Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?

[Cameron Giles]

2 yr extension for 36 mill with 27 mill guaranteed.

Takes the wind out of the Pickens sails at least for the next 3 years.

I think the path is still there for Pickens long-term. It probably hurts Claypool the most, but the Steelers have always been pretty good at managing multiple talented WRs together.

They needed to keep Johnson. It'll be interesting to see how much Pickett funnels to him. BB used Johnson as a safety blanket because he was the closest thing to AB.

I personally don't understand the drumbeat around Pickens being an elite talent that is assured to overtake Claypool.

Dude is a knucklehead and needs to improve at the catch point and in the intermediate areas of the field.. but he's a monster size/speed specimen with rare fluidity for his size and had a very strong rookie season.

Meanwhile everyone is ignoring the fact that Pickens was chosen in the late 2nd round and was taken behind guys like Wandale Robinson, John Metchie and Tyquan Thornton.. and while everyone likes to bring up that Watson has never had a 1,000 yard season Pickens hasn't even sniffed that total never getting close to the 727 yards he posted as a freshman.

He has some alluring traits and he could certainly develop into a player but at this point in time I'd be surprised if he overtook Claypool in the near future.

I think you make great points about Pickens. There's definitely a chance that he's an overhyped and troubled elite HS recruit like DGB, but unlike DGB...he broke out as a freshman and it's very possible he could've done more if it weren't for the ACL injury as a junior.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's going to overtake Claypool as a rookie, but I do think that his path for upside goes through Claypool more than it does Diontae.

[Sriracha]

I think the path is still there for Pickens long-term. It probably hurts Claypool the most, but the Steelers have always been pretty good at managing multiple talented WRs together.

They needed to keep Johnson. It'll be interesting to see how much Pickett funnels to him. BB used Johnson as a safety blanket because he was the closest thing to AB.

I personally don't understand the drumbeat around Pickens being an elite talent that is assured to overtake Claypool.

Dude is a knucklehead and needs to improve at the catch point and in the intermediate areas of the field.. but he's a monster size/speed specimen with rare fluidity for his size and had a very strong rookie season.

Meanwhile everyone is ignoring the fact that Pickens was chosen in the late 2nd round and was taken behind guys like Wandale Robinson, John Metchie and Tyquan Thornton.. and while everyone likes to bring up that Watson has never had a 1,000 yard season Pickens hasn't even sniffed that total never getting close to the 727 yards he posted as a freshman.

He has some alluring traits and he could certainly develop into a player but at this point in time I'd be surprised if he overtook Claypool in the near future.

I think you make great points about Pickens. There's definitely a chance that he's an overhyped and troubled elite HS recruit like DGB, but unlike DGB...he broke out as a freshman and it's very possible he could've done more if it weren't for the ACL injury as a junior.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's going to overtake Claypool as a rookie, but I do think that his path for upside goes through Claypool more than it does Diontae.

It's going to be very interesting to see how these guys shake out.

I could see them kicking Claypool in as a "big slot" while keeping Diontae out at X (where he destroys press coverage) and using Pickens at Z. From there, it'll be interesting to see if he can convince the Steelers to take Claypool off for him in two receiver sets.

My worry here is that this offense is going to struggle given the QBs on the roster and there isn't going to be a lot of meat left for the secondary and tertiary receivers -- which is the reason that Diontae being locked into that roster for the next 3 years hurts him, imo. It significantly reduces his floor if QB play is an issue.

[mild]

I personally don't understand the drumbeat around Pickens being an elite talent that is assured to overtake Claypool.

Dude is a knucklehead and needs to improve at the catch point and in the intermediate areas of the field.. but he's a monster size/speed specimen with rare fluidity for his size and had a very strong rookie season.

Meanwhile everyone is ignoring the fact that Pickens was chosen in the late 2nd round and was taken behind guys like Wandale Robinson, John Metchie and Tyquan Thornton.. and while everyone likes to bring up that Watson has never had a 1,000 yard season Pickens hasn't even sniffed that total never getting close to the 727 yards he posted as a freshman.

He has some alluring traits and he could certainly develop into a player but at this point in time I'd be surprised if he overtook Claypool in the near future.

It's weird, because you clearly -do- see some of the picture here - you cite his traits, and his draft capital.

To the "he went after John Metchie and Wandale" - sure, he did - but he went to the Steelers. I have heard that the Steelers are rather good at WR evaluation. And we're not holding the same thing against Skyy Moore either. All reports thus far are that Skyy and Pickens are both absolutely balling at camps, and showing the traits that had them on our radar.

Robert Mays hosted an excellent conversation with Matt Harmon from Reception Perception this week, you can hear it here. They dropped some pretty great knowledge about this WR corps - Diontae, number 2 in beating Zone Coverage (behind only Cooper Kupp!) - and they theorised that the likely deployment of these guys is Pickens and Diontae outside, and Claypool in the "big slot" role... slash, the "we'll see" role once we hit next offseason. With Diontae locked up, Claypool is now the odd man out in terms of job security.

As Harmon and Mays rightly discuss - his numbers showed true promise from the slot in his rookie season, but he regressed hard last year, and further did little to ingratiate himself to the coaching staff with his knucklehead moments. He also completely sucked at beating Corners in man/press-man on the outside... RP suggests his best role is as the big slot that's taking over the league right now. (Kupp, Godwin, etc)

[Sriracha]

I personally don't understand the drumbeat around Pickens being an elite talent that is assured to overtake Claypool.

Dude is a knucklehead and needs to improve at the catch point and in the intermediate areas of the field.. but he's a monster size/speed specimen with rare fluidity for his size and had a very strong rookie season.

Meanwhile everyone is ignoring the fact that Pickens was chosen in the late 2nd round and was taken behind guys like Wandale Robinson, John Metchie and Tyquan Thornton.. and while everyone likes to bring up that Watson has never had a 1,000 yard season Pickens hasn't even sniffed that total never getting close to the 727 yards he posted as a freshman.

He has some alluring traits and he could certainly develop into a player but at this point in time I'd be surprised if he overtook Claypool in the near future.

It's weird, because you clearly -do- see some of the picture here - you cite his traits, and his draft capital.

To the "he went after John Metchie and Wandale" - sure, he did - but he went to the Steelers. I have heard that the Steelers are rather good at WR evaluation. And we're not holding the same thing against Skyy Moore either. All reports thus far are that Skyy and Pickens are both absolutely balling at camps, and showing the traits that had them on our radar.

Robert Mays hosted an excellent conversation with Matt Harmon from Reception Perception this week, you can hear it here. They dropped some pretty great knowledge about this WR corps - Diontae, number 2 in beating Zone Coverage (behind only Cooper Kupp!) - and they theorised that the likely deployment of these guys is Pickens and Diontae outside, and Claypool in the "big slot" role... slash, the "we'll see" role once we hit next offseason. With Diontae locked up, Claypool is now the odd man out in terms of job security.

As Harmon and Mays rightly discuss - his numbers showed true promise from the slot in his rookie season, but he regressed hard last year, and further did little to ingratiate himself to the coaching staff with his knucklehead moments. He also completely sucked at beating Corners in man/press-man on the outside... RP suggests his best role is as the big slot that's taking over the league right now. (Kupp, Godwin, etc)

The interesting thing here is how different Claypool's RP is from his rookie to Sophomore season. Like you mentioned he struggled mightily in year 2 vs man/press but he posted a phenomenal 80th percentile success rate vs press coverage his rookie year.

https://twitter.com/mattharmon_byb/stat ... 5476312073

I'm not sure why his play suffered so much going from year 1 to year 2; Perhaps it was a maturity issue after he tasted a little success his rookie year and he took the pedal off the gas in his off-season preparations, or maybe the ankle injury he suffered in pre-season nagged him throughout the season limiting his lateral movement.

In any case, he's a very big unknown at this point and I don't see Pickens as the type of talent that assures he's kicked down the depth chart.

By many accounts last year humbled Claypool a bit and his coaches this off-season have already mentioned his maturation this off-season. I'll be interested to see how he does this year and if he'll be limited to "big slot" or if the ability he showed to beat press coverage his rookie year will show up once again.

Regarding Skyy Moore, I'm also holding reservations on him. There's been a lot of hype on him this off-season.. but there's also been hype for literally every WR on the roster from Justin Watson to MVS to Juju to Mecole Hardman.

I don't think he's a lock to emerge as the WR1 on that roster and liken the hype train going on there to the one happening in GB where Romeo Doubs is suddenly being compared to the Packer greats and Rodgers' is calling Allen Lazard a future HoFer.

These QBs want to make it clear that they're the driving force of the offense and the future HoF WRs leaving the offense aren't going to limit the offensive potential.

[mild]

In any case, he's a very big unknown at this point and I don't see Pickens as the type of talent that assures he's kicked down the depth chart.

Well, that's just where we'll have to disagree. Pickens upside to me is tremendous, and I see him and Diontae as the future of this team at WR. So do the Steelers, speaking strictly by the state of the current contracts in that room.

Regarding Skyy Moore, I'm also holding reservations on him. There's been a lot of hype on him this off-season.. but there's also been hype for literally every WR on the roster from Justin Watson to MVS to Juju to Mecole Hardman.

I don't think he's a lock to emerge as the WR1 on that roster...

At the risk of getting off topic here, let's just say that by certain metrics, it's easy to see what made Skyy Moore such an obvious pick for the Chiefs in Round 2.

The fact that by all reports he's been shredding whilst working alongside perhaps the most gifted QB in the league in camp thus far should really come as no surprise to those that put stock in such data. (I know I do)

I don't think he'll ever be Tyreek Hill, but he doesn't have to be to make an impact for the Chiefs. He profiles as a dirty work king, and I expect he's going to fill that role extremely successfully for years to come in KC.

[ericanadian]

I personally don't understand the drumbeat around Pickens being an elite talent that is assured to overtake Claypool.

Dude is a knucklehead and needs to improve at the catch point and in the intermediate areas of the field.. but he's a monster size/speed specimen with rare fluidity for his size and had a very strong rookie season.

Meanwhile everyone is ignoring the fact that Pickens was chosen in the late 2nd round and was taken behind guys like Wandale Robinson, John Metchie and Tyquan Thornton.. and while everyone likes to bring up that Watson has never had a 1,000 yard season Pickens hasn't even sniffed that total never getting close to the 727 yards he posted as a freshman.

He has some alluring traits and he could certainly develop into a player but at this point in time I'd be surprised if he overtook Claypool in the near future.

It's weird, because you clearly -do- see some of the picture here - you cite his traits, and his draft capital.

To the "he went after John Metchie and Wandale" - sure, he did - but he went to the Steelers. I have heard that the Steelers are rather good at WR evaluation. And we're not holding the same thing against Skyy Moore either. All reports thus far are that Skyy and Pickens are both absolutely balling at camps, and showing the traits that had them on our radar.

Robert Mays hosted an excellent conversation with Matt Harmon from Reception Perception this week, you can hear it here. They dropped some pretty great knowledge about this WR corps - Diontae, number 2 in beating Zone Coverage (behind only Cooper Kupp!) - and they theorised that the likely deployment of these guys is Pickens and Diontae outside, and Claypool in the "big slot" role... slash, the "we'll see" role once we hit next offseason. With Diontae locked up, Claypool is now the odd man out in terms of job security.

As Harmon and Mays rightly discuss - his numbers showed true promise from the slot in his rookie season, but he regressed hard last year, and further did little to ingratiate himself to the coaching staff with his knucklehead moments. He also completely sucked at beating Corners in man/press-man on the outside... RP suggests his best role is as the big slot that's taking over the league right now. (Kupp, Godwin, etc)

Having a star QB can make you appear pretty good at drafting receivers and the Steelers have still brought in guys like Martavis Bryant, James Washington, Sammie Coates & Markus Wheaton over the last ten years. Are we even sure if Juju is considered a hit anymore? One big season and three not so good ones since. The whole premise seems to be that Claypool is going to get passed and would therefore also probably be a miss. I think the Steelers draft acumen at drafting receivers is wildly overrated.

[mild]

I think the Steelers draft acumen at drafting receivers is wildly overrated.

Jeez, I'd hate to hear what you have to say about the Eagles...

They've found AB, Mike Wallace, Juju, Diontae, Emmanuel Sanders... Claypool, even Martavis flashed talent... without ever spending higher than a 2nd.

That's pretty good, dude.

[Dynasty DeLorean]

2 yr extension for 36 mill with 27 mill guaranteed.

Takes the wind out of the Pickens sails at least for the next 3 years.

I think the path is still there for Pickens long-term. It probably hurts Claypool the most, but the Steelers have always been pretty good at managing multiple talented WRs together.

They needed to keep Johnson. It'll be interesting to see how much Pickett funnels to him. BB used Johnson as a safety blanket because he was the closest thing to AB.

I personally don't understand the drumbeat around Pickens being an elite talent that is assured to overtake Claypool.

Dude is a knucklehead and needs to improve at the catch point and in the intermediate areas of the field.. but he's a monster size/speed specimen with rare fluidity for his size and had a very strong rookie season.

Meanwhile everyone is ignoring the fact that Pickens was chosen in the late 2nd round and was taken behind guys like Wandale Robinson, John Metchie and Tyquan Thornton.. and while everyone likes to bring up that Watson has never had a 1,000 yard season Pickens hasn't even sniffed that total never getting close to the 727 yards he posted as a freshman.

He has some alluring traits and he could certainly develop into a player but at this point in time I'd be surprised if he overtook Claypool in the near future.

Finally someone talking some sense. Claypool has had a great start to his career by any measure and people want to bury him because they weren’t high on him coming out of college.

[Sriracha]

In any case, he's a very big unknown at this point and I don't see Pickens as the type of talent that assures he's kicked down the depth chart.

Well, that's just where we'll have to disagree. Pickens upside to me is tremendous, and I see him and Diontae as the future of this team at WR. So do the Steelers, speaking strictly by the state of the current contracts in that room.

Regarding Skyy Moore, I'm also holding reservations on him. There's been a lot of hype on him this off-season.. but there's also been hype for literally every WR on the roster from Justin Watson to MVS to Juju to Mecole Hardman.

I don't think he's a lock to emerge as the WR1 on that roster...

At the risk of getting off topic here, let's just say that by certain metrics, it's easy to see what made Skyy Moore such an obvious pick for the Chiefs in Round 2.

The fact that by all reports he's been shredding whilst working alongside perhaps the most gifted QB in the league in camp thus far should really come as no surprise to those that put stock in such data. (I know I do)

I don't think he'll ever be Tyreek Hill, but he doesn't have to be to make an impact for the Chiefs. He profiles as a dirty work king, and I expect he's going to fill that role extremely successfully for years to come in KC.

Oh, I agree there are reasons to be optimistic about both.. but I also recognize that WRs are very difficult to project into the NFL. Even the greatest of prospects can fail and these guys are far removed from that ilk. Plenty of good prospects have been showered with training camp hype only to fade into the ether.

I also don't see what the Pickens contract says about how the Steelers feel about his long term prognosis. Both him and Claypool are still on their rookie contracts and both were taken in the 2nd round.

I think you're right about us veering this thread off-course so let's just agree to disagree at this point

[ericanadian]

I think the Steelers draft acumen at drafting receivers is wildly overrated.

Jeez, I'd hate to hear what you have to say about the Eagles...

They've found AB, Mike Wallace, Juju, Diontae, Emmanuel Sanders... Claypool, even Martavis flashed talent... without ever spending higher than a 2nd.

That's pretty good, dude.

It’s volume. Draft enough receivers on day 1/2 and have Big Ben throw to them and you’ll get some success stories.

2010 - 2019, their day 1/2 picks were Diontae, Washington, Wheaton, Sanders, Juju, Bryant, & Coates.

Diontae and Sanders are clear wins and you can give them a bonus point for day three AB. Sanders didn’t actually break out until he left for Denver after the same GM that drafted him let him walk, but I’m still counting it.

Juju has one huge year and a bunch of mediocrity in his five seasons and was just let walk. Is that success? Claypool looks good, but we’re running on the assumption he’s about to be passed by the amazing Pickens, so not sure I can give points for a guy that’s about to lose his job.

Bryant, Washington, Wheaton, Coates and Bryant are all fails to me. Bryant may have flashed, but he was a huge red flag on character and that’s what brought him down.

That 3/8 with a TBD. Dig back for Wallace? I’ll refer you to Limas Sweed. They’re batting around 50%, which is good. I’m just not sure it’s great or any kind of assurance you’re getting a great player because the Steelers drafted him.

[Sriracha]

I think the Steelers draft acumen at drafting receivers is wildly overrated.

Jeez, I'd hate to hear what you have to say about the Eagles...

They've found AB, Mike Wallace, Juju, Diontae, Emmanuel Sanders... Claypool, even Martavis flashed talent... without ever spending higher than a 2nd.

That's pretty good, dude.

It’s volume. Draft enough receivers on day 1/2 and have Big Ben throw to them and you’ll get some success stories.

2010 - 2019, their day 1/2 picks were Diontae, Washington, Wheaton, Sanders, Juju, Bryant, & Coates.

Diontae and Sanders are clear wins and you can give them a bonus point for day three AB. Sanders didn’t actually break out until he left for Denver after the same GM that drafted him let him walk, but I’m still counting it.

Juju has one huge year and a bunch of mediocrity in his five seasons and was just let walk. Is that success? Claypool looks good, but we’re running on the assumption he’s about to be passed by the amazing Pickens, so not sure I can give points for a guy that’s about to lose his job.

Bryant, Washington, Wheaton, Coates and Bryant are all fails to me. Bryant may have flashed, but he was a huge red flag on character and that’s what brought him down.

That 3/8 with a TBD. Dig back for Wallace? I’ll refer you to Limas Sweed. They’re batting around 50%, which is good. I’m just not sure it’s great or any kind of assurance you’re getting a great player because the Steelers drafted him.

This is a seldom brought up point.

They're still elite at finding WR talent which is probably why they're comfortable allocating so much of their draft capital towards the position.

The most underrated WR drafting team is probably the Packers. Over the past couple decades they have been absolute money in the 2nd round with their only miss being Terrence Murphy who had his career cut short from spinal stenosis.

[Ice]

When it comes to the Steelers we should all agree that A Brown was the best by far under the Big Ben era. So let's compare Diontae year 2 & 3 to A Brown year 2 & 3. I would compare all 3 but Diontae was vastly superior to AB in their respective rookie years.

YR 2-3 Comparison
AB 29 games started 230 targets 135 receptions 1895 yards 7 TD's.
DJ 27 games started 313 targets 195 receptions 2081 yards 8 TD's.

Most of us play PPR leagues which helps Diontae even more but it is pretty easy to see why the Steelers paid these two do it all WR's.

Diontae is really good which is why he is their highest paid WR ever. He is just getting started.

[mild]

It’s volume. Draft enough receivers on day 1/2 and have Big Ben throw to them and you’ll get some success stories.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Kobe Bryant

Your typo proves my point. Day2/3. Kevin Colbert has -never- used a Day 1 pick on a WR. His first draft, he literally found Antonio Brown in the 6th round. Put some respect on that name, fella.

Find me a team that wouldn't willingly swap places for the Kevin Colbert WR drafting experience. They are lauded as the gold standard in league circles for a dang reason.

"Overrated." That's hilarious.

[Csl312]

The most underrated WR drafting team is probably the Packers. Over the past couple decades they have been absolute money in the 2nd round with their only miss being Terrence Murphy who had his career cut short from spinal stenosis.

This is true - except in 20 yrs they have only drafted 5 Rd 2 wrs. Cobb was good but not great. Jennings, Nelson and Adams all very good. If you add Rd 3 then you get James Jones and Amari Rodgers (so not terribly inspiring). It's not so good after that. I guess having had two HoF QBs they did have to throw to someone all that time. Maybe this bodes well for Watson though?

On topic: Diontae is a great WR, but I do wonder if it's possible to sustain high level statistical production with the Qb situation where it's at right now. Hopefully by the end of his extension he's continued to prove his value and can sign one more big contract.

[ericanadian]

It’s volume. Draft enough receivers on day 1/2 and have Big Ben throw to them and you’ll get some success stories.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Kobe Bryant

Your typo proves my point. Day2/3. Kevin Colbert has -never- used a Day 1 pick on a WR. His first draft, he literally found Antonio Brown in the 6th round. Put some respect on that name, fella.

Find me a team that wouldn't willingly swap places for the Kevin Colbert WR drafting experience. They are lauded as the gold standard in league circles for a dang reason.

"Overrated." That's hilarious.

Not even the best wide receiver drafting team in their own division. How about them Bengals? John Ross is a dud, but Tyler Boyd, Tee Higgins, Ja’Marr Chase & Mohammed Sanu with a bonus point for Marvin Jones stacks up pretty well.