mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

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Bronco Billy
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mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby Bronco Billy » Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:48 am

Why didn’t mfl ditch their DT and DE designations for DL and Edge designations this year?

They went half way last year by labeling 3-4 DEs as DTs and OLBs as DEs, causing issues with starting requirements in many start 11 IDP leagues. This season they have continued to straddle the fence instead of following through completely with the DL/Edge concept.

Does anyone see any logical reason for maintaining their confusing stance?

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meineymoe
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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby meineymoe » Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:01 pm

I actually liked the change last year, getting more Edge players listed as DEs. It helped increase the field of viable dlinemen for fantasy idp purposes.

I agree with the reluctance to breaking down positional designations even further when you look at H-back or nickel or other specialty positions. Would they be able to identify enough Edge players vs DEs vs Outside linebackers to satisfy all possible fantasy options? Wouldn't most leagues end up clumping Edges with another position rather than requiring, or worse, excluding defensive ends or outside linebackers from lineups?

My league idp starting lineups include 2 dlinemen, 2 linebackers, 2 dbacks, and 2 flex. In our case, if suddenly a bunch of players were designated Edge, we'd just have to decide who to clump them in with. Mfl took care of that for us by making most of them DEs.

In past seasons, Dline was a throwaway position since there were so few decent players. We even considered reducing lineups to just 1 dlineman.But now our idp lineups feel more balanced with the olbs now added to the dline position.

Out of curiosity, what are your leagues' idp lineups? What would you like them to be if Edge was added in mfl?

-oo-
Both teams 16 tm 1/3 ppr idp
QB, RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, K, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 2 Flex

Phoenix Park Suns
QB - Hurts, Darnold, Minshew, Zappe, O'Connell
RB - Ekeler, Conner, Edwards, Strong, McLaughlin, Brooks, Prince
WR - Adams, Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Zay Jones, M. Thomas, Downs
TE - Goedert, Bellinger
PK - Sanders
DL - Garrett, Paye, Madubuike, Judon
LB - Franklin, Mosley, Edmunds, J. Davis, Bernard, Jack, Mapu, Vander Esch
DB - Metellus, Branch
2024 Picks: 1.14, 2.05 , 2.14, 3.05, 3.14, 6.14

Serenity Valley Browncoats
QB - RWilson, O'Connell, Lance, Darnold, Hooker, Stidham
RB - Stevenson, RWhite, Ford, Herbert, Hunt, CEH, McIntosh, Brooks
WR - Adams, Collins, Rice, GDavis, NBrown, Dortch, Tillman
TE - Higbee, Allen, Graham
PK - Fairbairn
DL - Madubuike, Paye, Ebukam, Will Anderson
LB - Kendricks, Pratt, DWhite, Holcombe, Baker, Alexander, TAndersen, Jack
DB - Blackmon, Brisker, Stingley
- 2024 Picks: 1.13, 3.13
-oo-

Bronco Billy
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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby Bronco Billy » Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:27 pm

Our league starts 11 IDPs (DTs and DEs broken out, CBs and Ss broken out):

Current requirements:

DEFENSE - 11 players

DL - MIN 3, MAX 4 (Start Min 1DT and Min 1 DE)
LB - MIN 2, MAX 4
DB - MIN 4, MAX 6 (Start Min 2, Max 3 CB; Start Min 2, Max 3 S)

We’re currently discussing for vote to change to this:

2-3 DTs
2 DEs
1-3 LBs
2-3 Ss
2-3 CBs

This accounts for the change at mfl to go to what would be DL/Edge despite their failing to change designations and instead hold as DT/DE.

The inherent problem is that we’ve got owners pushing back on starting 3 DTs and 2 DEs because that looks like a college 5-2 which no NFL team plays. But the changes in designations makes a 3-4 D look like a 5-2 on paper because 3-4 DEs are now designated at mfl as DTs and 3-4 OLBs are now designated as DEs.

But here’s the real crux. When they made the change out of the blue last year, we had teams that suddenly went from carrying 6 LBs to 3 LBs because their OLBs suddenly became DEs and some teams suddenly had a surplus of DTs.

I don’t disagree with why Fantasy Sharks did this (and FS determined positional designations for mfl) as they are making accommodations for the Edge position as that vernacular is evolving, but rather that mfl failed to follow through with what FS did and create the DL/Edge distinction. It threw off a lot of teams and changed roster balances with literally no warning. That’s bad for leagues, and mfl should have been aware of what FS was trying to accomplish and worked with them.

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meineymoe
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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby meineymoe » Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:41 pm

Yes, we had similar experiences, including one team whose entire 5 man lb corps became DEs.

So, where would the Edge position fit into your lineup requirements? Would it be a case of being able to start them at DE or LB?

-oo-
Both teams 16 tm 1/3 ppr idp
QB, RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, K, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 2 Flex

Phoenix Park Suns
QB - Hurts, Darnold, Minshew, Zappe, O'Connell
RB - Ekeler, Conner, Edwards, Strong, McLaughlin, Brooks, Prince
WR - Adams, Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Zay Jones, M. Thomas, Downs
TE - Goedert, Bellinger
PK - Sanders
DL - Garrett, Paye, Madubuike, Judon
LB - Franklin, Mosley, Edmunds, J. Davis, Bernard, Jack, Mapu, Vander Esch
DB - Metellus, Branch
2024 Picks: 1.14, 2.05 , 2.14, 3.05, 3.14, 6.14

Serenity Valley Browncoats
QB - RWilson, O'Connell, Lance, Darnold, Hooker, Stidham
RB - Stevenson, RWhite, Ford, Herbert, Hunt, CEH, McIntosh, Brooks
WR - Adams, Collins, Rice, GDavis, NBrown, Dortch, Tillman
TE - Higbee, Allen, Graham
PK - Fairbairn
DL - Madubuike, Paye, Ebukam, Will Anderson
LB - Kendricks, Pratt, DWhite, Holcombe, Baker, Alexander, TAndersen, Jack
DB - Blackmon, Brisker, Stingley
- 2024 Picks: 1.13, 3.13
-oo-

Bronco Billy
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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby Bronco Billy » Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:52 pm

meineymoe wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:41 pm Yes, we had similar experiences, including one team whose entire 5 man lb corps became DEs.

So, where would the Edge position fit into your lineup requirements? Would it be a case of being able to start them at DE or LB?

-oo-
Edge would be what mfl currently calls DEs. Those are 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs in the NFL.

DL would be what mfl currently calls DTs. That would be 4-3 DTs and 3-4 DEs and NTs in the NFL.

That would fit exactly what FS was trying to accomplish when they made all the changes before last season.

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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby meineymoe » Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:49 am

So, MFL has these positions: DT DE LB
You would rather see: DL Edge LB
And, the same players would be in the new designations as are in the current positions?

I guess I'm not seeing the difference.
A rose by any other name, etc.

-oo-
Both teams 16 tm 1/3 ppr idp
QB, RB, 2WR, TE, 2Flex, K, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 2 Flex

Phoenix Park Suns
QB - Hurts, Darnold, Minshew, Zappe, O'Connell
RB - Ekeler, Conner, Edwards, Strong, McLaughlin, Brooks, Prince
WR - Adams, Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Zay Jones, M. Thomas, Downs
TE - Goedert, Bellinger
PK - Sanders
DL - Garrett, Paye, Madubuike, Judon
LB - Franklin, Mosley, Edmunds, J. Davis, Bernard, Jack, Mapu, Vander Esch
DB - Metellus, Branch
2024 Picks: 1.14, 2.05 , 2.14, 3.05, 3.14, 6.14

Serenity Valley Browncoats
QB - RWilson, O'Connell, Lance, Darnold, Hooker, Stidham
RB - Stevenson, RWhite, Ford, Herbert, Hunt, CEH, McIntosh, Brooks
WR - Adams, Collins, Rice, GDavis, NBrown, Dortch, Tillman
TE - Higbee, Allen, Graham
PK - Fairbairn
DL - Madubuike, Paye, Ebukam, Will Anderson
LB - Kendricks, Pratt, DWhite, Holcombe, Baker, Alexander, TAndersen, Jack
DB - Blackmon, Brisker, Stingley
- 2024 Picks: 1.13, 3.13
-oo-

Bronco Billy
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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby Bronco Billy » Sun Feb 18, 2024 10:38 am

meineymoe wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 8:49 am So, MFL has these positions: DT DE LB
You would rather see: DL Edge LB
And, the same players would be in the new designations as are in the current positions?

I guess I'm not seeing the difference.
A rose by any other name, etc.

-oo-
It’s because of the inherent confusion it causes.

What would you call a defense that starts 3 DTs, 2 DEs and 2 LBs? Most would call that base a 5-2. Is there a single team in the NFL that plays a base 5-2? No

Now how about a D that plays 3 DLs, 2 Edge, and 2 LBs? That’s easy - that’s a base 3-4 D, a very usual NFL D.

It’s all about consistency with the real game. Fantasy Sharks changed the way players were designated as 3-4 OLBs were classified as Edge players that ended positional confusion on guys like Watt and Mack among many others, but because mfl refuses to acknowledge what the NFL has done with player designation, FS was forced to call those kinds of guys DEs, which they clearly are not.

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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby acerocknut » Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:23 am

meineymoe wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:01 pm I actually liked the change last year, getting more Edge players listed as DEs. It helped increase the field of viable dlinemen for fantasy idp purposes.

I agree with the reluctance to breaking down positional designations even further when you look at H-back or nickel or other specialty positions. Would they be able to identify enough Edge players vs DEs vs Outside linebackers to satisfy all possible fantasy options? Wouldn't most leagues end up clumping Edges with another position rather than requiring, or worse, excluding defensive ends or outside linebackers from lineups?

My league idp starting lineups include 2 dlinemen, 2 linebackers, 2 dbacks, and 2 flex. In our case, if suddenly a bunch of players were designated Edge, we'd just have to decide who to clump them in with. Mfl took care of that for us by making most of them DEs.

In past seasons, Dline was a throwaway position since there were so few decent players. We even considered reducing lineups to just 1 dlineman.But now our idp lineups feel more balanced with the olbs now added to the dline position.

Out of curiosity, what are your leagues' idp lineups? What would you like them to be if Edge was added in mfl?

-oo-
Out of curiosity what type of scoring system do you use for your idp? We start 1db, 1dl, 1lb and 1 flex and are looking for a scoring revamp to make these positions to score closer to offensive positions so teams will start trading, drafting, and using the IDP more.
qb Josh Allen
rb Mixon, Chubb, Cmac, Darrynton Evans
wr Mike Evans, Davante Adams, Michael Thomas, Sutton, Claypool, Gabe Davis, Van Jefferson, Collin Johnson, Preston Williams. Mike Williams
te Kelce, Engram
lb Bobby Wagner, Dion Jones
de Quinnen Williams
db Budda Baker

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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby killer_of_giants » Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:28 am

acerocknut wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:23 am
meineymoe wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:01 pm I actually liked the change last year, getting more Edge players listed as DEs. It helped increase the field of viable dlinemen for fantasy idp purposes.

I agree with the reluctance to breaking down positional designations even further when you look at H-back or nickel or other specialty positions. Would they be able to identify enough Edge players vs DEs vs Outside linebackers to satisfy all possible fantasy options? Wouldn't most leagues end up clumping Edges with another position rather than requiring, or worse, excluding defensive ends or outside linebackers from lineups?

My league idp starting lineups include 2 dlinemen, 2 linebackers, 2 dbacks, and 2 flex. In our case, if suddenly a bunch of players were designated Edge, we'd just have to decide who to clump them in with. Mfl took care of that for us by making most of them DEs.

In past seasons, Dline was a throwaway position since there were so few decent players. We even considered reducing lineups to just 1 dlineman.But now our idp lineups feel more balanced with the olbs now added to the dline position.

Out of curiosity, what are your leagues' idp lineups? What would you like them to be if Edge was added in mfl?

-oo-
Out of curiosity what type of scoring system do you use for your idp? We start 1db, 1dl, 1lb and 1 flex and are looking for a scoring revamp to make these positions to score closer to offensive positions so teams will start trading, drafting, and using the IDP more.
it's more about number of starting positions, no scoring system will give value to IDPs in a league where you start 4.

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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby Oddball456 » Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:02 pm

killer_of_giants wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:28 am
acerocknut wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:23 am
meineymoe wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:01 pm I actually liked the change last year, getting more Edge players listed as DEs. It helped increase the field of viable dlinemen for fantasy idp purposes.

I agree with the reluctance to breaking down positional designations even further when you look at H-back or nickel or other specialty positions. Would they be able to identify enough Edge players vs DEs vs Outside linebackers to satisfy all possible fantasy options? Wouldn't most leagues end up clumping Edges with another position rather than requiring, or worse, excluding defensive ends or outside linebackers from lineups?

My league idp starting lineups include 2 dlinemen, 2 linebackers, 2 dbacks, and 2 flex. In our case, if suddenly a bunch of players were designated Edge, we'd just have to decide who to clump them in with. Mfl took care of that for us by making most of them DEs.

In past seasons, Dline was a throwaway position since there were so few decent players. We even considered reducing lineups to just 1 dlineman.But now our idp lineups feel more balanced with the olbs now added to the dline position.

Out of curiosity, what are your leagues' idp lineups? What would you like them to be if Edge was added in mfl?

-oo-
Out of curiosity what type of scoring system do you use for your idp? We start 1db, 1dl, 1lb and 1 flex and are looking for a scoring revamp to make these positions to score closer to offensive positions so teams will start trading, drafting, and using the IDP more.
it's more about number of starting positions, no scoring system will give value to IDPs in a league where you start 4.
I agree, only starting 4 IDP will make make their value be very minimal, but I have also seen some depressed IDP scoring as well. What we use which seems to make IDP points get around what OFF players get:

Assist = 1pt
Forced Fumble = 3pt
INT = 5pt
PDef = 2pt
Sack = 5pt
TK = 2pt

And of course a Def TD = 6pt, Return yards (punt, KO, INT, Fumble recovery) = 1pt/20yard, etc.

We have 8 OFF, 8 DEF, 1 K starting line-ups

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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby acerocknut » Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:25 am

Oddball456 wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:02 pm
killer_of_giants wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:28 am
acerocknut wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:23 am
Out of curiosity what type of scoring system do you use for your idp? We start 1db, 1dl, 1lb and 1 flex and are looking for a scoring revamp to make these positions to score closer to offensive positions so teams will start trading, drafting, and using the IDP more.
it's more about number of starting positions, no scoring system will give value to IDPs in a league where you start 4.
I agree, only starting 4 IDP will make make their value be very minimal, but I have also seen some depressed IDP scoring as well. What we use which seems to make IDP points get around what OFF players get:

Assist = 1pt
Forced Fumble = 3pt
INT = 5pt
PDef = 2pt
Sack = 5pt
TK = 2pt

And of course a Def TD = 6pt, Return yards (punt, KO, INT, Fumble recovery) = 1pt/20yard, etc.

We have 8 OFF, 8 DEF, 1 K starting line-ups


appreciate the response. our scoring is the same except for tackles are only one point. they were 2 points last year and a couple of guys complained. we were thinking of ways to make ipd more relevant. Maybe taking away position limits and just make it all flex?
I know that just make LBs even more valuable. What im seeing is that that having more IDP starters is what is being suggested. anyone have any other ideas? its a 1qb league.
qb Josh Allen
rb Mixon, Chubb, Cmac, Darrynton Evans
wr Mike Evans, Davante Adams, Michael Thomas, Sutton, Claypool, Gabe Davis, Van Jefferson, Collin Johnson, Preston Williams. Mike Williams
te Kelce, Engram
lb Bobby Wagner, Dion Jones
de Quinnen Williams
db Budda Baker

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Re: mfl - continues to stay half pregnant

Postby Peener » Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:24 am

Like others have said, you're never gonna have valuable IDP's if you're only starting 4. The league I play which has the highest valued IDP's we start 10 Offense and 11 Defense (3 DB, 3 LB, 3 DE, 2 Flex).

The scoring is below:

IDP TD: 6
Sack: 6
Hit on QB: 1
Solo Tackle: 1.75
Tackle for Loss: 2
Blocked Punt/Kick: 3
Interception: 5
Fumble Recovery: 3
Forced Fumble: 3
Safety: 3
Assisted Tackle: 1
Pass Defended: 3

With this scoring, last year the top 100 scorers breakdown (with a .5TEP and 4 point passing TD, everything else fairly standard on the offensive side) was:

17 QB (9 in Top 50)
12 RB (4 Top 50)
19 WR (11 Top 50)
6 TE (4 Top 50)
24 LB (15 Top 50)
12 DE (5 Top 50)
10 DB (2 Top 50)

As you can see, the IDP players make up 22 of the top 50 and 46 of the top 100. We also start an extra player on defense and even with all of this taken into account, outside of the top guys, the IDP players are not valued as much.


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