Dynasty League Football Forum

Just as an aside, when I wrote this thread it was about Etienne the undrafted prospect. Landing spot and injuries have changed the outlook since the original post. He's under-valued at the moment, and I like his outlook going forward, but the ceiling of potential is far lower than when I wrote the original post. He had a recovery year last year, and now he's entering prime years 24 & 25. Buy low for sure.

dlf_mikeh wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:52 pm Just as an aside, when I wrote this thread it was about Etienne the undrafted prospect. Landing spot and injuries have changed the outlook since the original post. He's under-valued at the moment, and I like his outlook going forward, but the ceiling of potential is far lower than when I wrote the original post. He had a recovery year last year, and now he's entering prime years 24 & 25. Buy low for sure.

He has had a lot to deal with through 2 years. The most interesting thing to me is his limited receiving work. He's been pretty much a two down back in the NFL so far.

Do you still believe he has a three down skillset?

Pullo Vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:54 pm

dlf_mikeh wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:52 pm Just as an aside, when I wrote this thread it was about Etienne the undrafted prospect. Landing spot and injuries have changed the outlook since the original post. He's under-valued at the moment, and I like his outlook going forward, but the ceiling of potential is far lower than when I wrote the original post. He had a recovery year last year, and now he's entering prime years 24 & 25. Buy low for sure.

He has had a lot to deal with through 2 years. The most interesting thing to me is his limited receiving work. He's been pretty much a two down back in the NFL so far.

Do you still believe he has a three down skillset?

The Etienne crowd is purely a confidence play right now. Those who doubt that Etienne will ever be a true fantasy RB1 have ample evidence to support that opinion. A lot of it has been discussed.

Those who think Etienne will be a fantasy RB1 are betting on what their eyes and opinion tell them. It may end up being incorrect, but they (we, meaning me included) think he has a likelihood of receiving enough opportunity to be a T12RB in 2023. At this point, all we all can do is wait and see what happens.

Anteaters wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:37 pm

Pullo Vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:54 pm

dlf_mikeh wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:52 pm Just as an aside, when I wrote this thread it was about Etienne the undrafted prospect. Landing spot and injuries have changed the outlook since the original post. He's under-valued at the moment, and I like his outlook going forward, but the ceiling of potential is far lower than when I wrote the original post. He had a recovery year last year, and now he's entering prime years 24 & 25. Buy low for sure.

He has had a lot to deal with through 2 years. The most interesting thing to me is his limited receiving work. He's been pretty much a two down back in the NFL so far.

Do you still believe he has a three down skillset?

The Etienne crowd is purely a confidence play right now. Those who doubt that Etienne will ever be a true fantasy RB1 have ample evidence to support that opinion. A lot of it has been discussed.

Those who think Etienne will be a fantasy RB1 are betting on what their eyes and opinion tell them. It may end up being incorrect, but they (we, meaning me included) think he has a likelihood of receiving enough opportunity to be a T12RB in 2023. At this point, all we all can do is wait and see what happens.

Yep, there was a time early in the offseason where negative views on Etienne were harder to come by. Not quite now. The arguments that have been most persuasive for me was his receiving performance (especially when comparing his college receiving to Bigsby's college work) and inefficient red zone work.

I'd be interested to hear more on the underlined from someone who supports Etienne's RB1 potential. For instance, I could see dismissing the red zone performance as, "TDs are fickle." But, the receiving work is critical to having a high, stable week to week floor. However, dismissing concerns is different from providing reasons to be optimistic on Etienne's future production opportunities.

Not trying to bash Etienne or get a twitter debate going with cute one liners, but a substantive discussion.

Pullo Vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:54 pmDo you still believe he has a three down skillset?

I do. I also like the fact that he's coming into the best chance he's ever had as a starter in this league. He has a good few years of experience, he's past his recovery season, there's no threat to his touches, the offense is finally clicking, and he's entering that prime age for a RB. It's hard to spot any down sides.

This is the year for Etienne. I don't know what the ceiling is, but I easily see top 12 potential.

dlf_mikeh wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:28 am

Pullo Vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:54 pmDo you still believe he has a three down skillset?

I do. I also like the fact that he's coming into the best chance he's ever had as a starter in this league. He has a good few years of experience, he's past his recovery season, there's no threat to his touches, the offense is finally clicking, and he's entering that prime age for a RB. It's hard to spot any down sides.

This is the year for Etienne. I don't know what the ceiling is, but I easily see top 12 potential.

++
This is exactly how I feel.

The doubters will say Bixby is a threat to touches. I think that's true to the same degree Gus is a threat to Dobbins' touches, or Dillon is/was a threat to Aaron's touches. In the end, the better RB commanded a lion's share of the touches. Speaking of lions, a big reason Swift didn't command a lion's share of the Lions' RB touches was because he wasn't clearly the best RB on the team in a majority of situations. I think Etienne is clearly the best RB on the Jags in a majority of situations.

Time will tell.

Anteaters wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:34 am Speaking of lions, a big reason Swift didn't command a lion's share of the Lions' RB touches was because he wasn't clearly the best RB on the team in a majority of situations.

Disagree, he didn't get a lion's share of the touches for health reasons. Talent-wise he was easily better than Jamaal.

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:49 am

Anteaters wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:34 am Speaking of lions, a big reason Swift didn't command a lion's share of the Lions' RB touches was because he wasn't clearly the best RB on the team in a majority of situations.

Disagree, he didn't get a lion's share of the touches for health reasons. Talent-wise he was easily better than Jamaal.

Exactly; He seems to be made of glass. Groin a few times, Shoulder at least 3 times, a concussion, and an ankle. Some people are not built for football regardless of talent.

Anteaters wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:34 am

The doubters will say Bixby is a threat to touches.

Especially if you make him mad. You won’t like him mad.

Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:48 pm

Anteaters wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:34 am

The doubters will say Bixby is a threat to touches.

Especially if you make him mad. You won’t like him mad.

kadun2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 1:26 pm

Bronco Billy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:48 pm

Anteaters wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:34 am

The doubters will say Bixby is a threat to touches.

Especially if you make him mad. You won’t like him mad.

(cues up the sad piano music).

Ice wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:55 am

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:49 am

Anteaters wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:34 am Speaking of lions, a big reason Swift didn't command a lion's share of the Lions' RB touches was because he wasn't clearly the best RB on the team in a majority of situations.

Disagree, he didn't get a lion's share of the touches for health reasons. Talent-wise he was easily better than Jamaal.

Exactly; He seems to be made of glass. Groin a few times, Shoulder at least 3 times, a concussion, and an ankle. Some people are not built for football regardless of talent.

Judging from his RB coach it was more a lack of toughness than it was him being injury prone.

The things these guys are expected to play through is pretty crazy by laymen's standards.

Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:20 pm

Ice wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:55 am

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:49 am

Disagree, he didn't get a lion's share of the touches for health reasons. Talent-wise he was easily better than Jamaal.

Exactly; He seems to be made of glass. Groin a few times, Shoulder at least 3 times, a concussion, and an ankle. Some people are not built for football regardless of talent.

Judging from his RB coach it was more a lack of toughness than it was him being injury prone.

The things these guys are expected to play through is pretty crazy by laymen's standards.

I go back and forth between what I think about the Lions right now, but their view on Swift always confounded me.

Duce Staley seemingly got off on Jamaal Williams fighting defenders for a 4-yard run and probably preferred that to Swift avoiding contact on a 20-yard run. Sure, Jamaal was playing tougher, but Swift was more productive, which should matter more.

Pullo Vision wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 9:56 am But, the receiving work is critical to having a high, stable week to week floor.

only for those weirdos that play ppr

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:50 am Duce Staley seemingly got off on Jamaal Williams fighting defenders for a 4-yard run and probably preferred that to Swift avoiding contact on a 20-yard run. Sure, Jamaal was playing tougher, but Swift was more productive, which should matter more.

if they gave swift the same kind of carries they gave williams, he wouldn't have been more productive (he'd likely be dead, though!)

dynastyninja wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 8:50 am

Sriracha wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:20 pm

Ice wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:55 am

Exactly; He seems to be made of glass. Groin a few times, Shoulder at least 3 times, a concussion, and an ankle. Some people are not built for football regardless of talent.

Judging from his RB coach it was more a lack of toughness than it was him being injury prone.

The things these guys are expected to play through is pretty crazy by laymen's standards.

I go back and forth between what I think about the Lions right now, but their view on Swift always confounded me.

Duce Staley seemingly got off on Jamaal Williams fighting defenders for a 4-yard run and probably preferred that to Swift avoiding contact on a 20-yard run. Sure, Jamaal was playing tougher, but Swift was more productive, which should matter more.

I believe it had more to do with Swift not playing through injuries that many other NFL RBs do.

“Injuries happen, but one of the things Swift and I had a conversation about is you’ve got to be able to play through some of these injuries as a running back,” Staley said, via the Detroit Free Press. “We all know there’s a difference between being injured and hurt. As soon as you step in this building as a running back, Day One training camp, you’re not going to feel the same. There will be some things you have to fight through.”

Swift has yet to play more than 13 games in an NFL season.