of 250 carries (not to mention the additional carries guys like Greene and Stewart will get over Moreno in the long run) it adds up.....

I don't know how you are concluding this. Moreno had more carries than both of those guys last year. I will concede the Stewart side of the argument because he is a beast. I question short-term the presents of D-Will and long-term his body surviving his brutal running style. But when it comes down to Greene and Moreno long term, I think Moreno could be a top 5 rb. I don't think you will be saying the same about Greene. The Jets have done everything possible this year to put the ball in Sanchez hands. The broncos drafted the best blocking wr in the draft and a qb who can't throw. They have one play-maker. And he isn't even a play-maker, yet. But every game and every offensive snap for the next couple of years, as long as he isn't hurt, he's going to be the greatest option on that offense.

You are letting your bias alter the way you are looking at this. Greene could EASILY be a top 10 RB depending on how many carries he gets. If he gets as much as Thomas Jones has been getting he will be....

[remy420]

I just don't think the Jets will run it 600 times this year. I think Sanchez will attempt more than 360 passes. He has a year under his belt and someone to throw to. On the other hand I think denver will throw less than 500 times and run more. Personel changes and teams adapt. Not disregard their whole phylosophy, just adapt.

[lemmi]

I just don't think the Jets will run it 600 times this year. I think Sanchez will attempt more than 360 passes. He has a year under his belt and someone to throw to. On the other hand I think denver will throw less than 500 times and run more. Personel changes and teams adapt. Not disregard their whole phylosophy, just adapt.

I can see your point but I don't think they need to adapt.
Holmes won't play until Week 5 anyway, so you're still looking at virtually the same offense until then. The only real personel change is Holmes. People will point to Faneca but he was livin' off of reputatation. He gave up 7.0 sacks ranking 29th among left guards. I was among the few that was glad to see him go. I like the odds of his replacement finishing 28th or better marking it an improvement.
Unless they go out of the gate 1-3 or 0-4, I'm just not feeling it.
Trust me, I'd love to see it, been a Jets fan my whole life.

[remy420]

Well, I assume you know there management better than I do. But you can't have it all. They have some key guys on defense that they need to resign and a couple on the offensive line who are looking for bigger deals. They just drafted a qb top 10 and I don't know the numbers of his deal but I am sure it is paying. The Jets aren't building around Greene. He happens to be at the right place at the right time. But he is replaceable and the Jets have shown that rb isn't there biggest concern. The broncos are building around Moreno.

[ekassor]

Greene's value is somewhat limited by lack of receiving skills out of the backfield. Top 10 RBs can also be counted on for 30-40 receptions a year. Time will tell if he can develop those skills, but its not looking like he'll be a formidable receiver.

[lemmi]

Well, I assume you know there management better than I do. But you can't have it all. They have some key guys on defense that they need to resign and a couple on the offensive line who are looking for bigger deals. They just drafted a qb top 10 and I don't know the numbers of his deal but I am sure it is paying. The Jets aren't building around Greene. He happens to be at the right place at the right time. But he is replaceable and the Jets have shown that rb isn't there biggest concern. The broncos are building around Moreno.

They actually traded up to the 1st pick in the 3rd to take Green in '09.
From then on, they've done nothing but rave about him.
The fact that they let TJ walk shows me that think he can shoulder the load. I trust their judgement. There's a damn good reason I'm sitting at a desk having friendly banter in a fantasy football forum and not coaching a football team
They may not be building around Green, but they're building around the O-line, which I'd rather they did anyway.
Any RB with a lick of talent can find space to run back their. I'm more than confident that LT will have a better year in '10 than he did in '09. I'm not saying LT is back, so don't everyone jump all over that . But he'll definitely improve on his ypc, without a doubt.