Travis Kelce's Official Discussion Thread

[1standgoal]

I guess you guys weren't really paying attention if you're complaining about usage. He was right around 50% of the snaps until week ten when he jumped to 67%. He then surpassed 80% every game but one (78%) from there on out and had two or three games in the high 90's. What kind of usage rates are you looking for from a guy with limited blocking capabilities in his first real year of professional football?

Keep the schtick to a minimum, wholly cow.

Probably looking for a full 16 games where he's on the field pretty much every down. I guess that is tough to understand, nevermind.

16 games and Gronk-esque numbers would be tremendous. I thought what ericanadian said was informative though. This was essentially Kelce's rookie year which means the stats he did get are that much more impressive.

[Phaded]

Anthony Fasano stealing a lot of his looks is a lot to do with superior blocking and Fasano has grossly underrated hands. He catches almost everything thrown his way.

Kelce is more of an explosive "move" tight end.

The Chiefs gameplan isn't down the field passing though, they play a defensive game (because they have a great defense) and they have a chew-the-clock style offense.

[TommyL31]

I'm not sure if Kelce will be the TE3 next year mostly due to game plan but I think he has the talent to get there in a year.

I will take issue with statement "We all know how important having a dominant tight end can be." While having a Graham or Gronk is certainly valuable it's a different question to ask who is the TE3 vs. will someone be the next Graham or Gronk. Unless you can get a TE for cheap I think it's rarely ever worth chasing the next Graham/Gronk. Particularly when there are a handful of solid starting TE options that can be had for peanuts going into the season or early in the season.

Coby Fleener, Larry Donnell even Jermaine Gresham at the end of the year could have been gotten very cheaply. Antonio Gates and Delanie Walker have been under priced the last couple of years. Guys like Charles Clay, Brandon Myers, Dennis Pitta all had flashes of top 10 TE performance and could have been picked off the wire in most leagues. Even Julius Thomas after taking a while to develop and being plagued by injuries was a forgotten man in many leagues. If I'm spending valuable assets I'm much more likely to spend at other positions and take cheaper fliers with TE.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

I guess you guys weren't really paying attention if you're complaining about usage. He was right around 50% of the snaps until week ten when he jumped to 67%. He then surpassed 80% every game but one (78%) from there on out and had two or three games in the high 90's. What kind of usage rates are you looking for from a guy with limited blocking capabilities in his first real year of professional football?

Not sure why you need to be sarcastic with such a terrible point. Usage seems to me like its related to how theyre used, no? Used meaning targets, where he was 13ths among TE's... right around where Ertz was. So the usage people want probably has a bit to do with that wouldnt you think?

[Shoreline Steamers]

I think most agree Kelce has shown the talent to ascend. But his situation and system could be roadblocks to that happening in 2015. Fasano will still be there and Alex Smith is still the QB. Kelce would be great running seam routes, but Smith's strength isn't hitting them.

It's likely Kelce sees a few more targets in 2015 but I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if he posted much more than 75/925/7. While I'd love him to become a perennial top-5 TE, my gut says he's more akin to Greg Olsen than Gronk/Graham at least until 2017 when both Kelce and Fasano are free agents.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

Agreed Steamers, i think TE are very dependent on QB's to get to the elite difference making level. hence the link between Jimmy Gronk JT.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

Agreed Steamers, i think TE are very dependent on QB's to get to the elite difference making level. hence the link between Jimmy Gronk JT.

I'd say it might actually be the opposite. Brady/Brees/Peyton's numbers all dropped when their star TEs were hurt. I think good QB play has elevated their production, but they will still be top guys even without them.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

Agreed Steamers, i think TE are very dependent on QB's to get to the elite difference making level. hence the link between Jimmy Gronk JT.

I'd say it might actually be the opposite. Brady/Brees/Peyton's numbers all dropped when their star TEs were hurt. I think good QB play has elevated their production, but they will still be top guys even without them.

It goes both ways for sure. We are talking very good players after all. But to be a real difference maker as a TE qbs are the key. Plenty of good Tes out there, few true difference makers

[Phaded]

Agreed Steamers, i think TE are very dependent on QB's to get to the elite difference making level. hence the link between Jimmy Gronk JT.

I'd say it might actually be the opposite. Brady/Brees/Peyton's numbers all dropped when their star TEs were hurt. I think good QB play has elevated their production, but they will still be top guys even without them.

I think a lot of that has to do with the TE being such a "security blanket". Most TEs see a lot of short and quick passes.

As any position in the NFL though; of course a higher value of the partnering player will increase value of both. Look at what Demarco Murray did this year behind that offensive line or what Emmanuel Sanders did with Peyton throwing him the ball. Player stats on the field are never solely dependent on that one player and is more about the cohesiveness of the entire unit. Obviously there are tiers of players, but when you combine two good players you're going to get better production than combining a good and a bad.

However; I do fully believe Julius Thomas is (mostly) a product of Peyton Manning.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

Right but I'm saying TE is the extreme of that. All those guys settling for short and intermediate routes from qbs who need a security blanket aren't real difference makers. There are so many start able guys. But the elite are almost always tied to the qb. Whereas other positions I feel like you have a lot more outliers. No amount of kelce Camerons reeds etc will ever be a gronk. Kelce could be a great TE, maybe a 80/900/8 sort of guy. But that doesn't offer a great advantage over guys you can grab year in and year out.

[the_future]

Right but I'm saying TE is the extreme of that. All those guys settling for short and intermediate routes from qbs who need a security blanket aren't real difference makers. There are so many start able guys. But the elite are almost always tied to the qb. Whereas other positions I feel like you have a lot more outliers. No amount of kelce Camerons reeds etc will ever be a gronk. Kelce could be a great TE, maybe a 80/900/8 sort of guy. But that doesn't offer a great advantage over guys you can grab year in and year out.

I feel that Kelce has shown more ability than any other TE in the NFL right now excluding Gronk/Jimmy. (Although he is much more of a physical and fluid player than Jimmy is) If he ever gets the blocking down, he should easily be a consistent mid TE 1 for a while with upside of top 3. He has made many jaw dropping plays in the little time he has played in the NFL. He showed the ability to run away from corners and safeties in the pre season on the circa 70 yard TD reception across the middle and has shown the "mini-Gronk" like strength to break tackles of defenders and elusive hip movements like good ole Witten.

I guess my point is, I rank him as my TE 3 (Julius isn't that good, product of Peyton). And I would take a chance on him if he was sitting there in the 6th/7th round of a start up rather than wait until round 10 to grab an Eifert or Rudolph type.

[ericanadian]

I guess you guys weren't really paying attention if you're complaining about usage. He was right around 50% of the snaps until week ten when he jumped to 67%. He then surpassed 80% every game but one (78%) from there on out and had two or three games in the high 90's. What kind of usage rates are you looking for from a guy with limited blocking capabilities in his first real year of professional football?

Not sure why you need to be sarcastic with such a terrible point. Usage seems to me like its related to how theyre used, no? Used meaning targets, where he was 13ths among TE's... right around where Ertz was. So the usage people want probably has a bit to do with that wouldnt you think?

It was in response to those arguing Fasano was stealing snaps. Even if I go by targets, he was 13th while getting roughly 50% of the snaps up until week 10. It's his first actual season. He progressed exactly as one would hope a first year player would progress in terms of time on the field and led the team in receiving yards. I just don't understand why anyone would complain about him. Demanding a full season of 100% snaps is a ridiculous expectation given that he's only played in one season and I can't think of any TE that's actually accomplished this.

[QuintorrisLopezJones]

I guess you guys weren't really paying attention if you're complaining about usage. He was right around 50% of the snaps until week ten when he jumped to 67%. He then surpassed 80% every game but one (78%) from there on out and had two or three games in the high 90's. What kind of usage rates are you looking for from a guy with limited blocking capabilities in his first real year of professional football?

Not sure why you need to be sarcastic with such a terrible point. Usage seems to me like its related to how theyre used, no? Used meaning targets, where he was 13ths among TE's... right around where Ertz was. So the usage people want probably has a bit to do with that wouldnt you think?

It was in response to those arguing Fasano was stealing snaps. Even if I go by targets, he was 13th while getting roughly 50% of the snaps up until week 10. It's his first actual season. He progressed exactly as one would hope a first year player would progress in terms of time on the field and led the team in receiving yards. I just don't understand why anyone would complain about him. Demanding a full season of 100% snaps is a ridiculous expectation given that he's only played in one season and I can't think of any TE that's actually accomplished this.

OK i will agree with that. Andy Reid is just a headache. He just doesnt understand fantasy football.

[krh|dynasty]

Andy Reid is just a headache. He just doesnt understand fantasy football.

I have to agree with that.

[Mefisto]

I think Kelce becomes a perenial top 5 TE even with Reid at the helm (who has never really been good to his TE's). I would just like to comment about TE's being QB dependent. This is false. A TE's numbers are really only dependent on the O-line. If there's a bad O-line, the TE has to stay in and block. A TE's best friend may infact be the bad quarterback as they can't throw it very far down the field with much accuracy (for example, Olsen's best game(s?) of the season came with Anderson at QB). Plus, bad QB's usually result in playing for behind, which allows TE's to soak up those garbage 10 yard dumps in the 4th quarter.