Trevor Lawrence moving forward

[Dynasty DeLorean]

How do you quantify Herbert’s surroundings and coaching to date to Lawrence’s when the latter had to labor under Urban Meyer his rookie year for example?

I have Lawrence on 2 teams and Herbert on 1. Trust me I'm on team Lawrence. But he makes more off-target throws and more bad decisions than Herbert, even this year. I'm not sure what stats you are referring to but Herbert has double the "money throws" of Lawrence, per Player Profiler. Higher QBR. Better pressured completion %, better clean pocket completion %. Herbert receivers are getting less target separation. Lawrence has a small edge in some categories, Herbert has a small edge in others and a big edge in a few. Lawrence has a 3.2% interceptable pass rate and Herberts is 3.3%, so basically no difference there. I'm not really interested in arguing who is having the better year, but I don't know where you're coming up with that Lawrence's year is better than Herberts. I feel like at most you could say Lawrence is having a year that is on par with Herberts.

[Ice]

Ice - I’m not at all comparing Lawrence to Baker. I’m just saying that half a season is not the same as 3 years. I am a Lawrence owner and absolutely hope he becomes an every year stud, and I do think he looks the part.

But taking him over Herbert is bad process, IMO.

I was mainly playing as I read your Howard Stern type take.

It is always about trajectory. I get you looking through a short prism game window but I have been following Lawrence since High School and one can count on one hand the number of QB's to ever enter the league with a better skill set.

Not saying I would take him over Herbert either at this point due to weapons mainly, but putting him in that tier isn't a bad process. Lawrence is actually averaging 22.4 to 20.9 YTD over Herbert. That is 15 games for Lawrence and 14 for Herbert. Lawrence has scored around 40 more points YTD. They are razor close in points and skill set.

That said, there was no bigger advocate of Herbert than me when he entered the league. I felt I was on an Island telling anyone who would listen he was going to be an outstanding professional.

I traded Watson away for the chance to draft Herbert in a league. I also got Odell in that deal.

This sure looks to be the era of great QB's. They are many great ones that are really young. Hard to go wrong with any in that upper tier.

[Bronco Billy]

How do you quantify Herbert’s surroundings and coaching to date to Lawrence’s when the latter had to labor under Urban Meyer his rookie year for example?

I have Lawrence on 2 teams and Herbert on 1. Trust me I'm on team Lawrence. But he makes more off-target throws and more bad decisions than Herbert, even this year. I'm not sure what stats you are referring to but Herbert has double the "money throws" of Lawrence, per Player Profiler. Higher QBR. Better pressured completion %, better clean pocket completion %. Herbert receivers are getting less target separation. Lawrence has a small edge in some categories, Herbert has a small edge in others and a big edge in a few. Lawrence has a 3.2% interceptable pass rate and Herberts is 3.3%, so basically no difference there. I'm not really interested in arguing who is having the better year, but I don't know where you're coming up with that Lawrence's year is better than Herberts. I feel like at most you could say Lawrence is having a year that is on par with Herberts.

Player TD% Int% Y/A AY/A Y/C Rate QBR Sk% NY/A ANY/A
Herbert 3.5 1.5 6.7 6.7 9.9 91.5 57.3 5.2 6.04 6.06
Lawrence 4.5 1.3 7.1 7.4 10.7 96 57 4.5 6.44 6.74

Also, despite throwing significantly fewer passes, Lawrence’s receivers have a couple more drops than Herbert’s.

I’ll agree right now that I’d prefer Herbert over Lawrence, but what I don’t know is if that will be the case in s year or two. Only time will tell.

[j4pac]

Herbert’s not the best prospective I’ve ever seen. That’d be Lawrence. Sure, there is a bit of speculation that goes into this. But I love his trajectory. He’s turning into the QB that I knew he would become. Next year with Ridley, and perhaps another piece as well? Yeah, I’m excited. He’s making average joes look like superstars out there right now. He also plays in a division that he could mop the floor with over the next decade ala Brady with the Patriots and Manning with the Colts.

I have both Lawrence and Herbert in the second tier, but no way would I trade Lawrence away for Herbert. I own them both in different leagues, and the decision is pretty easy to me.

[BabyChark23]

I have both Lawrence and Herbert in the second tier, but no way would I trade Lawrence away for Herbert.

I agree with this. They are in the same tier for me as well. It’s one of those situations where if I received an offer of Herbert for my Lawrence straight up, I would decline. I imagine the Herbert owner would do the same if someone offered Lawrence straight up.

[MacDaddy123]

I have both Lawrence and Herbert in the second tier, but no way would I trade Lawrence away for Herbert.

I agree with this. They are in the same tier for me as well. It’s one of those situations where if I received an offer of Herbert for my Lawrence straight up, I would decline. I imagine the Herbert owner would do the same if someone offered Lawrence straight up.

I still slightly favor Herbert, but had to laugh when 4 days ago I received an offer of Justin Herbert for my Trevor Lawrence + my 2023 pick 1.01.

Easy decline.

[bjd5211]

Elite QB

[halfbaked88]

Elite QB

Elite. At throwing as many INTs in the 1st quarter as humanly possible.

[bjd5211]

And overcame it, nobody is going to be perfect. Most guys would fold after that and game would be over.

[halfbaked88]

And overcame it, nobody is going to be perfect. Most guys would fold after that and game would be over.

That's one way to look at it. Staley losing his job in one of the worst playoff losses in history is another.

When you're up 27 - 0 at halftime that's more so the other team giving away a win vs. an epic comeback IMO, but two sides to the same coin I suppose. Doesn't help that the Chargers defense in the 4th quarter couldn't stop a fart. Herbert needs a young difference making WR badly.

Congrats to Trevor Lawrence. We probably shouldn't give too much credit for climbing out of a hole you got yourself into, but a win is a win.

[BabyChark23]

And overcame it, nobody is going to be perfect. Most guys would fold after that and game would be over.

That's one way to look at it. Staley losing his job in one of the worst playoff losses in history is another.

When you're up 27 - 0 at halftime that's more so the other team giving away a win vs. an epic comeback IMO, but two sides to the same coin I suppose. Doesn't help that the Chargers defense in the 4th quarter couldn't stop a fart. Herbert needs a young difference making WR badly.

Congrats to Trevor Lawrence. We probably shouldn't give too much credit for climbing out of a hole you got yourself into, but a win is a win.

Chargers fan?

[halfbaked88]

And overcame it, nobody is going to be perfect. Most guys would fold after that and game would be over.

That's one way to look at it. Staley losing his job in one of the worst playoff losses in history is another.

When you're up 27 - 0 at halftime that's more so the other team giving away a win vs. an epic comeback IMO, but two sides to the same coin I suppose. Doesn't help that the Chargers defense in the 4th quarter couldn't stop a fart. Herbert needs a young difference making WR badly.

Congrats to Trevor Lawrence. We probably shouldn't give too much credit for climbing out of a hole you got yourself into, but a win is a win.

Chargers fan?

Dallas.

[qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj]

And overcame it, nobody is going to be perfect. Most guys would fold after that and game would be over.

That's one way to look at it. Staley losing his job in one of the worst playoff losses in history is another.

When you're up 27 - 0 at halftime that's more so the other team giving away a win vs. an epic comeback IMO, but two sides to the same coin I suppose. Doesn't help that the Chargers defense in the 4th quarter couldn't stop a fart. Herbert needs a young difference making WR badly.

Congrats to Trevor Lawrence. We probably shouldn't give too much credit for climbing out of a hole you got yourself into, but a win is a win.

Not that he's that young by NFL standards, but having Mike Williams sure would have been nice for Herbert. Too bad he got hurt playing in an irrelevant game last week.

But as a San Diegan and former Chargers fan, this was as unsurprising to me as it was hilarious.

[Bronco Billy]

Congrats to Trevor Lawrence. We probably shouldn't give too much credit for climbing out of a hole you got yourself into, but a win is a win.

Oddly, that’s precisely why he should be receiving the credit he’s getting. That performance required a pretty substantial amount of mental toughness given the size of the hole that he dug, above and beyond the magnitude of the comeback itself.

[halfbaked88]

Congrats to Trevor Lawrence. We probably shouldn't give too much credit for climbing out of a hole you got yourself into, but a win is a win.

Oddly, that’s precisely why he should be receiving the credit he’s getting. That performance required a pretty substantial amount of mental toughness given the size of the hole that he dug, above and beyond the magnitude of the comeback itself.

I really don't get this argument, not just with Trevor, but any QB that sabotages their team early. What exactly do you expect them to do? Collapse like a little kid in a toy aisle? Throw up their hands and be like, "I can't do it anymore coach I suck!" And go home?

They're adult, professional athletes. You just go out there and keep playing???