Chicago trades 1st overall pick to Carolina for 4 picks + player

[McCafsteez]

So what WRs do the Panthers draft late that people can get excited about? I'd imagine even if the Panthers take a Rashee Rice or Charlie Jones (just picked two random projected late WRs), someone is going to hype them up to 1st round picks, no?

The Panthers should be excited to get a crack at a legit Franchise QB. There are two that look really good and three with plenty of legit upside. They obviously have a favorite.

It is obvious they are building for the future. Ejecting Moore off their books isn't really a bad thing. Moore's salary cap hits
$20.2 million (2023)
$16.1 million (2024)
$16.1 million (2025)

While Moore fits easily under the Bears Cap, he was somewhat a burden on the Panthers and that money will be better spent to shore up the line most likely as they look to the future.

Not a great year for FA WR's but they will draft one and plan for the future when they are ready to actually compete for a title. The could probably get a Thielen type at an affordable rate to help develop the WR room as one example.

We won't know for years on this but it wouldn't surprise in a few years that we look back and realize the Panthers won this trade. They simply need the QB to hit and in the long game no one will care about the price tag paid.

This could also end being a win/win for both teams if Fields improves to become a legit franchise QB.

I can only see this as a win/win if CAR’s 2024 1st is not a top 10 pick. If so, the Bears are in a phenomenal position again next year. I’m a huge Bears fan, but I wish nothing but the best for Carolina on this deal. The NFL, & FF for that matter, always operate better when both sides get a good deal.

[gogobradyarm]

I’ll take a receipt. CHI lost 14 games last season and despite that Fields averaged 21 pass attempts per game. He completed less than 13 passes a game. I’m not sure how they get a more adverse game script all season to throw the ball than that and yet they still refused to let Fields throw. How does Moore accumulate sufficient opportunities?

The math didn't add up for Diggs or AJB when they changed offenses to run heavy QBs as well...

Imagine a world where an offense changes/schemes for it's best players...a concept some magically can't understand

Hurts threw 28 - leas than 2 more attempts per game - more passes in 2022 than he did in 2021. Fields is going to have to throw 50% more passes in 2023 to get to where Hurts was last season. Let me know how that concept magically turns out. You’re talking about a team in a passing league that threw for 300 less yards than the next fewest yards of any team in the past decade. That’s what you’re pimping to have Moore suddenly balloon his receiving numbers.

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

[grandmabetty]

The math didn't add up for Diggs or AJB when they changed offenses to run heavy QBs as well...

Imagine a world where an offense changes/schemes for it's best players...a concept some magically can't understand

Hurts threw 28 - leas than 2 more attempts per game - more passes in 2022 than he did in 2021. Fields is going to have to throw 50% more passes in 2023 to get to where Hurts was last season. Let me know how that concept magically turns out. You’re talking about a team in a passing league that threw for 300 less yards than the next fewest yards of any team in the past decade. That’s what you’re pimping to have Moore suddenly balloon his receiving numbers.

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

I could be wrong but Chicago's defense was terrible last year and allowed more possessions than most teams. If there is an improvement on that side of the ball fields will have more opportunities on offense

[Forza_Azzurri]

The math didn't add up for Diggs or AJB when they changed offenses to run heavy QBs as well...

Imagine a world where an offense changes/schemes for it's best players...a concept some magically can't understand

Hurts threw 28 - leas than 2 more attempts per game - more passes in 2022 than he did in 2021. Fields is going to have to throw 50% more passes in 2023 to get to where Hurts was last season. Let me know how that concept magically turns out. You’re talking about a team in a passing league that threw for 300 less yards than the next fewest yards of any team in the past decade. That’s what you’re pimping to have Moore suddenly balloon his receiving numbers.

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

Because once the naysayers on this board reach an opinion on a player that player can never develop and his situation can never improve. Improvement has never been seen before in the NFL.

[Pullo Vision]

So what WRs do the Panthers draft late that people can get excited about? I'd imagine even if the Panthers take a Rashee Rice or Charlie Jones (just picked two random projected late WRs), someone is going to hype them up to 1st round picks, no?

The Panthers should be excited to get a crack at a legit Franchise QB. There are two that look really good and three with plenty of legit upside. They obviously have a favorite.

It is obvious they are building for the future. Ejecting Moore off their books isn't really a bad thing. Moore's salary cap hits
$20.2 million (2023)
$16.1 million (2024)
$16.1 million (2025)

While Moore fits easily under the Bears Cap, he was somewhat a burden on the Panthers and that money will be better spent to shore up the line most likely as they look to the future.

Not a great year for FA WR's but they will draft one and plan for the future when they are ready to actually compete for a title. The could probably get a Thielen type at an affordable rate to help develop the WR room as one example.

We won't know for years on this but it wouldn't surprise in a few years that we look back and realize the Panthers won this trade. They simply need the QB to hit and in the long game no one will care about the price tag paid.

This could also end being a win/win for both teams if Fields improves to become a legit franchise QB.

Looks Carolina has crazy cap space next year- something like150 mil before extensions. Before the trade, the belief was they were set at many positions- good OL, defense pretty set throughout and they could patch together the run game. That's why they moved hard for QB.

FA WRs for 2024 (ignoring tags/extensions)- Jefferson, Lamb, Higgins, Pittman, Jeudy, Evans, Aiyuk, Hollywood, Ridley, Gabe Davis, Mooney, Claypool, Corey Davis, DPJ.

[olmansmith]

Hurts threw 28 - leas than 2 more attempts per game - more passes in 2022 than he did in 2021. Fields is going to have to throw 50% more passes in 2023 to get to where Hurts was last season. Let me know how that concept magically turns out. You’re talking about a team in a passing league that threw for 300 less yards than the next fewest yards of any team in the past decade. That’s what you’re pimping to have Moore suddenly balloon his receiving numbers.

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

Because once the naysayers on this board reach an opinion on a player that player can never develop and his situation can never improve. Improvement has never been seen before in the NFL.

Josh Allen's jump (which is considered a crazy outlier):
2019: 271/461 for 3089 yards (59% completion rate)
2020: 396/572 for 4544 yards (69% completion rate)
That's a jump of 25% attempts, 50% completions, 50% yards

Fields projected jump if using Josh Allen's metrics:
2022: 192/318 for 2242 yards (60% completion rate)
2023 (projected): 288/400 for 3363 yards (72% completion rate)

So even if Fields jumps with Allen's outlier increase and he ends up being a more efficient QB, he still only throws for 3363 yards (the 2022 panthers threw for 3246 yards)

I don't think people are saying Fields *can't* make the jump, I think any fan of football would love to see that jump. I think the arguments are the following:
1. Fields making that jump doesn't make him a top tier passer, it makes him an average passer which means DJM only gets a slight bump if Fields makes this jump. The caveat being if DJM has an abnormally high TD total or becomes an elite YAC guy like AJB
2. Fields will almost surely still be an elite *fantasy* QB this year
3. Fields can develop to be an elite passer with time and giving him strong weapons is a great way to do that

Definitely a very hot take IMO to say that Fields will support 4 pass catchers or that DJM will have 1400 yards/be an elite WR this year the way diggs/ajb were post trade.

[FantasyFreak]

So what WRs do the Panthers draft late that people can get excited about? I'd imagine even if the Panthers take a Rashee Rice or Charlie Jones (just picked two random projected late WRs), someone is going to hype them up to 1st round picks, no?

The Panthers should be excited to get a crack at a legit Franchise QB. There are two that look really good and three with plenty of legit upside. They obviously have a favorite.

It is obvious they are building for the future. Ejecting Moore off their books isn't really a bad thing. Moore's salary cap hits
$20.2 million (2023)
$16.1 million (2024)
$16.1 million (2025)

While Moore fits easily under the Bears Cap, he was somewhat a burden on the Panthers and that money will be better spent to shore up the line most likely as they look to the future.

Not a great year for FA WR's but they will draft one and plan for the future when they are ready to actually compete for a title. The could probably get a Thielen type at an affordable rate to help develop the WR room as one example.

We won't know for years on this but it wouldn't surprise in a few years that we look back and realize the Panthers won this trade. They simply need the QB to hit and in the long game no one will care about the price tag paid.

This could also end being a win/win for both teams if Fields improves to become a legit franchise QB.

Looks Carolina has crazy cap space next year- something like150 mil before extensions. Before the trade, the belief was they were set at many positions- good OL, defense pretty set throughout and they could patch together the run game. That's why they moved hard for QB.

FA WRs for 2024 (ignoring tags/extensions)- Jefferson, Lamb, Higgins, Pittman, Jeudy, Evans, Aiyuk, Hollywood, Ridley, Gabe Davis, Mooney, Claypool, Corey Davis, DPJ.

So it could be a situation like with Lawrence and Jax, in FA for 2024, by the sounds of it. Lot's of spending to help their 2nd year QB.

[Ice]

The Panthers should be excited to get a crack at a legit Franchise QB. There are two that look really good and three with plenty of legit upside. They obviously have a favorite.

It is obvious they are building for the future. Ejecting Moore off their books isn't really a bad thing. Moore's salary cap hits
$20.2 million (2023)
$16.1 million (2024)
$16.1 million (2025)

While Moore fits easily under the Bears Cap, he was somewhat a burden on the Panthers and that money will be better spent to shore up the line most likely as they look to the future.

Not a great year for FA WR's but they will draft one and plan for the future when they are ready to actually compete for a title. The could probably get a Thielen type at an affordable rate to help develop the WR room as one example.

We won't know for years on this but it wouldn't surprise in a few years that we look back and realize the Panthers won this trade. They simply need the QB to hit and in the long game no one will care about the price tag paid.

This could also end being a win/win for both teams if Fields improves to become a legit franchise QB.

Looks Carolina has crazy cap space next year- something like150 mil before extensions. Before the trade, the belief was they were set at many positions- good OL, defense pretty set throughout and they could patch together the run game. That's why they moved hard for QB.

FA WRs for 2024 (ignoring tags/extensions)- Jefferson, Lamb, Higgins, Pittman, Jeudy, Evans, Aiyuk, Hollywood, Ridley, Gabe Davis, Mooney, Claypool, Corey Davis, DPJ.

So it could be a situation like with Lawrence and Jax, in FA for 2024, by the sounds of it. Lot's of spending to help their 2nd year QB.

That's exactly how I see it. At least it's a sound rebuild plan.

The Panthers do have talent at several positions already so a year to settle into a new system with a new QB and the money to fill holes as they build for the future.

[wickerkat1212]

CAR is going to take Richardson. Maybe the trade back one with HOU.

[Bronco Billy]

The math didn't add up for Diggs or AJB when they changed offenses to run heavy QBs as well...

Imagine a world where an offense changes/schemes for it's best players...a concept some magically can't understand

Hurts threw 28 - leas than 2 more attempts per game - more passes in 2022 than he did in 2021. Fields is going to have to throw 50% more passes in 2023 to get to where Hurts was last season. Let me know how that concept magically turns out. You’re talking about a team in a passing league that threw for 300 less yards than the next fewest yards of any team in the past decade. That’s what you’re pimping to have Moore suddenly balloon his receiving numbers.

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

No, Allen did not. He threw 461 passes in 2019 without Diggs and 572 in 2020 with Diggs. That’s an increase of 24%. That kind of jump for Fields would still leave him low on passing production, which in turn would leave Moore low on opportunity. That same increase would give Fields 26 pass attempts each game where he completes 16 of them. Even completing 17 of those 26 passes would give him a large jump in completion percentage. How many passes a game are you envisioning Moore catching?

Here’s another difference you seem to be unwilling to take into account: Fields is not Allen. His throwing issues are different. And here’s yet another: BUF in 2019 was a 10-6 team ready to take the next step as a contender. CHI is not remotely in the same situation. How is game scripting in CHI going to be more conducive to passing than in a year when they lost 14 games?

These are completely separate scenarios yet you are certain that they have to have the same outcome. I’ll admit it is possible, but I’m very skeptical that it is reasonable to expect it.

[wickerkat1212]

Bears lost 7/8 games by one score. If they'd won 50% instead of ONE they would have been 6-11. With these improvements at WR, plus i assume major moves and upgrades on OL/DL, I can see them at 50/50 or 9-8 even. They will be passing more for sure. He passed LESS because nobody got open, and his WR were bad. Improved WRs, better OL, means increase in passing. He was NOT a "running QB" in college.

[nathanq42]

Hard to say what came first, underperforming WRs in CHI or poor QB play from Fields.

Considering Fields' success in college and draft capital I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt considering he was throwing to Mooney, Claypool, E. St Brown, and Kmet all year... Not exactly inspiring

Neutral with upside for DJ Moore

[gogobradyarm]

Hurts threw 28 - leas than 2 more attempts per game - more passes in 2022 than he did in 2021. Fields is going to have to throw 50% more passes in 2023 to get to where Hurts was last season. Let me know how that concept magically turns out. You’re talking about a team in a passing league that threw for 300 less yards than the next fewest yards of any team in the past decade. That’s what you’re pimping to have Moore suddenly balloon his receiving numbers.

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

No, Allen did not. He threw 461 passes in 2019 without Diggs and 572 in 2020 with Diggs. That’s an increase of 24%. That kind of jump for Fields would still leave him low on passing production, which in turn would leave Moore low on opportunity. That same increase would give Fields 26 pass attempts each game where he completes 16 of them. Even completing 17 of those 26 passes would give him a large jump in completion percentage. How many passes a game are you envisioning Moore catching?

Here’s another difference you seem to be unwilling to take into account: Fields is not Allen. His throwing issues are different. And here’s yet another: BUF in 2019 was a 10-6 team ready to take the next step as a contender. CHI is not remotely in the same situation. How is game scripting in CHI going to be more conducive to passing than in a year when they lost 14 games?

These are completely separate scenarios yet you are certain that they have to have the same outcome. I’ll admit it is possible, but I’m very skeptical that it is reasonable to expect it.

Correction: the year after he got Diggs
2019 to 2021 was a 40% increase in pass attempts for Josh Allen

Just proves the case that DJM will be better than Jerry Rice

[Bronco Billy]

I already covered this argument...

Josh Allen literallly threw 40% more the year he got Diggs..

Why is it so hard to believe that offenses shift when they get new players, sometimes, drastically....

No, Allen did not. He threw 461 passes in 2019 without Diggs and 572 in 2020 with Diggs. That’s an increase of 24%. That kind of jump for Fields would still leave him low on passing production, which in turn would leave Moore low on opportunity. That same increase would give Fields 26 pass attempts each game where he completes 16 of them. Even completing 17 of those 26 passes would give him a large jump in completion percentage. How many passes a game are you envisioning Moore catching?

Here’s another difference you seem to be unwilling to take into account: Fields is not Allen. His throwing issues are different. And here’s yet another: BUF in 2019 was a 10-6 team ready to take the next step as a contender. CHI is not remotely in the same situation. How is game scripting in CHI going to be more conducive to passing than in a year when they lost 14 games?

These are completely separate scenarios yet you are certain that they have to have the same outcome. I’ll admit it is possible, but I’m very skeptical that it is reasonable to expect it.

Correction: the year after he got Diggs
2019 to 2021 was a 40% increase in pass attempts for Josh Allen

Just proves the case that DJM will be better than Jerry Rice

You convinced me. I’m trading the 1.01 for Moore.

[Kurtrambis1]

Hard to say what came first, underperforming WRs in CHI or poor QB play from Fields.

Considering Fields' success in college and draft capital I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt considering he was throwing to Mooney, Claypool, E. St Brown, and Kmet all year... Not exactly inspiring

Neutral with upside for DJ Moore

As someone who unfortunately watched most of the Bears game this season, it was a combination of lack of talent of the WRs and the worst offensive line in the NFL in terms of pass protection.

I honestly don’t really know if we can evaluate his passing game off of last year. It was that bad.

Who is the person who said Fields could support 4 offensive weapons? Because I see people putting that idea down (which I agree with) but I don’t know if anyone believes he could? Seems like a weak argument people are using to downplay the situation for Moore. This offense probably won’t support 4 pass catchers but that doesn’t mean it’s bad for Moore.