Dynasty League Football Forum

dynasty12 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 pm I feel like Pats running plays specifically geared to get him the ball in the redzone after he came back healthy is a good sign. The obvious counter is he didn't make most of those plays. But, it is something.

He made a good amount of plays on a snall sample size in the Redzone, don't forget he had a TD vs KC that was incorrectly ruled out of bounds by the refs and NE was out out of challenges to get it corrected. You can't hold the bad call against him, he has no control over that.

bjd5211 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:05 pm

dynasty12 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 pm I feel like Pats running plays specifically geared to get him the ball in the redzone after he came back healthy is a good sign. The obvious counter is he didn't make most of those plays. But, it is something.

He made a good amount of plays on a snall sample size in the Redzone, don't forget he had a TD vs KC that was incorrectly ruled out of bounds by the refs and NE was out out of challenges to get it corrected. You can't hold the bad call against him, he has no control over that.

I'm with you. I mean them giving him end-arounds, and redzone fades are positive signs for me. Hoping with a training camp under his belt he'll be more integrated in the offense, but to me it was pretty clear they thought he was a play-maker.

ascherb wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:22 pm I love these threads with everyone now saying “I personally didn’t have Harry 1.01 last year... I liked AJB, Deebo and Sanders.”

Lol!

I distinctly remember that many many people had Harry 1.01.

I did.

I guess I’m less excited now, but he’s a hold because no one is giving up anything for him.

I'm sure plenty of people didn't. Last year wasn't one of those locked in years.

In terms of WR there were a lot of Hakeem Butler #1 WR people until he dropped off the edge of a cliff during the draft. Then everyone jumped ship, but before the draft I know there were Harry, Hakeem, AJ Brown, Marquise Brown, and DK #1 people.

I would say that just guessing, it was probably something like:
N. Harry: 40-45%
AJ Brown 20-25%
DK 15%
Butler: 10-15%
M. Brown 5-10%

That was my memory. Harry was the #1 WR, but it wasn't unanimous, especially predraft, after the draft AJ Brown fell badly (from like 1.02/1.03 to like 1.06 to 1.10, Butler stock totally collapsed, while DK and M. Brown stock climbed a bit. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Kinda like this year it feels like:

Lamb: 47.5%
Jeudy: 45%
Higgins: 5%
Reagor: 2.5%

I'm having fun w/Reagor, but I definitely think there are a couple people hiding out there w/Reagor as their #1, that they'll sit on, and try to get at value much later.

My pre-draft ranks were DK 1, AJB 2, Hakeem 3, Harry 4, and Hollywood 5

I got DK at 1.04, AJB at 2.02, and traded back in as Hakeem free-fell into the mid-3rd. I feel good about having all three of those guys... I've been saying it all offseason, but Hakeem is a fantastic free dice roll right now. He's still freakishly athletic and his finger injury won't have stopped him from running and refining routes and training.

I'm hoping he turns up to training absolutely jacked up and ready to roll. Kyler could definitely use a big dude who loves running deep.

stoneghost28 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:53 pm

ascherb wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:22 pm I love these threads with everyone now saying “I personally didn’t have Harry 1.01 last year... I liked AJB, Deebo and Sanders.”

Lol!

I distinctly remember that many many people had Harry 1.01.

I did.

I guess I’m less excited now, but he’s a hold because no one is giving up anything for him.

I'm sure plenty of people didn't. Last year wasn't one of those locked in years.

In terms of WR there were a lot of Hakeem Butler #1 WR people until he dropped off the edge of a cliff during the draft. Then everyone jumped ship, but before the draft I know there were Harry, Hakeem, AJ Brown, Marquise Brown, and DK #1 people.

I would say that just guessing, it was probably something like:
N. Harry: 40-45%
AJ Brown 20-25%
DK 15%
Butler: 10-15%
M. Brown 5-10%

That was my memory. Harry was the #1 WR, but it wasn't unanimous, especially predraft, after the draft AJ Brown fell badly (from like 1.02/1.03 to like 1.06 to 1.10, Butler stock totally collapsed, while DK and M. Brown stock climbed a bit. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Kinda like this year it feels like:

Lamb: 47.5%
Jeudy: 45%
Higgins: 5%
Reagor: 2.5%

I'm having fun w/Reagor, but I definitely think there are a couple people hiding out there w/Reagor as their #1, that they'll sit on, and try to get at value much later.

REAGOR!!!!!!!!!

I was never a fan of Harry but I was also on the Hakeem train, not as 1.01 but I liked him. If I remember I had it DK, AJ, Harry, was never a fan of Marquise either but his and Harry's draft capital pushed them back into my top tier (I generally assume the NFL temas know more than me)

Rasorin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:17 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:30 pm The thought popped into my head today that Harry coming out of college was a lot like DJ Moore. Both had exceptional resumes on paper, both were said to have "problems with separation and route running" that I personally thought were overblown. DJ Moore obviously had a better rookie campaign but I just thought it was an interesting observation?

Sorry, I don't remember that DJ Moore having issues with separation or route running coming out of college. If memory serves me right those skills were attributed to his player strengths, not weaknesses.

I never said he had those issues I said people said that he did. I definitely remember at the time arguing with people about it. Maybe they were the minority, idk. I remember that narrative though.

I believe in him still. He shows as an elite prospect in his analytics. Watch his NFL highlights. There are not a lot of them but he either caught contested catches or was good in the open field. He is very good at tracking the ball and adjusting to make the catch. His body control and soft hands are a combination that’s hard to find. I still believe he will be a WR 1 at some point. It might be a year or two until the right QB clicks with him but his abilities are pretty evident. I am holding.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVyeExnVzY

I wasn't a fan of Harry or Butler while many compared these two. Both had obvious separation issues.

That said both could still be productive going forward but they are one dimensional type players that are system dependent. Butler was and still is a project.

While I don't own either I could see buying Harry at some point who could develop into a decent possession/red zone type which could be a low end WR2 or high end WR3 on a fantasy roster.

I was shocked Harry went in round 1 of the NFL draft. I think the Pats were the only team in the league that had a decent grade on him. Size and contested catches had to be graded high by them. His routes were not very good out of breaks and he showed marginal acceleration out of his breaks with no real 2nd gear.

I wonder if that was because they did not want to risk moving back too far into the 2nd and risk missing him, or if they simply wanted to have that 5th year option, which with the injury delayed 1st season may be a good thing ...

ArrylT wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm I wonder if that was because they did not want to risk moving back too far into the 2nd and risk missing him, or if they simply wanted to have that 5th year option, which with the injury delayed 1st season may be a good thing ...

IIRC, the Patriots were surprised he was still available

The Patriots seem to be perceived as having a problem with both the evaluation of and the coaching of Wide Receivers. I don't think that's it. I think they just ask the impossible of their WRs. Their variant of the Erhardt-Perkins system has always been super-complex. They seem to have become more and more convoluted with it over recent years though. It creates space- especially over the middle where Brady can reliably put the ball- and works great if you a Julian Edelman type with crazy instincts and years in the system. The amount of checks built into it though means that it is ridiculously hard to learn. Harry was raw anyway as a route technician, was hurt for much of the year and came into a situation with a grumpy Brady not trusting him, but reluctantly having to use him. As a plan for making a WR look like crap, it was perfect.
My worry as an owner is that the formative years are critical for NFL players and if jump ball WRs play without a jump ball QB, they can become a shell of themselves. I think Harry could ball out with Fitzpatrick for instance, but if he sucks for a couple more years in New England, he might never make it.

ArrylT wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm I wonder if that was because they did not want to risk moving back too far into the 2nd and risk missing him, or if they simply wanted to have that 5th year option, which with the injury delayed 1st season may be a good thing ...

Hard to say but that 5th year option is a huge advantage for a team especially at the back end of the 1st round given the relatively low salary impact.

Yes, he was injured and put on IR rather than sitting out a few weeks and seeing. When he came back, the offense wasnt firing on all cylinders like it was supposed to. Everyone is writing him off because other rookies like AJ Brown had great first seasons. Its dynasty, how can one year tell you all you need on a rookie 1st rounder? He will have a great bounce back second year with TB12 THE GOAT throwing to him all season long.

DynastyIsDaBest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:54 am He will have a great bounce back second year with TB12 THE GOAT throwing to him all season long.

possibly...

killer_of_giants wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:41 am

DynastyIsDaBest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:54 am He will have a great bounce back second year with TB12 THE GOAT throwing to him all season long.

possibly...

Lol yeah because Brady put up such good numbers last year