Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

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MacDaddy123
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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby MacDaddy123 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:18 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:51 am Full disclosure - I am a Bijan owner, and I also believe that both Bijan and MHJr are bonafide studs.

Given the information provided, I’d lean Robinson but it’s pretty close. Here’s why:

You start 2 RBs and 3 WRs. That puts positional value close because even though you start more WRs, significant WRs are also more plentiful than RBs. The 0.5 ppr helps RB value more than WR value. So RBs overall with all other things being equal are going to have more value in your league.

WRs generally are going to have more longevity than RBs, but Bijan is a very good receiver and also has a good running mate in Allgeier. That reduces the wear and tear on him. Kamara has had an 8 year career to date and entered the league a year older than Bijan, and he’s probably not done after this year yet. He may be a decent comp for career length assessment. It’s reasonable to expect similar longevity for Bijan, so it’s within reason to expect a decent 10 year career of productivity. That’s pretty solid - figure MHJr to last a couple of years longer but they’re pretty comparable.

We’ve seen that Bijan can play. His detractors can crow right now about how he’s not meeting expectations, but I see that as a false narrative. He’s already over 1200 yds from scrimmage and that’s with really poor QB play supporting him and some horrendous usage by his HC. If you start to get into the weeds on him, you’ll see things like lack of targets. He ought to be getting at least 6 targets a game with as good of a receiver as he is - and he is that good - yet he’s only had 6 or more targets in 6 games. That’s just stupid coaching. He also isn’t getting downfield on his targets. His average yds before contact receiving is -0.4 yds. That’s got to be in positive territory (Kamara’s career ave YBC is +0.4 yds) but again his usage is in serious question. Then you have many occasions where he’ll get a nice 5-7 yd gain on the first play of a drive and get pulled immediately. How does that figure in game flow?

You just can’t get around that his HC has no idea how to use a RB like Bijan. If we see Smith removed as HC and we see even mediocre QBing moving forward in ATL, it’s well within rational thought that Bijan’s productivity can improve by 10-15%, maybe more. There’s plenty of room for improvement in a system that chooses to optimize his talents.

That puts Bijan in the range of the premium RB talent that he was projected by many to be and doesn’t really get into his ceiling.

Looking at MHJr, I’m unabashedly a huge fan. I do believe he will be that good. I know we haven’t seen him in the bigs yet but he’s got all the earmarks. So I have no problem projecting him as a premium WR in the NFL.

If both projections are fairly accurate, then you’ve got a premium RB vs a premium WR going H2H here. That being the case, I’d default to value of each in your league and I do believe that Bijan will carry slightly better value. So I’d opt for Bijan between the two, but I don’t see the difference in value as being very much and think a strong case can be made for going with MHJr.
This is obviously league dependent.

I voted for MHJ > Bijan because in my leagues we start 2 RB's but 6 WR's (3 WR/3 Flex) in Full PPR.

In Full PPR, WR's tend to outscore RB's, and they are cheaper, so roughly 60% of the leagues 36 Flex slots are filled with WR's.
20% are filled with TE's (TEP 0.5), and 20% filled with RB's.

I do realize that in Half PPR, RB value increases while WR value decreases, but not everyone is playing in Half PPR leagues.

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby MacDaddy123 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:33 am

DJB wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:02 pm
MacDaddy123 wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 5:17 pm MHJ for me!!!

I felt this way since the 2023 rookie draft in May.
I said back then that Caleb, MHJ, and maybe even Drake Maye would have more value coming out in 2024 than Bijan did in 2023.

If Bijan was in the 2024 class he probably would not go until 1.05 at the earliest in SF leagues, IMO.
Yeah I’m going to disagree on this. The top 3 would be Harrison, Caleb and Bijan and they would all be interchangeable depending on need and team makeup.

And everyone loves owning a top tier RB.

The hype for Bijan last year was “the best RB prospect since Saquon” and we saw some wild trade ups for him. Once Arthur Smith is gone he will be unleashed.
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with this.
All is league dependent.
My leagues start 22 players/week, 11 offense/ 11 defense (IDP).

On offense, I start 2 RB's, so 2 out of 22 players are RB's (9.1%)
On offense I start 6 WR's, 3 WR/3 Flex (27.3%).

Not even close to everyone in my leagues love owning a top tier RB.
The key to winning in my league is to get cheap production out of your RB's.
Having a 3rd/4th round rookie pick putting up big numbers, like Kyren, Pacheco, Mostert.
These are the RB's that everyone loves to own.

I sold two of my 3 Bijan shares before week 1 kicked off, and I am very happy that I did.
In one league I got Gibbs and what turned out to be the 1.04 in a 12 team SF league for Bijan and the 2.01.
I then flipped Gibbs for London + the 1.06. So basically got London + 1.04 + 1.06 for Bijan.

In another 12 team SF TEP league, I traded away Bijan for Achane + 2024 1.09 + 2025 early 1st
Last thing I want to do in my leagues is tie up huge draft capital in the RB position.

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby trc » Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:52 am

MacDaddy123 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:33 am Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with this.
All is league dependent.
My leagues start 22 players/week, 11 offense/ 11 defense (IDP).

On offense, I start 2 RB's, so 2 out of 22 players are RB's (9.1%)
On offense I start 6 WR's, 3 WR/3 Flex (27.3%).

Not even close to everyone in my leagues love owning a top tier RB.
The key to winning in my league is to get cheap production out of your RB's.
Having a 3rd/4th round rookie pick putting up big numbers, like Kyren, Pacheco, Mostert.
These are the RB's that everyone loves to own.


I sold two of my 3 Bijan shares before week 1 kicked off, and I am very happy that I did.
In one league I got Gibbs and what turned out to be the 1.04 in a 12 team SF league for Bijan and the 2.01.
I then flipped Gibbs for London + the 1.06. So basically got London + 1.04 + 1.06 for Bijan.

In another 12 team SF TEP league, I traded away Bijan for Achane + 2024 1.09 + 2025 early 1st
Last thing I want to do in my leagues is tie up huge draft capital in the RB position.
Yes everybody would love for their random RB pick-up to produce big numbers. But what is the likelihood of all 3rd and 4th rounds RBs to do this versus having a top RB?

I reckon that in your specific league, RBs contribute less to the total points of your team versus the 'normal' start 9-11 players does.
But the point is still valid, for the most leagues having top performers at your RB gives you slightly better positional advantage than having top WR.

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby JoeJoe88 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:49 am

trc wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:52 am
MacDaddy123 wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:33 am Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with this.
All is league dependent.
My leagues start 22 players/week, 11 offense/ 11 defense (IDP).

On offense, I start 2 RB's, so 2 out of 22 players are RB's (9.1%)
On offense I start 6 WR's, 3 WR/3 Flex (27.3%).

Not even close to everyone in my leagues love owning a top tier RB.
The key to winning in my league is to get cheap production out of your RB's.
Having a 3rd/4th round rookie pick putting up big numbers, like Kyren, Pacheco, Mostert.
These are the RB's that everyone loves to own.


I sold two of my 3 Bijan shares before week 1 kicked off, and I am very happy that I did.
In one league I got Gibbs and what turned out to be the 1.04 in a 12 team SF league for Bijan and the 2.01.
I then flipped Gibbs for London + the 1.06. So basically got London + 1.04 + 1.06 for Bijan.

In another 12 team SF TEP league, I traded away Bijan for Achane + 2024 1.09 + 2025 early 1st
Last thing I want to do in my leagues is tie up huge draft capital in the RB position.
Yes everybody would love for their random RB pick-up to produce big numbers. But what is the likelihood of all 3rd and 4th rounds RBs to do this versus having a top RB?

I reckon that in your specific league, RBs contribute less to the total points of your team versus the 'normal' start 9-11 players does.
But the point is still valid, for the most leagues having top performers at your RB gives you slightly better positional advantage than having top WR.
Exactly. In my main dynasty(start 2QB start 11), CMC outscored EVERYONE this season. And yes that includes every QB.

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby BradyT » Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:55 pm

Is anyone actually concerned that MHJ might return to college?
24 roster spots - 1QB,2RB,3WR,1TE,1Flex

QB: Herbert,Minshew
RB: Breece,Walker,Taylor,BRobinson,Allgeier,Spiller
WR:Jefferson,Lamb,DJMoore,QJohnston,Jameson,MMims, T.Marshall,Shakir,Gallup
TE: Andrews,Conklin
DST:DAL
2024 picks: 1.11, 2.10, 4.01, 4.05, 4.07, 4.11

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby Finfansteve » Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:10 pm

Not at this point. He would’ve played in their bowl game if he wasn’t declaring I’m guessing
Qb: Hurts, geno Smith
Rb: JT, Gibbs, Montgomery, Roschon, Z. White, Ty Chandler
Wr: AJB, JJ, Chase, waddle, G Wilson
TE: Pitts, Kincaid, Likely, Njoku

2024 1.01, 1.04, 1.05
10 team
9 players kept yearly
Non PPR
Not super flex
Start 1/1/2/1/2 flex
1 point per first down
All tds 6 points

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby wickerkat1212 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:55 pm

Finfansteve wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:10 pm Not at this point. He would’ve played in their bowl game if he wasn’t declaring I’m guessing
this
D3:
QB—Allen, Pickett RB—Kamara, Jacobs, ZWhite, Edwards, Ford, Warren WR—Lamb, Olave, DJM, Puka, Tillman, Marshall, Jefferson, Robinson, Tucker TE—Ferguson, Schoon, Likely, Smith, Washington, Kraft PK—Prater DEF—BAL

D4:
QB—TLaw, JimmyG, Tannehill, AOC, Hall RB—Bijan, Kamara, Conner, Gainwell, Gainwell, Foreman, ZMoss, Chandler, McLaughlin, Murray WR—Jefferson, Hill, Adams, Allen, Tillman, Woods TE—Kelce, Kmet, Conklin PK—Butker DEF—PIT

Superflex 1:
QB—Mahomes, Rodgers, Mayfield RB—Bijan, Kamara, Allgeier, Singletary, Mostert, BRob, Warren, Rodriguez, Spiller WR—Chase, DJM, Devonta, MBrown, Myers, Reynold, Jones TE—Kmet, Likely, Kraft, Conklin, Hurst, Hudson PK—Elliott DEF—PHI

Superflex 2:
QB: Goff, Cousins, Wentz, White; RB: Bijan, BRob, ZWhite, Allgeier, McLaughlin WR: DJM, Higgins, JSN, Downs, RMoore, Atwell, SMoore, PCampbell, DPJ, ATP, Hutchinson, Iosivas, Devante, CJones TE: Ferguson, Kraft, Trautman, Tremble

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby CGW » Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:52 pm

BradyT wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:55 pm Is anyone actually concerned that MHJ might return to college?
No.

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby TheTroll » Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:52 pm

CGW wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:52 pm
BradyT wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:55 pm Is anyone actually concerned that MHJ might return to college?
No.
Nope. Not playing in the semi final is the lock
Team 1
Dynasty 10 team, 22 roster + 6 Taxi, PPR
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def

QB: Love, Goff, Fields
RB: Bijan, Montgomery, Kamara, Ford, K Herbert, Zeke, Mattison
WR: Jefferson, Olave, London, Ridley, Sutton, Shaheed
TE: Kincaid, Kittle, Freiermuth
K: Tucker, Sanders
DEF: CLE

Taxi: Charbs, K Mitchell, Demercado, QJ, D Douglas, W Robinson, Hooker

Picks
2024: 1.03, 3.06, 3.09, 4.09
2025: 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Team 2
Dynasty 10 team, 22 man roster + 6 Taxi, PPR, SF and TEP
1QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 Flex, 1 S Flex

QB: Allen, Goff, Watson, Jones
RB: K Williams, B Robinson, Chubb, Ford, Mostert, A Gibson, Dillon, Pierce, Zeke
WR: Olave, T Hill, Addison, D Adams, C Watson, D Johnson, G Davis, OBJ
TE: Kincaid, Kmet, Goedert

Taxi: Willis, DTR, Mims, K Miller, Demercado, Vaughn

Picks
2024: 1.08, 2.02
2025: 1, 3, 4, 5
2026: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5

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Re: Marvin Harrison Jr or Bijan Robinson?

Postby WOATjohn » Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:56 pm

Bijan’s value has to be going up with the firing of Arthur Smith. Can’t wait to see who they bring in to hopefully kickstart that offense.
12tm SF/TEP 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLX, 1SF
**23 Champ**
QB: Hurts, Goff, Mayfield, B Zappe
RB: Ekeler, Pollard, Mostert, Warren, A Jones, Mattison, Dillon, D Cook, Gray
WR: Hill, Moore, Adams, D Smith, Cooper, Dortch, Hardman
TE: Kelce, Ferguson, I Smith, Ruckert, Hendershot, Washington
3, 4

12tm PPR 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 3FLX
1st rd exit
QB: Jackson, Watson, Howell
RB: Breece, Bijan, Mostert, R Johnson, Demercado, D Foreman, Gray, D Johnson
WR: Tyreek Hill, Garrett Wilson, Tee Higgins, DeVonta Smith, Smith-Njigba, J Williams, D Bell, Bateman, N Brown, Phillips, Gage, Iosivas
TE: Kincaid, Ferguson, Granson

12tm PPR 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLX
FULL REBUILD
QB: Richardson, Ridder, Lance
RB: Achane, Javonte, Ahmed, Abanikanda, Strong, Scott, Penny, McBride
WR: G Davis, Hollywood, M Wilson, WanDale, Pierce, R Moore, Bell, Marshall
TE: Freiermuth, Kraft, Knox, Ruckert, Schoonmaker, Strange
1.01, 1.08, 1.12, 2.01, 3.01, 3.07, 3.08, 4.01, 4.02, 4.11, 5.01, 5.05, 5.10


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