Michael Thomas Thread: Still a WR1?

[Rondalebaby]

It’s probably as simple as him wanting to try let his body heal naturally.

[Shoreline Steamers]

He could have had that surgery much sooner so he could have been ready for preseason. I have yet to hear a legit a reason why he waited this long.

Have you heard of athletes electing to try and heal an injury through rest and rehab exercises? Yes, he could have had surgery sooner, but some athletes prefer to take the former route rather than going under the knife. Obviously this is the route Thomas chose to take, and it didn't work out for him. Thus, surgery in June.

That's the "legit" reason. You may not like or agree with his decision. You may wish to ascribe other motives/reasons for this chain of events, but it's really pretty simple.

[Ice]

He could have had that surgery much sooner so he could have been ready for preseason. I have yet to hear a legit a reason why he waited this long.

Have you heard of athletes electing to try and heal an injury through rest and rehab exercises? Yes, he could have had surgery sooner, but some athletes prefer to take the former route rather than going under the knife. Obviously this is the route Thomas chose to take, and it didn't work out for him. Thus, surgery in June.

That's the "legit" reason. You may not like or agree with his decision. You may wish to ascribe other motives/reasons for this chain of events, but it's really pretty simple.

I have been in the Medical field for well over 30 years and I have heard pretty much all the reasons. I actually ran a rehab company for 6 years. The thing about PT and OT work is rehab is monitored several times a week with isokinetic equipment like Kin Com devices as an example along with a whole host of dynamic testing to see progress or lack there of.

Not disputing any of what you say but you don't know anymore than I that what you say are his choices or the reasoning behind those choices. There is a significant time gap in the decision process if the goal was to be ready for the season.

You could very well be 100% correct but consider the other factors. Surgery delayed; no work outs, no training camp, season start in serious question; enough to put on the shelf for multiple weeks if not longer.

Maybe it is as simple as it didn't work but then again sounds like you are buying his story 100%. I am not at this point based on what I know about rehab and my take is he will be traded by next July.

Regardless his situation will be interesting to follow in the coming months.

[Shoreline Steamers]

I have been in the Medical field for well over 30 years and I have heard pretty much all the reasons. I actually ran a rehab company for 6 years. The thing about PT and OT work is rehab is monitored several times a week with isokinetic equipment like Kin Com devices as an example along with a whole host of dynamic testing to see progress or lack there of.

Not disputing any of what you say but you don't know anymore than I that what you say are his choices or the reasoning behind those choices. There is a significant time gap in the decision process if the goal was to be ready for the season.

You could very well be 100% correct but consider the other factors. Surgery delayed; no work outs, no training camp, season start in serious question; enough to put on the shelf for multiple weeks if not longer.

Maybe it is as simple as it didn't work but then again sounds like you are buying his story 100%. I am not at this point based on what I know about rehab and my take is he will be traded by next July.

Regardless his situation will be interesting to follow in the coming months.

Very interesting information and take on the situation. And I surely don't have any insider info on why Thomas approached things the way he did. I do buy his explanation, as it seems plausible, and I didn't doubt his dedication or desire because of his choice to play injured in 2020. To me that seems like a player that loves what they do and shows a desire to compete.

It is also possible that he's no longer happy with the Saints, But again, who knows? There was the dust-up that got him fined (but not suspended) in 2020, but that seems to be more about an issue with an individual player. Article by Mike Florio:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... el-thomas/

They purposely fined him, but didn't suspend him so as not to void any guarantees in his contract.

It's also true that Thomas could be traded, and maybe the way he handled this injury has the club a little frustrated with him. From Sportrac, this is what they had to say about Thomas if he was moved next year:

POTENTIAL OUT: 2022, 3 YR, $45,448,043; $22,707,500 DEAD CAP

Still seems like a lot of money to eat against the cap, but who knows? The Saints may need to hit the reset button anyway if things go sideways for the club in 2021. And next year will be his age 29 season.

[osubuckeyeman]

I'm not sure if it was a deltoid ligament injury but that is what I have been reading. If that is the case I think there is a strong chance he hurt it during rehab. An injury to the deltoid almost always needs surgery to repair. If the doctor he went to after the season which was most likely an orthopedic doctor had noticed an injury to the deltoid then one would have to think surgery would have been highly recommended. He could have been rehabbing the nagging high ankle sprain when the deltoid was injured. Deltoid injuries are no joke and almost always result in surgery. At least that is what an orthopedic surgeon told me.

[Shoreline Steamers]

I'm not sure if it was a deltoid ligament injury but that is what I have been reading. If that is the case I think there is a strong chance he hurt it during rehab. An injury to the deltoid almost always needs surgery to repair. If the doctor he went to after the season which was most likely an orthopedic doctor had noticed an injury to the deltoid then one would have to think surgery would have been highly recommended. He could have been rehabbing the nagging high ankle sprain when the deltoid was injured. Deltoid injuries are no joke and almost always result in surgery. At least that is what an orthopedic surgeon told me.

Did you happen to get his opinion about how this type of injury affects athletes moving forward osubuckeyman? Just curious if he shared any insight on how this could potentially affect Thomas when he returns to play.

[FantasyFreak]

His career arc is trending in the OBJ direction, sadly.

[Ice]

His career arc is trending in the OBJ direction, sadly.

Agree.

It's pretty obvious Sean Payton is really upset with Thomas for delaying his obvious need for surgery. Don't see this ending well.

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/2021/07 ... onference/

[remedy29]

It baffles me that an organization can have an athlete on contract for multi millions of dollars, yet the player can decide on how or when he chooses to rehab or get surgery.
Certainly a player should have the right to approve surgery, etc., but it seems pretty clear to me that the player should be held liable for a breach in contract if his choices differ from the teams, specially if it causes missed games.

Same for performance enhancing drugs. If a team signs a player based on a certain level of performance, then later that performance was found to only be achieved through illegal performance enhancing drugs, the player should be held to a breach in contract. This is much more severe in baseball.

[FantasyFreak]

It baffles me that an organization can have an athlete on contract for multi millions of dollars, yet the player can decide on how or when he chooses to rehab or get surgery.
Certainly a player should have the right to approve surgery, etc., but it seems pretty clear to me that the player should be held liable for a breach in contract if his choices differ from the teams, specially if it causes missed games.

Same for performance enhancing drugs. If a team signs a player based on a certain level of performance, then later that performance was found to only be achieved through illegal performance enhancing drugs, the player should be held to a breach in contract. This is much more severe in baseball.

Can't say I disagree.

[Ice]

It baffles me that an organization can have an athlete on contract for multi millions of dollars, yet the player can decide on how or when he chooses to rehab or get surgery.
Certainly a player should have the right to approve surgery, etc., but it seems pretty clear to me that the player should be held liable for a breach in contract if his choices differ from the teams, specially if it causes missed games.

Same for performance enhancing drugs. If a team signs a player based on a certain level of performance, then later that performance was found to only be achieved through illegal performance enhancing drugs, the player should be held to a breach in contract. This is much more severe in baseball.

Can't say I disagree.

Yea it sounds good but.......

HIPPA laws are quite restrictive and for good reason. Of course with this Pandemic the government may stretch that law as to who is really in charge of your personal health so the unintended consequences may someday give ownership more rights beyond what is negotiated in a contract. I kind of doubt it though at this point.

[OhCruelestRanter]

Let’s break it down.

Yea it sounds good but.......

HIPPA laws are quite restrictive and for good reason.

1. It’s HIPAA. It stands for the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. “HIPPA” is a fictional law that makes it illegal for anybody to ask you anything about your health. Here’s a helpful chart:

Of course with this Pandemic the government may stretch that law as to who is really in charge of your personal health so the unintended consequences may someday give ownership more rights beyond what is negotiated in a contract. I kind of doubt it though at this point.

2. That’s not what HIPAA is/does. HIPAA, (among other things like regulating the availability of group health plans and coverage for when people change jobs, standardizing the amount of money that can be saved in pre-tax medical saving accounts, specifying coverage re: pre-existing coverage, and regulating certain aspects of life insurance policies,) prevents your healthcare providers from sharing your health information with people not involved in your care.

HIPAA is not what protects “who is really in charge of your personal health” and the government could not stretch HIPAA to “someday give ownership more rights beyond what is negotiated in a contract.” The idea that HIPAA would allow the government to allow NFL teams to force their players to get certain types of treatment is abject nonsense.

The only kernel of truth to be gleaned from this incoherent rambling is that when somebody says that they are

in the Medical field

what they mean is “I am not a physician.”

[Valhalla]

Let’s break it down.

Yea it sounds good but.......

HIPPA laws are quite restrictive and for good reason.

1. It’s HIPAA. It stands for the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. “HIPPA” is a fictional law that makes it illegal for anybody to ask you anything about your health. Here’s a helpful chart:

Of course with this Pandemic the government may stretch that law as to who is really in charge of your personal health so the unintended consequences may someday give ownership more rights beyond what is negotiated in a contract. I kind of doubt it though at this point.

2. That’s not what HIPAA is/does. HIPAA, (among other things like regulating the availability of group health plans and coverage for when people change jobs, standardizing the amount of money that can be saved in pre-tax medical saving accounts, specifying coverage re: pre-existing coverage, and regulating certain aspects of life insurance policies,) prevents your healthcare providers from sharing your health information with people not involved in your care.

HIPAA is not what protects “who is really in charge of your personal health” and the government could not stretch HIPAA to “someday give ownership more rights beyond what is negotiated in a contract.” The idea that HIPAA would allow the government to allow NFL teams to force their players to get certain types of treatment is abject nonsense.

The only kernel of truth to be gleaned from this incoherent rambling is that when somebody says that they are

in the Medical field

what they mean is “I am not a physician.”

You’re not wrong, but you could be a touch more humble in your approach

[Ice]

Actually.....

The ridiculousness of the Troll's post is amazing.

The point was employers have to protect the privacy of our health records.

As an example, when Dak refuses to disclose whether or not he has had the Vaccine; The Cowboys organization cannot disclose this information to the public regardless of who in the organization knows the actual facts.

No doubt the law is complex but if anyone is really interested in a summary of the HIPPA privacy rule, the Link is below.

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files ... ummary.pdf

[OhCruelestRanter]

Actually.....

The ridiculousness of the Troll's post is amazing.

The point was employers have to protect the privacy of our health records.

Wrong. The point of the law is that healthcare providers have to protect the privacy of health records. It’s remarkable how confidently and aggressively wrong you are about this. Especially, since, you know, you’re “in the medical field.”

From the HHS:

The Privacy Rule, as well as all the Administrative Simplification rules, apply to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and to any health care provider who transmits health information in electronic form in connection with transactions for which the Secretary of HHS has adopted standards under HIPAA (the “covered entities”)

As an example, when Dak refuses to disclose whether or not he has had the Vaccine; The Cowboys organization cannot disclose this information to the public regardless of who in organization knows the actual facts.

Wrong. Again. Employers disclose health information all the time. For instance- the Raiders just disclosed that every coach on staff is vaccinated.

The example you would be looking for is if the Cowboys want to find out if Dak is vaccinated, he won’t tell them, so they ask his doctor. HIPAA prevents his doctor from disclosing that information.

The same thing applies to Michael Thomas, just not in the completely insane way that you suggested. While HIPAA has nothing to do with the Saints being able to force Thomas to get surgery, (which again, was a completely crazy suggestion) it does prevent Thomas’ surgeon from sharing details of the surgery to the Saints without Thomas’ consent.

No doubt the law is complex but if anyone is really interested in a pertaining section the Link is below.

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files ... ummary.pdf

The law is complex because it includes multiple clauses, but the privacy clause that you’re referencing is really straight forward. Literally everything I just had to correct is in the HHS link you sent me. I can’t imagine that you actually read that and came to the completely, demonstrably wrong conclusion that you did. It’s like you’re taking an open book test and filling in all of the exact wrong answers, and you’re doing it with such wild, unearned confidence.

Just be wrong, dude. It’s okay to say “whoops, I was wrong,” rather than running headlong into a losing argument over and over.

Or, you know, you can call me names again and say some more demonstrably incorrect stuff, and then I’ll explain to everybody why you’re wrong, again. I’ll have a great time either way, I promise.