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Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:03 am
by yinzername
ericanadian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:54 am
mild wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:40 pm
ericanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:28 pm
It’s volume. Draft enough receivers on
day 1/2 and have Big Ben throw to them and you’ll get some success stories.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Kobe Bryant
Your typo proves my point. Day2/3. Kevin Colbert has -never- used a Day 1 pick on a WR. His first draft, he literally found Antonio Brown in the 6th round. Put some respect on that name, fella.
Find me a team that wouldn't willingly swap places for the Kevin Colbert WR drafting experience. They are lauded as the gold standard in league circles for a dang reason.
"Overrated." That's hilarious.
Not even the best wide receiver drafting team in their own division. How about them Bengals? John Ross is a dud, but Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins, Ja’Marr Chase & Mohammed Sanu with a bonus point for Marvin Jones stacks up pretty well.
you are comparing about 3 years of decent drafting to a legacy...moving on
Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:51 am
by ericanadian
realmacaroni wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 7:03 am
ericanadian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:54 am
mild wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:40 pm
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Kobe Bryant
Your typo proves my point. Day2/3. Kevin Colbert has -never- used a Day 1 pick on a WR. His first draft, he literally found Antonio Brown in the 6th round. Put some respect on that name, fella.
Find me a team that wouldn't willingly swap places for the Kevin Colbert WR drafting experience. They are lauded as the gold standard in league circles for a dang reason.
"Overrated." That's hilarious.
Not even the best wide receiver drafting team in their own division. How about them Bengals? John Ross is a dud, but Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins, Ja’Marr Chase & Mohammed Sanu with a bonus point for Marvin Jones stacks up pretty well.
you are comparing about 3 years of decent drafting to a legacy...moving on
This is silly and pretty much what I’m talking about when saying the Steelers draft proficiency is overrated. Marvin Jones was drafted over ten years ago. Boyd like seven years ago and the list includes everyone the Bengals drafted in that range. If we’re talking legacy, the day 1/2 receiver the Bengals drafted immediately preceding this group is AJ Green. If you want to go back to when Kevin Colbert started in Pittsburgh, you’d have to add Chad Johnson (Ochocinco) and TJ Houshmanzadeh (who they grabbed in the 7th) to the Bengals list.
Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:28 am
by yinzername
you can hang your hat on Boyd and Marvin Jones and Houshmanzzzzz...i don't think you'll win many hearts and minds with that. Ocho's legacy, no thanks. AJ could ball, a lot of yards, some good TDs early on, never gave any fans or teams the real return they want.
Steeler WR legacy doesn't really need listed, most people can conjure up a pretty good list in their heads
Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:57 am
by Jigga94
ericanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:28 pm
mild wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:52 pm
ericanadian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:45 pm
I think the Steelers draft acumen at drafting receivers is wildly overrated.
Jeez, I'd hate to hear what you have to say about the Eagles...
They've found AB, Mike Wallace, Juju, Diontae, Emmanuel Sanders... Claypool, even Martavis flashed talent... without ever spending higher than a 2nd.
That's pretty good, dude.
It’s volume. Draft enough receivers on day 1/2 and have Big Ben throw to them and you’ll get some success stories.
2010 - 2019, their day 1/2 picks were Diontae, Washington, Wheaton, Sanders, Juju, Bryant, & Coates.
Diontae and Sanders are clear wins and you can give them a bonus point for day three AB. Sanders didn’t actually break out until he left for Denver after the same GM that drafted him let him walk, but I’m still counting it.
Juju has one huge year and a bunch of mediocrity in his five seasons and was just let walk. Is that success? Claypool looks good, but we’re running on the assumption he’s about to be passed by the amazing Pickens, so not sure I can give points for a guy that’s about to lose his job.
Bryant, Washington, Wheaton, Coates and Bryant are all fails to me. Bryant may have flashed, but he was a huge red flag on character and that’s what brought him down.
That 3/8 with a TBD. Dig back for Wallace? I’ll refer you to Limas Sweed. They’re batting around 50%, which is good. I’m just not sure it’s great or any kind of assurance you’re getting a great player because the Steelers drafted him.
Solid write up. The Steelers definitely have a good reputation for drafting WR. I would like to know how many WR they've drafted in the first 3 rounds compared to other teams. And how often do one of those WR have a "good" year and then are forever labeled a 'hit' as a draft pick?
JuJu is the perfect example. Had a fantastic 2nd year and was WR6 in dynasty ranks at one point. He has since fallen off pretty hard. Claypool was already considered by some a 'hit' but I'm still not sold, especially if the new 'hit' in town, Pickens, surpasses him.
Also find it funny people count Sanders but his best year was his 4th and final in PIT for 67/740/6. Still a good WR, and we can count him, just funny how things work
Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:45 pm
by Sriracha
Csl312 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:54 pm
Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:42 pm
The most underrated WR drafting team is probably the Packers. Over the past couple decades they have been absolute money in the 2nd round with their only miss being Terrence Murphy who had his career cut short from spinal stenosis.
This is true - except in 20 yrs they have only drafted 5 Rd 2 wrs. Cobb was good but not great. Jennings, Nelson and Adams all very good. If you add Rd 3 then you get James Jones and Amari Rodgers (so not terribly inspiring). It's not so good after that. I guess having had two HoF QBs they did have to throw to someone all that time. Maybe this bodes well for Watson though?
I believe if your argument is "he was drafted by the Steelers therefore he's good" (not mentioning you per se, but the argument was made above) we care more about draft capital hit rate than volume since the selection bias is relatively consistent with the team.
Jennings, Nelson, Adams being 'very good' is an understatement. All 3 were indisputably top 5 WRs in the league during their prime.
Even Cobb was on a massive upwards trajectory before injuries derailed his career.
While no one has done a better job finding WR talent in rounds 3+ than the Steelers I don't think that history is especially relevant when we're talking about a round 2 pick.
Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:22 pm
by Ice
Regardless of how teams draft WR's. Diontae Johnson is Really Really Good! Taking out the "maybe" as it seems to be the word that derailed this thread!
Maybe there are a few teams really really good at drafting WR's?
Re: Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:41 pm
by Sriracha
Ice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:22 pm
Regardless of how teams draft WR's. Diontae Johnson is Really Really Good! Taking out the "maybe" as it seems to be the word that derailed this thread!
Maybe there are a few teams really really good at drafting WR's?
Hear hear, motion to change the thread title to: Diontae Johnson is really really good
