Diontae Johnson is...... maybe really really good?

[tresskid84]

Some general comps on Average Depth of target (adot) and yards per route run (yprr):

Diontae Johnson: adot-7.60 yards; yprr-1.70
Keenan Allen: adot-7.33; yprr-1.91
Cooper Kupp: adot-6.38; yprr-1.94
Robert Woods: adot-6.71; yprr-1.72
Cole Beasley: adot-7.98; yprr-2.20
Hunter Renfrow: adot-7.22; yprr-1.91

The two guys he is closest too are Robert Woods and Curtis Samuel (adot-6.59, yprr-1.63). The volume is the biggest story for Diontae here, and I'm sorry, even if/when JuJu goes, the volume will never increase from what it is now, and will likely decrease as Claypool gets more experience. Doesn't mean he won't be a 15-16 pt a game scorer like a Woods and be very valuable, but he's NOT a 20 pt scorer a game long term like an Adams or Hopkins.

[Ice]

You sure the real issue is no matter how pretty the route or fast the feet a receiver ultimately has to actually catch the ball? I wont say Bens blameless or outright deny any validity to your arguments its not all Johnson. Still giving him a pass for simply not catching the ball? Lets hope he gets out of his head and figures it out.

People have punished players here for drops before and it never becomes a long-term issue: Mike Evans, Odell Beckham, Amari Cooper, DaVante Adams. Hell, even Breshad Perriman has mostly fixed his drop issues.

He's a second year WR with room to get better and drops are a very fixable thing. His routes look really good, which is much harder to teach. Again, I'm buying if there are people who think he can't fix his drops. He may not become an elite player, but if I can get him affordably to my be my WR3 or Flex play, then I'll consider that fantastic.

He's already getting an absurd amount of targets, and JuJu might leave on top of it.

You are removing context. Simply disputing "Ben is the real issue". Johnson has a bad case of dropsies this year trufacts. Not saying panic and dump him just saying the issues start with the player. I am confident it is fixable. I am less confident Johnson is the WR to own over Claypool but he is worth annoying for sure.

Yes I am sure the real issue is Big Ben's desire to get rid of the ball so fast. Ben is about done as a NFL QB. He may play another year or two but that is about it if he even plays next season.

Way too much concern with drops IMO. Yes Johnson has issues in this department but a a lot of WR's drop the ball too much. Watching Johnson it is obviously not hand technique. He is taking his eyes off the ball a bit early looking for running lanes. That is correctable. DK drops at a higher percentage is my guess and he is the probably this highest upside WR in football.

Depth of target and yards per reception have a tremendous amount to do with the QB. Ben gets rid of the ball much faster than any QB in the NFL. We can blame arm talent these days or O line but the offensive philosophy is centered on snap to throw well under 2.5 seconds on average and this is affecting WR yardage stats. Players can't really get deeper catches for longer yards when the release time is well below 2 seconds on a high percentage of throws.

[Yarnith]

This is a Godwin/Evans type scenario. Claypool and Diontae have significantly different skillsets and can coexist on most NFL teams. Hes getting 12 targets a game for a reason, despite playing with juju and claypool.

I agree they can produce but if you were able to trade for either which way do you jump? I assume Juju ends up playing slot in NE or an offensive clone of them next year. Washington seems destined to be option 3 forever. So is Johnson or Claypool the Pitt WR you keep/roster? Right now its hard to say but I lean to Claypool.

[yinzername]

^as to that, both should be rostered in any league. I would certainly try to trade either before I cut any...

[CGW]

This is a Godwin/Evans type scenario. Claypool and Diontae have significantly different skillsets and can coexist on most NFL teams. Hes getting 12 targets a game for a reason, despite playing with juju and claypool.

I agree they can produce but if you were able to trade for either which way do you jump? I assume Juju ends up playing slot in NE or an offensive clone of them next year. Washington seems destined to be option 3 forever. So is Johnson or Claypool the Pitt WR you keep/roster? Right now its hard to say but I lean to Claypool.

If I could only have one? Toss a coin. If I could get one of them cheaper than the other, that's what I'd be doing. Both have promising futures. But as I said, they compliment each other and the Steelers have been supportive of multiple WR as long as I've been playing fantasy football.

[Ice]

I am taking Johnson easily as the WR to own on this team for fantasy.

The last 8 weeks he has ranked 9th with a very consistent per game average of 18.012 PPG, His best games over that stretch was 23 twice and 21 twice. His terrible game was 8.00.

That is remarkably consistent fantasy gold. To put it in perspective those are marginally better numbers than D. Hopkins.

Obviously not in the same overall class but Johnson is a plug in and forget fantasy starter on every team.

I get some being high on Claypool but after 4 straight single digit games he ranks 48th in points per game the last 8 games at 11.4 per game. Only 1 game (21.3) in the last 8 better than Johnson's average.

I do like Claypool's upside but he not as versatile a player.

Johnson has had 27 targets the last 2 games and in the last 8 only one game of single digit targets (7).

96 Targets in his last 8 games is incredible. Fantasy players should take note and buy this player if possible in all leagues. Focus on his drops if it helps but buy off those, don't sell off those.

[tresskid84]

2 more drops and only 14 yards after the catch on his 14 targets.

I'm selling where I have him/have sold high based on this year's fantasy scoring. He's a very good wr, but this fantasy scoring (20pts a game ppr) and target volume isn't going to sustain long term. He's more Robert Woods than Nuk, which is to say hes a VERY GOOD wr, but the hype train is going too far. His target numbers will never be this high again, imo, even when JuJu leaves after this year.

[Ice]

2 more drops and only 14 yards after the catch on his 14 targets.

I'm selling where I have him/have sold high based on this year's fantasy scoring. He's a very good wr, but this fantasy scoring (20pts a game ppr) and target volume isn't going to sustain long term. He's more Robert Woods than Nuk, which is to say hes a VERY GOOD wr, but the hype train is going too far. His target numbers will never be this high again, imo, even when JuJu leaves after this year.

All easy to say but what return do you expect when you sell.

His value is or should be high. It’s certainly not a knock to compare him to Woods. What fantasy player wouldn’t want him?

[Sriracha]

2 more drops and only 14 yards after the catch on his 14 targets.

I'm selling where I have him/have sold high based on this year's fantasy scoring. He's a very good wr, but this fantasy scoring (20pts a game ppr) and target volume isn't going to sustain long term. He's more Robert Woods than Nuk, which is to say hes a VERY GOOD wr, but the hype train is going too far. His target numbers will never be this high again, imo, even when JuJu leaves after this year.

All easy to say but what return do you expect when you sell.

His value is or should be high. It’s certainly not a knock to compare him to Woods. What fantasy player wouldn’t want him?

Yea, it's weird to use these comps to say that Diontae's a sell. I don't see him valued anywhere near Hopkins and he's several years younger.

Robert Woods is a very productive WR who would be highly valued if he wasn't going on 29 years old.

And we haven't even seen the best of Diontae yet. He's still improving and some of his low YPRR can be explained by some bad drops and suspect QB play in recent months. Every WR is struggling in the YPRR department: Claypool 1.93, Juju 1.24, Washington 1.38

[tresskid84]

My whole point is i keep seeing the elite label being thrown around him, and he's not close to the hopkins, adams, etc level in terms of talent level. The robert woods comp for me was really in reference to where his max value ever got, combined with reference to talent level, which was low 40s, maybe high 30s, overall in non-sf. His ceiling going forward is much more likely in the 14-16 range, which i agree, is great and worth having. But people keep talking as if he is scoring 20 a game now and its only going to go up as he gets somehow even more targets without juju, and that's the part ya lose me. So ive sold him, or am looking to trade him, in the 20s to 30s overall value range, and im very happy with it.

Also, hes not THAT young, he will be 25 next year, so statistically, hes already the age of a typical scoring prime for a wr (granted, at the lower end of that prime).

The funniest part of all this is i actually loved him coming out, and still think hes a very good wr without a doubt, but now feel like im somehow his biggest critic by not seeing an elite wr, like being Robert woods level is a travesty, lol.

[cantguardjake]

Diontae Johnson’s volume is really really good.

[CGW]

My whole point is i keep seeing the elite label being thrown around him, and he's not close to the hopkins, adams, etc level in terms of talent level. The robert woods comp for me was really in reference to where his max value ever got, combined with reference to talent level, which was low 40s, maybe high 30s, overall in non-sf. His ceiling going forward is much more likely in the 14-16 range, which i agree, is great and worth having. But people keep talking as if he is scoring 20 a game now and its only going to go up as he gets somehow even more targets without juju, and that's the part ya lose me. So ive sold him, or am looking to trade him, in the 20s to 30s overall value range, and im very happy with it.

Also, hes not THAT young, he will be 25 next year, so statistically, hes already the age of a typical scoring prime for a wr (granted, at the lower end of that prime).

The funniest part of all this is i actually loved him coming out, and still think hes a very good wr without a doubt, but now feel like im somehow his biggest critic by not seeing an elite wr, like being Robert woods level is a travesty, lol.

I'm not sure I've seen many say he is elite. I've seen many (myself included) say he has elite separation and after the catch skills. Hes also getting elite volume because he is BY FAR the best route runner on the steelers. Countless times I've mentioned hes nowhere near the athlete Claypool is, but being a wide receiver in the NFL doesn't always come down to pure althetism. This will be a fun week to see how these guys do with Mason Rudolph under center. Maybe a preview of the future if Pittsburgh cant figure out its succession plan.

[Sriracha]

This will be a fun week to see how these guys do with Mason Rudolph under center. Maybe a preview of the future if Pittsburgh cant figure out its succession plan.

If Mason Rudolph is the succession plan the Steelers GM needs to be fired... yesterday

[joeday]

Very nervous about an early season deal that had me sending Diontae for Deebo...lots of regret at this point.

[DLF3000]

Diontae Johnson’s volume is really really good.

Best post in this thread!