Is Jameis Winston a Starting QB

[mild]

Oh - and for Pete’s sake lighten up. Geez.

Lighten up? You made a joke where the punchline was abusing someones sister. Christ.

Go make that joke over on facebook or some sh**. You don't need to show your @ss on a public forum.

[mild]

FF was over the top in his dislike. Winston has showed well in the preseason. Why not give him another chance to succeed in a QB friendly system. The post seemed overly dismissive.

He's entitled to his opinion, and generally has one. One that's sometimes even worth hearing!

Wouldn't you rather hear him defend it, rather than just making some boomer-era frat-bro joke? I know I would.

[FantasyFreak]

Taysom Hill doesn't deserve to be a starting QB in the NFL. Good on Payton for not getting too cute here. Jameis could actually be something in that offense.

Neither does Winston IMO. Won be default, almost. Both guys aren't going to cut it. Winston isn't good, and Hill is a glorified RB. Saints are finally going to come back down to earth after having the luxury of a HOFer for 2 decades.

Wow. You really are over the edge in dislike of Winston. Did your sister give him an uber ride or something?

Hill isn't much competition. The reality is, Winston hasn't had a one really good season in 5 years as a starter, and has consistently shown to make poor decisions that lead to turnovers. I'll believe it when I see it, but I don't think he's a good player. I've watched him for 5 years, and I can't imagine wanting that guy as my teams QB. You are mistaking my assessment of a player for hate. He's not good, IMO, and beating out Taysom Hill doesn't mean he suddenly is. As for the sister thing, I'm not bothered by it, it seemed to be in jest.

[FantasyFreak]

Taysom Hill doesn't deserve to be a starting QB in the NFL. Good on Payton for not getting too cute here. Jameis could actually be something in that offense.

Neither does Winston IMO. Won be default, almost. Both guys aren't going to cut it. Winston isn't good, and Hill is a glorified RB. Saints are finally going to come back down to earth after having the luxury of a HOFer for 2 decades.

I think you're as down on him as I am (cautiously) optimistic about him. I think everything's lined up for him- chance to learn from Brees/Payton last year, eye surgery, playing for Payton this year. I don't care about the surgery much at all, but if he really capitalized on his opportunity to learn from Brees the way he said he did, this'll be a rocket ship.

Yeah, as I said to BB, I've watched the guy plenty, and I just think he's wired a certain way, and that is going to inevitably lead to turnovers. He will make some awesome throws, but I've seen it for 5 years, so at this point, I need to see it before I believe it. I don't think Payton is some genius who can change the makeup of a human being. He has a good system, but right now the receiving corps is limited, and I am just not sold on Winston as a good starting QB in the NFL. I just have my doubts he'll ever have the consistency needed to be a franchise QB at this point.

[khaos337]

Neither does Winston IMO. Won be default, almost. Both guys aren't going to cut it. Winston isn't good, and Hill is a glorified RB. Saints are finally going to come back down to earth after having the luxury of a HOFer for 2 decades.

Wow. You really are over the edge in dislike of Winston. Did your sister give him an uber ride or something?

A great example of what I really dislike about this forum.

This was a reasonable discussion about one of the perennial fantasy juggernaut teams in the Saints, and whether they might still be able to still make a little noise this year with Jameis.

This post does absolutely nothing to further anything constructive. Quit being a moron.

Agree, but I did get a chuckle out of it

[khaos337]

I think you're as down on him as I am (cautiously) optimistic about him. I think everything's lined up for him- chance to learn from Brees/Payton last year, eye surgery, playing for Payton this year. I don't care about the surgery much at all, but if he really capitalized on his opportunity to learn from Brees the way he said he did, this'll be a rocket ship.

I’m with you. He has great potential in my opinion. As long as he doesn’t do any knucklehead type of stuff off the field and doesn’t get too cocky.

He absolutely has a great situation to succeed. That said, he's a knucklehead. The eye surgery thing is laughable...if that was the reason he sucked it makes him even more of a knucklehead.

Plus taysom will still be there doing taysom things, which will somewhat limit Winston in red zone packages.

I agree, he definitely deserves another look to succeed. I'm rooting for him. If you listen to him speak in interviews he says all the right things and it doesn't sound like lip service.

[Valhalla]

[FantasyFreak]

Wow. You really are over the edge in dislike of Winston. Did your sister give him an uber ride or something?

A great example of what I really dislike about this forum.

This was a reasonable discussion about one of the perennial fantasy juggernaut teams in the Saints, and whether they might still be able to still make a little noise this year with Jameis.

This post does absolutely nothing to further anything constructive. Quit being a moron.

FF was over the top in his dislike. Winston has showed well in the preseason. Why not give him another chance to succeed in a QB friendly system. The post seemed overly dismissive.

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. One of the best QB's to ever lace them up. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

[StripesOfKC]

A great example of what I really dislike about this forum.

This was a reasonable discussion about one of the perennial fantasy juggernaut teams in the Saints, and whether they might still be able to still make a little noise this year with Jameis.

This post does absolutely nothing to further anything constructive. Quit being a moron.

FF was over the top in his dislike. Winston has showed well in the preseason. Why not give him another chance to succeed in a QB friendly system. The post seemed overly dismissive.

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

[FantasyFreak]

FF was over the top in his dislike. Winston has showed well in the preseason. Why not give him another chance to succeed in a QB friendly system. The post seemed overly dismissive.

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

I guess my question is, what about the system makes it better for a QB? I mean, Taysom had a system created just for his skill set, it really wasn't the same thing Winston will be running. Some plays, sure, but certainly not all of it.

Teddy faired well, but he also had the luxury of MT at the time, as well as Jared Cook at TE, whereas Winston won't have any proven receiving talent. I guess I just don't know how much it's the system, and how much is the talent in the system, is what I am getting at. Payton hasn't really had to deal with his current situation before, so it's a lot of projection.

[Valhalla]

FF was over the top in his dislike. Winston has showed well in the preseason. Why not give him another chance to succeed in a QB friendly system. The post seemed overly dismissive.

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

Bridgewater has performed decently through his career.

Is Payton one of the best offensive coaches, or was it the HOF QB? I guess we’ll find out.

[j4pac]

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

Is Payton one of the best offensive coaches, or was it the HOF QB?

Yes

[ArrylT]

FF was over the top in his dislike. Winston has showed well in the preseason. Why not give him another chance to succeed in a QB friendly system. The post seemed overly dismissive.

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

That is a very good point. There is always a mental aspect of the game. And being around a winning culture & a consistent organization is a positive. Apart from a few players, the majority of players are going to have their success determined partially by their surroundings. We've seen that with Aaron Rodgers - as talented as he may be he cannot win it on his own. To the point that he's gotten frustrated with the organization and takes some of their decisions persoanlly. Maybe Jameis Winston is always going to be more like Brett Favre than Tom Brady / Peyton Manning and have a gunslinger mentality. However Favre did get a change of scenery very early in his career. Dont forget that (a) the Atlanta HC didnt want Favre and (b) the Packers GM overruled the team doctors (Favre had a condition similar to Bo Jackson).

Point is he went from a lousy situation to a better situation and that alone probably had a positive effect. Those of you who lived in a home or were in a situation where a sizable portion of the people did not like or want you and then you went somewhere where everyone believed in you. No doubt you know what I am talking about. We'll never know what would have happened if Favre had remained a Falcon - but I would not be surprised if he would have flamed out. This was a guy who was not great at making smart choices.

Winston has gone from being cast-out to possibly being reborn and in an environment that is friendly and positive towards successful QB play. The Saints took a previous former unwanted and somewhat unproven QB and turned a moribund franchise into a Super Bowl champion and repeated playoff contender. Now they have a chance to do it all over again. Winning begets winning. Teams had the chance to acquire Winston, they passed. Teams had the chance to draft Mac Jones ahead of the Patriots, they passed.

Winstons workout videos are a source of amusement and entertainment to many. But what they are also is proof that he wants it bad, that he'll do whatever it takes to succeed regardless of what others think. This is someone who likely now has a chip on his shoulder and a drive to succeed even greater than he originally had. That is not a guarantee he's going to be a stud (well he'll likely be a fantasy stud regardless). But a QB with talent, proven production and in a situation where he's learned & worked to win the starting role. Sometimes is a good idea to bet the obvious odds rather than dig in our heels.

We can poo-poo Taysom Hill but many Saints fans know that Sean Payton WANTED Taysom Hill.

https://whodatdish.com/2021/08/25/saint ... l-qb-race/

The fact that Jameis Winston won against both Hill and an uphill battle and his past demons. Oh and his team is happy for him too.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status ... 0376577025

In the end we talk about red flags and green flags. There have been pretty constant green flags for Winston all off-season. Nothing is written in stone but the direction we're going in is currently leading to a successful Winston season.

[FantasyFreak]

As I said to others, I've watched the guy play boneheaded football for 5 years. I just think he's a poor decision maker, and am not convinced it's fixable. He's had 5 years of average to poor QB play. It's not a huge accomplishment to beat out Taysom Hill. Honest question. How many current starters would lose a camp battle to Taysom Hill right now? How many backups would also beat him out? Mariota, and a few others, perhaps? So Winston winning the job simply doesn't change my view on the 5 years of football I've seen him play.

Generally curious what makes it more QB friendly than other systems? Payton has had Brees and only Brees for 15 years. Why is the NO's system more QB friendly than say, the Jets, or Bills, or Raiders, or Cowboys etc.?

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

"Point is he went from a lousy situation to a better situation..."

Winston has gone from being cast-out to possibly being reborn and in an environment that is friendly and positive towards successful QB play. The Saints took a previous former unwanted and somewhat unproven QB and turned a moribund franchise into a Super Bowl champion and repeated playoff contender.

This is someone who likely now has a chip on his shoulder and a drive to succeed even greater than he originally had. That is not a guarantee he's going to be a stud (well he'll likely be a fantasy stud regardless). But a QB with talent, proven production and in a situation where he's learned & worked to win the starting role. Sometimes is a good idea to bet the obvious odds rather than dig in our heels.

First off, Winston doesn't have Evans or Godwin. Hill will be in there for packages, and some will be down by the goal line. The idea that no matter what Winston will be a Fantasy Stud is far from a given. With his WR options, I don't see QB1 stats in his likely range of outcomes.

Secondly, Winston went from such a lousy situation, with Godwin and Evans etc. and a really good D to a better one? The Bucs situation was so terrible that team won the SB the year after he left. The idea it was some bad situation to me just doesn't wash. Winston had plenty of opportunities and reasons to succeed in TB, he just didn't play well enough. He wasn't being held back by ineptitude all around him. To me, betting on the odds, as you say, is going on 5 years of tape on the guy, showing he isn't a very good NFL QB who is prone to turnovers and bad decision making. Maybe he's turned over a new leaf, but "feel good articles" and a few pre-season throws vs the Jags aren't enough to get me to change my mind on the guy. If I'm wrong, it's totally fine, I will accept that, I just won't believe it until I see it.

[ArrylT]

Bridgewater stepped in and did decently well. Taysom Hill came in last year and still they kept winning. Not to mention Sean Payton being one of the best offensive coaches

I don't think Winston is very good or that he will be fixed but if it happens it's more likely in NO than on the Jets or Cowboys I'd say

"Point is he went from a lousy situation to a better situation..."

Winston has gone from being cast-out to possibly being reborn and in an environment that is friendly and positive towards successful QB play. The Saints took a previous former unwanted and somewhat unproven QB and turned a moribund franchise into a Super Bowl champion and repeated playoff contender.

This is someone who likely now has a chip on his shoulder and a drive to succeed even greater than he originally had. That is not a guarantee he's going to be a stud (well he'll likely be a fantasy stud regardless). But a QB with talent, proven production and in a situation where he's learned & worked to win the starting role. Sometimes is a good idea to bet the obvious odds rather than dig in our heels.

First off, Winston doesn't have Evans or Godwin. Hill will be in there for packages, and some will be down by the goal line. The idea that no matter what Winston will be a Fantasy Stud is far from a given. With his WR options, I don't see QB1 stats in his likely range of outcomes.

Secondly, Winston went from such a lousy situation, with Godwin and Evans etc. and a really good D to a better one? The Bucs situation was so terrible that team won the SB the year after he left. The idea it was some bad situation to me just doesn't wash. Winston had plenty of opportunities and reasons to succeed in TB, he just didn't play well enough. He wasn't being held back by ineptitude all around him. To me, betting on the odds, as you say, is going on 5 years of tape on the guy, showing he isn't a very good NFL QB who is prone to turnovers and bad decision making. Maybe he's turned over a new leaf, but "feel good articles" and a few pre-season throws vs the Jags aren't enough to get me to change my mind on the guy. If I'm wrong, it's totally fine, I will accept that, I just won't believe it until I see it.

You obviously did not correctly interpret my post and have already made your own decision - which is your choice. Let me know when you've actually read my post properly because what you are responding to is not what I was talking about so it is pointless to respond.