Jordan Love: Superflex talk

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:20 pm

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:46 am It’s interesting to read comments about FFers who are convinced they know more about QB play than a NFL team who has had 2 HoF QBs starting for them for the past 30 years.
April 18th, to now. What a different world.

:lol:

Oh, this thread is ripe with them. The contract stuff was particularly funny, in hindsight. He didn't bet on himself, wasn't sure of himself etc.

Hard to believe he walks into next season with that deal.

He's also hitting a ton of those incentives people thought he wouldn't.

A lot of people missed on him, glad I didn't, we all have our hits and misses. I grabbed him during the mid season lull for what turned out to be 1.09 and Tyler Allegeir is a SF league.

Got him at 15.09 of a SF league startup 2 years ago, that doesn't reward QB rushing yards more than passing yards (so 0.1 per rushing yard).

I am even surprise how quickly he's ascended, in his first year, though. It's spectacular, and good for the league. Man is he fun to watch.

EDIT:

A quick google search found this, referencing rap sheet.

https://www.thescore.com/news/2821927/related
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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby mild » Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:30 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:20 pm
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:46 am It’s interesting to read comments about FFers who are convinced they know more about QB play than a NFL team who has had 2 HoF QBs starting for them for the past 30 years.
April 18th, to now. What a different world.

:lol:

Oh, this thread is ripe with them. The contract stuff was particularly funny, in hindsight. He didn't bet on himself, wasn't sure of himself etc.
Imagine if he was walking into this offseason on the 5th year option instead!

Hell, he might even be able to ask for the Watson contract and get it! :D

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:32 pm

mild wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:30 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:20 pm
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:46 am It’s interesting to read comments about FFers who are convinced they know more about QB play than a NFL team who has had 2 HoF QBs starting for them for the past 30 years.
April 18th, to now. What a different world.

:lol:

Oh, this thread is ripe with them. The contract stuff was particularly funny, in hindsight. He didn't bet on himself, wasn't sure of himself etc.
Imagine if he was walking into this offseason on the 5th year option instead!

Hell, he might even be able to ask for the Watson contract and get it! :D
Yeah, don't temp me to pull up your comments here. :D

To your credit, you shifted perspective fairly quickly once you saw him on the field.

One thing is for sure. The NFL has another young talent at the QB position that makes watching their games not just for the fans of the team, but fans of the game, and that's a good thing.
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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby mild » Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:35 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:32 pm
mild wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:30 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:20 pm

April 18th, to now. What a different world.

:lol:

Oh, this thread is ripe with them. The contract stuff was particularly funny, in hindsight. He didn't bet on himself, wasn't sure of himself etc.
Imagine if he was walking into this offseason on the 5th year option instead!

Hell, he might even be able to ask for the Watson contract and get it! :D
Yeah, don't temp me to pull up your comments here. :D

To your credit, you shifted perspective fairly quickly once you saw him on the field.

One thing is for sure. The NFL has another young talent at the QB position that makes watching their games not just for the fans of the team, but fans of the game, and that's a good thing.
It's fair enough to be apprehensive when we don't have any sort of tangible sample size in the pros. Just like it's fair to be apprehensive of the incoming rookies until we "see it".

It was quick to see with this guy though, I didn't need any convincing after that.

I maintain that if he had simply backed himself and let his deal play out, that he would be a far richer man this offseason. You can't tell me that isn't so.

But it's fine, and it's all worked out. Especially for the other NFC North fans. :lol:

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:49 pm

mild wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:35 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:32 pm
mild wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:30 pm

Imagine if he was walking into this offseason on the 5th year option instead!

Hell, he might even be able to ask for the Watson contract and get it! :D
Yeah, don't temp me to pull up your comments here. :D

To your credit, you shifted perspective fairly quickly once you saw him on the field.

One thing is for sure. The NFL has another young talent at the QB position that makes watching their games not just for the fans of the team, but fans of the game, and that's a good thing.
It's fair enough to be apprehensive when we don't have any sort of tangible sample size in the pros. Just like it's fair to be apprehensive of the incoming rookies until we "see it".

It was quick to see with this guy though, I didn't need any convincing after that.

I maintain that if he had simply backed himself and let his deal play out, that he would be a far richer man this offseason. You can't tell me that isn't so.

But it's fine, and it's all worked out. Especially for the other NFC North fans. :lol:
The escalators were for THIS year. He had the opportunity to make more money THIS year, based on that. Next year, was cheaper for the Pack, than the 5th year option.

He got a signing bonus, AND escalators on his 4th year. His 5th year, will now be renegotiated. So he won. He bet on himself, and won. Had he let it play out, he wouldn't get a signing bonus OR escalators. He would have lost money if he'd let it play out.

You're 100 percent wrong, IF he signs an extension, and that 5th year is re-done. He's a richer man BECAUSE he signed the deal, because he put his confidence in his play this year, earning many millions more, 5 million more in escalators he's now hit with this win +signing bonus, over what he would have with his original rookie deal.

There's no way he is taking the 2nd year of the deal he signed, at this point, unless his agent is inept.

So I'm telling you it's so.
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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby moishetreats » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:26 pm

The contract he signed last May is irrelevant given his play at this point. Doesn't matter who won or lost last year: he's going to cash in, and he earned it.
10 tms 27 plrs PPR
Start: 2QB 2RB 3WR 2TE 2Flex / best ball

QB: Herbert, Love, Rodgers, G Smith, Stidham, T Taylor, Hall
RB: McCaffrey, Mixon, Pacheco, Montgomery, Z White, Allgeier, Dillon
WR: Hill, St. Brown, Kupp, Allen, Lockett, B Johnson
TE: Kelce, Kmet, Kraft, Okonkwo, Dulcich, Tremble

2024: 2.09, 3.07, 3.08, 3.10, 4.08
2025: 2nd (x2), 4th, 5th (x2)
2026: 1st, 2nd (x2), 3rd, 4th, 5th



12 tms 22 active plyrs. Salary Cap $300 PPR
Start: 1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1SF 1Flex / best ball

QB: Love ('24), Rodgers ('24), Stidham ('25), Lock ('25)
RB: Mitchell ('27), Dillon ('24), Rodriguez ('24), Spiller ('24)
WR: G Wilson ('26), AJ Brown ('26), E Moore ('25), DJ Montgomery ('25)
TE: --
2024 Cap Spent: $102

IR: --
TAXI SQUAD (4 max): --

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby Sriracha » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:39 pm

The contract extension he signed has always been a nothing burger.

If he's the dude he's going to be a very rich man. If not, the Packers save some money and Love gets instant cash flow.

He was in fact, that dude.

The Playoffs is where legends are made. We'll see where this story ends.

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:54 pm

moishetreats wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:26 pm The contract he signed last May is irrelevant given his play at this point. Doesn't matter who won or lost last year: he's going to cash in, and he earned it.
He will, and he has. BUT, he made more money by signing it. That's not irrelevant. The Pack weren't ever going to let him hit the market based on his play, but he made more than 5 million this year, vs his original 4th year contract. That's JUST in escalators, I believe, there's also a signing bonus was 13 million over 2 years, lowering his 24 cap hit, while raising his 23 cap hit. This isn't nothing. Even if they wipe out the signing bonus part of the 24 year, we're talking over 10 million MORE dollars he's earned this year, due to signing this deal.

IF they sign a new deal, sure they may wipe out the 2nd half (24 year part) of the signing bonus, but he's also going to get a way higher signing bonus on this next deal. Love has earned a huge contract, but he also made himself way more money this year, so overall, he makes more money based on his decision.

So I am plainly saying, he got more money, clear as day, this year. He will get a top end contract, and I think he wants to be in GB, and I think he might be that Brady type guy who takes a bit less to keep a team around him, though we will see.

He bet on himself. People said he didn't. He did. He wanted to push money on escalators and signing bonuses to this year, and people laughed at it. He hit a bunch, and made more money, and will now in all probability get a massive extension from the team that drafted him.

He's going to get generational wealth, that's for sure. He's a fantastic player, and a what he's done under all this pressure is astounding.

Jordan Love bet on himself from the beginning. He knew. He just insured himself with that signing bonus in case of injury.

That was my point from the start of this thread on this contract It's not that he didn't believe in himself, he did, that's why he pushed escalotors into this year. He was just smart enough to know football is a freaky sport, and if he tore his ACL week 1, that signing bonus would be tough to ever get again, based on his lack of experience on an NFL field for GM. He played it well.
Last edited by FantasyFreak on Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Habaneros make the best hot sauce. Throwing a bunch of random stuff on top of fries doesn't mean you call it "poutine".

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby mild » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:55 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:49 pm But I thought the Packers weren't willing to give him the 5th year. The escalators were for THIS year. He had the opportunity to make more money THIS year, based on that. Next year, was cheaper for the Pack, than the 5th year option.

He got a signing bonus, AND escalators on his 4th year. His 5th year, will now be renegotiated. So he won. He bet on himself, and won. Had he let it play out, he wouldn't get a signing bonus OR escalators. He would have lost money.
Nah, you're slightly memory-holing yourself on this one but that's fine.

His 5th year will count. He has already signed a contract that replaces his 5th year.

That's why it is called a contract extension. It will extend from where it currently ends. This is standard practice - neither side gets to rip it up simply because they want to.

Before the extension:

2023: Plays for $9 million (same for both versions of the deal) base salary of $2 million
2024: Gets $20.3 million fully guaranteed w/ 5th year option

(if they don't exercise it then they risk a Daniel Jones scenario on the one hand, or having to go straight to the franchise tag / $180 million contract on the other - so lets assume they do the smarter option, learn from the G-men's cautionary tale, and they are exercising the 5th year)

After the extension:

2023-2024 salaries + signing bonus are paid out as fully guaranteed ($13 million) and 2023 Base Salary is $1mil
Additional incentives of up to $9 million are added that have the ability to add on to the base salary of 2024 ($5.5mil) with each incentive hit.

He's going to hit some of them, but is also likely to miss on some others. Just for your reference, for example - $2mil of that possible $9mil is tied to winning the Conference Championship, and the Superbowl. Another $1mil is for a Pro Bowl selection, which we already know he didn't get.

As I've maintained: simply by doing nothing, he was set to earn close to $30 million by simply playing his contract out.

As it stands, he's going to earn just under $20 million. Possibly $21 million if he wins the Superbowl. (He's currently at $5mil of the possible $9mil)

Now, in both these scenarios - if he plays like this - they're doing a new contract in 2024 anyway. Regardless of anything, Jordan Love is about to be a very rich man.

But calling this "betting on yourself" isn't it. This was him getting some additional cash early and locking in security, whilst showing that he's amenable to working with the Packers on team-friendly terms.

He left ~$10 million on the table to do it, and if he hadn't played this well - it could have been worse.

It's not going to matter, but it's also not going to win you this (dumb as s---) argument. :D

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:10 pm

mild wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:55 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:49 pm But I thought the Packers weren't willing to give him the 5th year. The escalators were for THIS year. He had the opportunity to make more money THIS year, based on that. Next year, was cheaper for the Pack, than the 5th year option.

He got a signing bonus, AND escalators on his 4th year. His 5th year, will now be renegotiated. So he won. He bet on himself, and won. Had he let it play out, he wouldn't get a signing bonus OR escalators. He would have lost money.
Nah, you're slightly memory-holing yourself on this one but that's fine.

His 5th year will count. He has already signed a contract that replaces his 5th year.

That's why it is called a contract extension. It will extend from where it currently ends. This is standard practice - neither side gets to rip it up simply because they want to.

Before the extension:

2023: Plays for $9 million (same for both versions of the deal) base salary of $2 million
2024: Gets $20.3 million fully guaranteed w/ 5th year option

(if they don't exercise it then they risk a Daniel Jones scenario on the one hand, or having to go straight to the franchise tag / $180 million contract on the other - so lets assume they do the smarter option, learn from the G-men's cautionary tale, and they are exercising the 5th year)

After the extension:

2023-2024 salaries + signing bonus are paid out as fully guaranteed ($13 million) and 2023 Base Salary is $1mil
Additional incentives of up to $9 million are added that have the ability to add on to the base salary of 2024 ($5.5mil) with each incentive hit.

He's going to hit some of them, but is also likely to miss on some others. Just for your reference, for example - $2mil of that possible $9mil is tied to winning the Conference Championship, and the Superbowl. Another $1mil is for a Pro Bowl selection, which we already know he didn't get.

As I've maintained: simply by doing nothing, he was set to earn close to $30 million by simply playing his contract out.

As it stands, he's going to earn just under $20 million. Possibly $21 million if he wins the Superbowl. (He's currently at $5mil of the possible $9mil)

Now, in both these scenarios - if he plays like this - they're doing a new contract in 2024 anyway. Regardless of anything, Jordan Love is about to be a very rich man.

But calling this "betting on yourself" isn't it. This was him getting some additional cash early and locking in security, whilst showing that he's amenable to working with the Packers on team-friendly terms.

He left ~$10 million on the table to do it, and if he hadn't played this well - it could have been worse.

It's not going to matter, but it's also not going to win you this (dumb as s---) argument. :D
Teams always move money around for QB's, though. They do it in so many ways. Signing bonus etc. It will count vs the teams cap, but not vs how much they make.

Love's 5th year option was 20 million.

Love's orignal 4 years was 12 million for all 4 years. He's made 5 years in escalators alone. He got a signing bonus, too. He's going to get another one. He won dude, he got guaranteed money if he got hurt before playing and balling out, and got a bunch of escalators of 5 million plus this year, on top of that signing bonus. Once they rip up this deal and give him another singing bonus, he wins. You're entire angle was, and I'll be glad to drag it through the mud, that he didn't believe in himself with this deal.

You're like a politician, around here, pulling out selected old comments vs your supposed opponents :lol: . You really missed on Love this off season, and again, he simply played is straight, knowing you can get hurt in football. Do you really want to sit there and tell me a guy who didn't believe in himself would have that season?

Mine was, he did, he expected to play well, with the escalators, but was insuring himself vs injury. The Pack declined the 5th year. He could have torn his ACL week 1, but you seemed to think that risk for someone else who plays in the NFL was a lack of confidence. I saw it as a way to insure himself vs injury, get a bunch more money if he played well, and if he played well enough, they'd re-do a contract and give enough signing bonus to make that next year mute, like all top end QB's who get extended do. They still get their money, and the team manages the cap.
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Habaneros make the best hot sauce. Throwing a bunch of random stuff on top of fries doesn't mean you call it "poutine".

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:21 pm

mild wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 8:57 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 8:38 pm I think he was referring to the fact they didn't have to use the franchise tag, since they decided against using the rookie 5th year option. It gives them an in between financial scenario that doesn't guarantee as much as the 5th year option would be, while having him locked up for a 5th year without having to use the franchise tag.
But that's retarded? :lol:

To be clear, the options to the Packers were:
- pay him 13m gtd in 2024 with this deal (decision due now)
- pay him 20m gtd in 2024 with the 5th year option (decision due now)
- decline the option, and then pay him 33.3m on the tag in 2024 if he hits (due this time next year if taking this route)

Given that this option was amenable to Love, we needn't even entertain the Franchise Tag, because they were never going to use it given they already had those two options on the table -right now- at the most expensive position in sports - for less... like... a LOT less.

This wasn't the in-between financial scenario. This was the bargain bin one, which Love just agreed to.

Love just declined to bet on himself. There is no other way to say it.

Jimmy G just got 75.7m from your glorious team (the Las Vegas Raiders!) with 45m total gtd on a 3 year deal. Even if you take only the gtd money, that's 15m a year.

Jordan Love just told you that he agrees with the Packers: he is worth less than Jimmy G.
Big, fat L.

https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/1746686289120833967
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Habaneros make the best hot sauce. Throwing a bunch of random stuff on top of fries doesn't mean you call it "poutine".

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby mild » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:35 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:21 pm Big, fat L.

https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/1746686289120833967
The numbers don't lie :lol:

I appreciate that the maths is hard for you though.

He still hasn't earned more than he would have if he just played it out.

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby StripesOfKC » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:38 pm

I didn’t believe in the early season hot streak but he has been nothing short of exceptional since like week 10

Should be a top 20ish startup pick

Those young weapons are only going to improve

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby FantasyFreak » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:43 pm

mild wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:35 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:21 pm Big, fat L.

https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/1746686289120833967

The numbers don't lie :lol:


I appreciate that the maths is hard for you though.

He still hasn't earned more than he would have if he just played it out.
No, you do.

You're like a politician and are trying to ignore the risk of injury and the fact that someone who supposedly didn't believe in himself is this good. You try an manipulate numbers to your point, and use strawman arguments constantly. All with a condescending attitude.

You can dish it out, but can't take it. You're one of those people who thinks they are never wrong, but are all to keen to point out when others are.

I'm done with this. You're a condescending person who I want no part of.

Do the maths.
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Habaneros make the best hot sauce. Throwing a bunch of random stuff on top of fries doesn't mean you call it "poutine".

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Re: Jordan Love: Superflex talk

Postby mild » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:50 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:43 pm You can dish it out, but can't take it. You're one of those people who thinks they are never wrong, but are all to keen to point out when others are.

I'm done with this. You're a condescending person who I want no part of.

Do the maths.
The irony. :lol:

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