Harvin versus Nicks

[hamburglar]

apologies if this is a previous thread. if so please point in direction of and then lock-- but if not curious what recent thoughts would be about these two in a start up.

[lukeb]

I prefer Harvin by decent margin.

[??Droppedballs??]

I would take Harvin also.

[The GM]

I value Harvin much more than Nicks.

[meineymoe]

I think that Nicks previously would have been ranked above Harvin by many, but because he can't seem to stay healthy, his value has taken a definite hit.

I'm of the opinion that Nicks is young enough that he can right this ship not only by remaining healthy but also by achieving that level of play that many of us expected from him. However, I think he is starting to become the Darren McFadden of WRs.....

As for a startup -- I am leaning Nicks, and here is why: I can probably get him later in the draft. I still like his upside, and even though Harvin is an electric NFL player, his jack-of-all-trades ability could limit his fantasy potential down the line if you're not in a big-play league.

-oo-

[DAG]

I go Nicks and its not close to me. I know there is a huge faction who love Harvin, but I am just not one of them. He is a smaller WR and I question his attitude. I realize that Harvin is a electrifying play maker but I always look at a WRs size because of the abuse you take in the NFL. Nicks is not that much bigger but a couple inches and 20 pounds can make a large difference when taking hits. I know that Nicks has not been able to stay healthy, but I am alot more risk adverse when it comes to injuries and I just feel he is the better talent.
Here is how much I don't really care for Harvin. I made a trade before last season and had my choice of Bowe or Harvin and took Bowe. Some may call me crazy but that is how I feel and being in a non PPR league makes a bit of difference too. But I still would not have taken Harvin if it was PPR.

[Jfever]

I go Nicks and its not close to me. I know there is a huge faction who love Harvin, but I am just not one of them. He is a smaller WR and I question his attitude. I realize that Harvin is a electrifying play maker but I always look at a WRs size because of the abuse you take in the NFL. Nicks is not that much bigger but a couple inches and 20 pounds can make a large difference when taking hits. I know that Nicks has not been able to stay healthy, but I am alot more risk adverse when it comes to injuries and I just feel he is the better talent.
Here is how much I don't really care for Harvin. I made a trade before last season and had my choice of Bowe or Harvin and took Bowe. Some may call me crazy but that is how I feel and being in a non PPR league makes a bit of difference too. But I still would not have taken Harvin if it was PPR.

If the past is any indication of the future, this entire line of thinking is absolutely flawed. Nicks being 2 inches taller and 2o lbs heavier says absolutely nothing about him being more durable. In fact it has done nothing to help Nicks to stay healthy. Harvin's playmaking ability and toughness far outshines Nicks' imo and in a ppr league Harvin is the clear choice. There are a lot of fantasy owners that focus too much on wr size. I was one of them a few years back. When players that are a few inches shorter or a few lbs lighter far outproduce players that are bigger - it is a indicator that when it comes to the wr positon, size isn't everything. Harvin is one example of many over the past couple seasons that wr1 numbers are not nearly as dependent on traditional views of wr1 size that many still cling to. Nicks lack of consistancy is glaring and is definately approaching DMC type levels - and I see Harvin as the absolute clear choice in this specific player debate. Bottom line, The passing game in the NFL has changed and NFL teams' wr1 and fantasy wr1 production are not as strongly linked as many still believe it to be.

[DAG]

Well here is the top 10 WRs in my standard scoring league for 2012

Megatron 6'5" 236 lbs
Marshall 6'4" 230 lbs
Dez 6'2" 218 lbs
AJG 6'4" 207 lbs
DThomas 6'3" 229 lbs
VJax 6'5" 230 lbs
Decker 6'3" 218 lbs
AJohnson 6'3" 230 lbs
Julio 6'3" 220 lbs
RWhite 6'0" 212 lbs

Now the glaring stat to me is the size of the WRs on this list. Only one WR at 6'0" and one at 6'2" and all the rest at 6'3" and above. Now granted that is not saying that all these WRs are going to be healthier because they are bigger and that is just last years stats, but when I look at WRs, I most definitely look at size. There is a distinct advantage to a 6'+ WR going up against what are traditionally smaller corners. Now that is not to say that smaller WRs cannot produce at the same level, but when I consider which one I prefer, and its close IMO, I always go bigger.
And talking about Nicks injury history, since 2009 Nicks has missed 13 total games, and Harvin has missed 12 games. And Harvin has only 25 more receptions total in that time frame as well so the PPR doesn't hold much water either now that I look at the stats. Total TDs for Nicks is 27 and for Harvin is 24.

[DAG]

Nicks stats
2009 14 GP 47 rec 790 yards 6 TDs
2010 13 GP 79 rec 1,052 yards 11 TDs
2011 15 GP 76 rec 1,192 yards 7 TDs
2012 13 GP 53 rec 692 yards 3 TDs

Harvins stats
2009 15 GP 60 rec 790 yards 6 TDs 135 rushing yards
2010 14 GP 71 rec 868 yards 5 TDs 107 rushing yards 1 TD
2011 16 GP 87 rec 967 yards 6 TDs 345 rushing yards 2 TDs
2012 9 GP 62 rec 677 yards 3 TDs 96 rushing yards 1 TDs

Now these 2 stat lines are pretty comparable and if your league counts return yards that's one thing, but if not looking at this I will take the bigger Nicks all day.

[FFDerek]

Why is it that everyone bags on the health of Nicks? Harvin has missed more games over the past 4 seasons than Nicks has???

[Jfever]

Why is it that everyone bags on the health of Nicks? Harvin has missed more games over the past 4 seasons than Nicks has???

Hmmm, where to start, So, Harvin missed 6 1/4 games last year and in reality, I believe he could have been brought back and would have been brought imo if he wasn't being such a malcontent. Vikings made a point by winning without him imo due to attitude, locker room, and up coming contractual situations - along with concern over Percy's potential trade value and him potentiall rushing back too early. I think they played it safe in that situation to a fault and in reality, it could have been handled better. Anyway, Regardless he missed 6 games as he was put on IR after his ankle sprain in week 10 but he still ended up being the 23rd highest scoring wide out with 195.26 points scored, while on an offense with Ponder throwing him the ball, ZERO other legit wr options (unless you think J.Simpson is a stud that required cb1 attention), that clearly ran through A.P. While Nicks (the bigger stronger and falsely assumed more durable) missed only 3 games, was the 51st scoring wr,and scored 143 points with Manning at Qb, Cruz to help draw some coverage, on an offense that passes much more / at least more effectively than Mn. He also put up a fat 0 in week 16 which I'm sure his owners REALLY appreciated. Clutch.

Bottom line in this specific case; Nicks is not durable, and when he is dinged up, he does not put up wr1 numbers. Harvin plays hard, is straight up a tougher player than Nicks and for what it's worth I think Harvin has just as high of ceiling (now expecially since he is with R.Wilson in SEA) and a much much higher floor, Nicks is bigger at 6'1 208 and Harvin at 5'11 184, but for me... this player debate isn't even close at all. Give me Harvin over Nicks all day every day. I'm not an owner of either in any of my leagues but I find the undying Nicks' cult followng a major head scratcher. Heck... V.Cruz is a more dependable, supieror wr with just as much upside but also a higher floor with less risk - on Nicks' own team...

Wondering if any of the Nicks supporters ever see Nicks duplicating or breaking the all time Giants single season wr yardage record? ( ya know the one that the 6'0 201 lb (smaller)) V.Cruz set... So - according to my logic, if the Nicks supporters here view Nicks as being more disirable than Harvin then they too mush view Cruz as being far supierior to Harvin as well.

[kmbryant09]

For what its worth:

Hakeem Nicks is in a contract year.

Percy Harvin just got paid $$$.

Something to think about when discussing 2 players that seem to deal with constantly nagging injuries.

[KMA]

I own both and challenge them to prove everyone wrong with highly productive, healthy, record breaking seasons!

[DAG]

The whole purpose of this thread is who do you like better and why. Some obviously like Harvin, and some are like me and like Nicks. The whole reason I took this further than that is because I was told that my thinking is absolutely flawed looking at the past. I always look at stats because I am a numbers guy, and the stats tell me that if the talent is close always go with the bigger WR. Thats not to say that I would take a lesser talent because he is bigger. Now that would be flawed thinking. But if its close go big. And if someone thinks that is flawed, just keep it to yourself unless you are providing sufficient data/information to back it.