Appeal of Superflex?

[halfbaked88]

Superflex QB value varies greatly on league size/roster spot requirements. In a 10 team Superflex leads to overdrafting QBs. It's not really much a difference.

14 teams is where you can begin to exploit the value of QBs. 16 teams and you start to see some real dire situations where almost nobody has 3 QBs and therefore if 1 of your 2 QBs go down or gets benched you are in a bad place.

Vs 1QB which overvalues RBs, who are even more injured and top-heavy.

The appeal to me is it places more value on QB and aligns more with real-life as hands down the most important position on the field. It makes more sense that the 1st round of a start-up should be mainly QBs vs RBs/WRs.

Long time ago, in a 1QB, I won a championship with Kirk Cousins when he was in Washington who I picked up off *waivers* .... That's just not right.

[abloom]

Thanks for the interesting takes. I agree with the shallow rosters effecting flattening but I remained unconvinced on SF being the superior format.

Here’s an example of what I really don’t like about SF and it flattening the league -

Manager not good at drafting - the middle rounds etc. decides eh just draft Q in the middle rounds, can’t really miss, kind of opposite of a dart throw. Can turn that asset into whatever they want. 1QB the middle rounds are where you make hay, separate.

qbs should not be lasting to the middle rounds. viable starting qbs shoudl be drafted in the first and second rounds of rookie drafts.

if you are talking about startup drafts, most of the good ones should be gone by middle rounds. I will mention that FFPC limits the amount of QBs that a team can draft to 3 in the startup, but thats not really that different. It depresses qb values a bit, but the format itself that they use does that.

[SoftwoodGrampian]

Thanks for the interesting takes. I agree with the shallow rosters effecting flattening but I remained unconvinced on SF being the superior format.

Here’s an example of what I really don’t like about SF and it flattening the league -

Manager not good at drafting - the middle rounds etc. decides eh just draft Q in the middle rounds, can’t really miss, kind of opposite of a dart throw. Can turn that asset into whatever they want. 1QB the middle rounds are where you make hay, separate.

Most of the QB's are gone by round 5 in most SF drafts I've done. You're into the last few starters left by then. In rookie drafts, you need to spend an early to mid first to get a first round NFL QB, typically, so this doesn't really happen. If you go QB early in a startup, then you need to use those middle rounds to make up for not getting those elite non QB's in round 1 and 2. Some people will wait until rounds 4 or 5 and grab the lower end QB's, but beyond round 5 in a Superflex startup, you're not getting much of anything at QB from my experience.

Also going off this from 2020 adp
Qb ranking
16-goff
17-lock
18-cam
19-brees
21-darnold
26-teddy
27-minshew
28-haskins
29-big Ben
32 Mariota
So of the 16 mid round qbs, 10 experienced significant value/production drops with the only one safe to wind up in a starting job being goff and maybe darnold or Mariota. I wouldn't call that easy, safe or can't miss.

You can do this across any position

[Mjvb5]

Most of the QB's are gone by round 5 in most SF drafts I've done. You're into the last few starters left by then. In rookie drafts, you need to spend an early to mid first to get a first round NFL QB, typically, so this doesn't really happen. If you go QB early in a startup, then you need to use those middle rounds to make up for not getting those elite non QB's in round 1 and 2. Some people will wait until rounds 4 or 5 and grab the lower end QB's, but beyond round 5 in a Superflex startup, you're not getting much of anything at QB from my experience.

Also going off this from 2020 adp
Qb ranking
16-goff
17-lock
18-cam
19-brees
21-darnold
26-teddy
27-minshew
28-haskins
29-big Ben
32 Mariota
So of the 16 mid round qbs, 10 experienced significant value/production drops with the only one safe to wind up in a starting job being goff and maybe darnold or Mariota. I wouldn't call that easy, safe or can't miss.

You can do this across any position

thats what Im saying the point you brought up of
"Manager not good at drafting - the middle rounds etc. decides eh just draft Q in the middle rounds, can’t really miss, kind of opposite of a dart throw. Can turn that asset into whatever they want. 1QB the middle rounds are where you make hay, separate."

Is not accurate and middle round QBs are not cant miss, opposite of a dart throw. You can and you need to be able to seperate.

[Mjvb5]

Also going off this from 2020 adp
Qb ranking
16-goff
17-lock
18-cam
19-brees
21-darnold
26-teddy
27-minshew
28-haskins
29-big Ben
32 Mariota
So of the 16 mid round qbs, 10 experienced significant value/production drops with the only one safe to wind up in a starting job being goff and maybe darnold or Mariota. I wouldn't call that easy, safe or can't miss.

You can do this across any position

thats what Im saying the point you brought up of
"Manager not good at drafting - the middle rounds etc. decides eh just draft Q in the middle rounds, can’t really miss, kind of opposite of a dart throw. Can turn that asset into whatever they want. 1QB the middle rounds are where you make hay, separate."

Is not accurate and middle round QBs are not cant miss, opposite of a dart throw. You can and you need to be able to seperate. It adds another level of evaluation to a position that historically has not mattered for fantasy. After the top 12 QB doesnt matter much in a 1qb. does valueing Kirk Cousins vs Tannehill vs Carr really matter in your classic 1QB league

[mild]

So you are pigeonholed into drafting that position in the first 5 rounds or else.

Yes. Welcome to Superflex. First five rounds? Lol. Here's what a first round Startup ADP looks like in a Superflex draft... you may notice some trends:

1 1.13 QB1 Patrick Mahomes KC
2 2.50 QB2 Josh Allen BUF
3 3.88 QB3 Justin Herbert LAC
4 4.75 QB4 Lamar Jackson BAL
5 5.13 QB5 Kyler Murray ARI
6 6.63 QB6 Joe Burrow CIN
7 8.13 WR1 Ja'Marr Chase CIN
8 8.75 WR2 Justin Jefferson MIN
9 9.00 QB7 Dak Prescott DAL
10 9.38 RB1 Jonathan Taylor IND
11 9.88 TE1 Kyle Pitts ATL
12 10.21 QB8 DeShaun Watson CLE

You seem to be labouring under the impression that there is less skill involved in Superflex. You could honestly not be more wrong.

Consider:

- Short of giving up an -extraordinary- trade haul, the only way to get a Josh Allen/Mahomes level talent in this format is to draft them as a Rookie. This means the onus is on you to scout them coming out of college.

- Do you know how many ACTUAL NFL GM's bust their QB evaluation? By the reciprocal - have you considered how hard it was to spot a player like Josh Allen, or Lamar Jackson from afar - as the super raw rookies that they were? The consensus QB1 that year was Baker Mayfield (but a lot of people loved Josh Rosen and Darnold too). The opportunity cost at the top of that Rookie draft... was Saquon Barkley and Nick Chubb. Decisions, decisions...

- Speaking of Baker, you can have him around 150th overall in a Startup right now. So, round 12-15 depending on your league size. Think about that - this guy held so much value to begin with, and is now nearly worthless. Reckon he might turn it around? Buy low. Think he's toast? Well, of course You traded him away after the ____ season, because you were seeing the signs! QB evaluations and careers are easy, you'd be great at this! Play it out in your mind a little, and you can see how riding the QB eval train is a true rollercoaster like no other.

- The 5th Round Startup QB's of which you speak: it's a fascinating group right now, for sure. You say "can't miss" picks - and perhaps you're right, in that they have insulated value if you flip them immediately - but each has question marks that mean they are down here for a reason. Here are your names: Aaron Rodgers, Mac Jones, Tua, Zach Wilson, Derek Carr. Already, Malik Willis is one spot behind Zach Wilson (60 and 61) - what would you do? Would you rather have the remaining 2 years of A-Rod without Davante - without knowing - right now? Or re-roll with Mac Jones and hope he's got more ceiling? If you have the answers to these questions, then perhaps you should consider joining the hottest growing format in Dynasty fantasy football!

- Last thing. Roster Construction. Even in a 4pt per passing TD league, an elite QB can still have a 5 TD day and score 30+ pts in fantasy. That puts them in the rarified air of elite RB's. This is why you see the startup ADP above look the way it does. So you're starting your team. Do you forgo an Elite QB, and try and roll with 2 veterans, scooping JT or Chase instead? Or do you get 1 young guy, 1 old guy, and try to build through WR's for the long term? Push all in with Elite RB's at the top and band-aid QB's in the mid-rounds? There are so many ways to skin a cat here, and it opens up the draft intrigue far more than it shorts it. I think you had that part completely wrong.

In short, SF is the most popular and fastest growing format for a reason. You're hanging out on a Dynasty Fantasy Football forum, seems to me you might be quite into it. Perhaps you should find out for yourself and give it a try!

[BabyChark23]

Play what you like, there are plenty of formats for all. Personally I don't care for Non-PPR, but no many that will play nothing else. It's supposed to be fun, find the format that does that for you

x2.

For me personally, I started playing 1QB years ago in my first ever fantasy league. Later, I tried 2QB and now I’m never going back. It makes for much more interesting strategy for me. In 1QB, RB rules all. QBs are basically meaningless and the position is virtually ignored. SF and 2QB balances it out by making QB relevant again. With these leagues, I now have to balance out and consider all positions groups. I can’t ignore QB and hammer RB. It’s way more fun for me. If it doesn’t do it for you, that’s cool. As the previous poster said, that’s why we have so many different formats.

[zaner75]

Thanks for the interesting takes. I agree with the shallow rosters effecting flattening but I remained unconvinced on SF being the superior format.

Here’s an example of what I really don’t like about SF and it flattening the league -

Manager not good at drafting - the middle rounds etc. decides eh just draft Q in the middle rounds, can’t really miss, kind of opposite of a dart throw. Can turn that asset into whatever they want. 1QB the middle rounds are where you make hay, separate.

I doubt anything anyone says will sway your opinion as it seems firmly entrenched. Why does there have to be a "superior" format? This is a hobby most of us do for fun, so as a previous poster stated, play in the format that you enjoy. Don't start shitting on another format because it's not to your liking. Superflex is becoming exceedingly popular for many of the reasons others have stated. Since it's not for you, easy solution - don't play in any.
Single QB format takes less skill imo. Just keep throwing darts at RB and WR. If you hit on the right ones that break out, you're a contender. Random crapshoot if you get the right players because all managers are doing the same thing. There's a reason late round QB became the best winning strategy in that format. Just forego the QB position to take more shots on RB and WR because the deficit at QB can be overcome by hitting on the right RB/WR. And Zero-RB another strategy to take advantage of the volatility of RB injuries and the near-equal replacement level of production by the backups. QB - the most valuable position in the real game - is an afterthought because anyone can score enough points in any given week.
My long-running keeper league (since 2006) is 1 QB and is the only single QB league I remain in. I drafted Kupp in the 5th round last year. Did that make me more skilled at drafting compared to my leaguemates? Maybe, but maybe not if you knew that I drafted Allen Robinson in the 4th.

[SoftwoodGrampian]

You know you’re at odds when each side uses the same reasoning to explain two different outcomes. You’re right tho, each their own. I was hoping to be convinced to try and will do so. Right, wrong or indifferent, Superflex will have a new member to its community for y’all to pry apart!

[StripesOfKC]

I just don't like when the most important position is worthless

My first dynasty league was an 8 team 1 QB

Every team had an elite or near elite QB

QBs were never drafted until like round 4--no one ever traded QBs besides to get from one top QB to another top QB

You couldn't even throw starting (actually good starting) QBs into trades of other players/picks because the response was "when am I ever going to play him with ___ (insert elite QB here)"

They were similar to kickers honestly

Never playing 1 QB again

[abloom]

You know you’re at odds when each side uses the same reasoning to explain two different outcomes. You’re right tho, each their own. I was hoping to be convinced to try and will do so. Right, wrong or indifferent, Superflex will have a new member to its community for y’all to pry apart!

The way I look at it: all formats are fine provided that all teams agree to it. I try to only join leagues that have different settings because otherwise I'd end up with fairly similar rosters.

[thunderTung]

This thread is weird, feels like it's kind of turned into what's "harder/easier" All SF does is give value to another position that in 1qb is oversaturated with average talent that you can get by with because you're only playing one of them. Sure it can help to have Allen on your team, but I dont think playing Tannehill is going to lose you your game either.

I think the issue with SF, is that the really elite QB's last a really long time, and there are only so many "elite" QB's in the league at a given time. I think this could create in imbalance in leagues where if you hold two young studs, that team doesn't have to worry about QB's for the next 10+ years. At least with RB's they usually start falling off in their mid-late 20's, while WR's last a few years longer, I mean yea they can play a lot longer, but they aren't gonna be top 5 players in their 30's.

SF is interesting, but i'm personally not a huge fan of it. I get the desire to increase the value of the position, personally I think there might just be a better way of accomplishing that, then just adding another flex spot for the QB

[SoftwoodGrampian]

I just don't like when the most important position is worthless

My first dynasty league was an 8 team 1 QB

Every team had an elite or near elite QB

QBs were never drafted until like round 4--no one ever traded QBs besides to get from one top QB to another top QB

You couldn't even throw starting (actually good starting) QBs into trades of other players/picks because the response was "when am I ever going to play him with ___ (insert elite QB here)"

They were similar to kickers honestly

Never playing 1 QB again

8 teams 1 qb? Garbage in garbage out! I’m hungry now

[Pullo Vision]

1QB which overvalues RBs, who are even more injured and top-heavy.

This is the 2nd mention of 1QB affecting RB values. Don't see that. At all. It's all about the starting requirements and roster depth. I'm in a 12 team 1 RB with two flexes and only stud RBs have real trade value. For years, I was in a 12 team 1QB league start *zero* RB, 3 WRs with 2 R/W flexes. RBs hardly had any trade value at all, but the ability to start 5 WRs led them to have crazy jacked up value.

I just don't like when the most important position is worthless

My first dynasty league was an 8 team 1 QB

Every team had an elite or near elite QB

QBs were never drafted until like round 4--no one ever traded QBs besides to get from one top QB to another top QB

You couldn't even throw starting (actually good starting) QBs into trades of other players/picks because the response was "when am I ever going to play him with ___ (insert elite QB here)"

They were similar to kickers honestly

Never playing 1 QB again

The solution here isn't abandoning 1QB leagues but picking a larger 1QB league. I'm in some 14 team 1QB leagues and QBs have elevated values compared to my smaller leagues. You almost need elite QB play to be a true contender, though not a concern in my 12 team leagues.

[SoftwoodGrampian]

1QB which overvalues RBs, who are even more injured and top-heavy.

This is the 2nd mention of 1QB affecting RB values. Don't see that. At all. It's all about the starting requirements and roster depth. I'm in a 12 team 1 RB with two flexes and only stud RBs have real trade value. For years, I was in a 12 team 1QB league start 2 RB, 3 WRs with 2 R/W flexes. RBs hardly had any trade value at all, but the ability to start 5 WRs led them to have crazy jacked up value.

I just don't like when the most important position is worthless

My first dynasty league was an 8 team 1 QB

Every team had an elite or near elite QB

QBs were never drafted until like round 4--no one ever traded QBs besides to get from one top QB to another top QB

You couldn't even throw starting (actually good starting) QBs into trades of other players/picks because the response was "when am I ever going to play him with ___ (insert elite QB here)"

They were similar to kickers honestly

Never playing 1 QB again

The solution here isn't abandoning 1QB leagues but picking a larger 1QB league. I'm in some 14 team 1QB leagues and QBs have elevated values compared to my smaller leagues. You almost need elite QB play to be a true contender, though not a concern in my 12 team leagues.

Agreeing with this post. Wouldn't play anything under 12 teams regardless of how many starters. Gotta have 12. Yes, the QB does have good value at the top (6-7 names) and the young guys with potential have value too.