Are you Buying/Selling Sam Darnold - Traded to Carolina

[Ice]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

[Yarnith]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

He has also had the offensive masterminds of Todd Bowles and Adam Gase developing him. I'd buy him for a cheap stash if they hired a good coach or he left the team for someplace promising.

[Ice]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

He has also had the offensive masterminds of Todd Bowles and Adam Gase developing him. I'd buy him for a cheap stash if they hired a good coach or he left the team for someplace promising.

Makes ZERO difference to me. He didn't rise above in any category. I get he is trying and has been putting in off season work but he reads defenses too slow and bad decisions are obvious.

He could develop into average given he is below average in all categories but even then, going from average to elite is all together different.

Buy him from the scap heap and start him if you like early round rookie draft picks.

[stoneghost28]

Darnold has beaten 2 playoff caliber teams this year with far less than Carson has ever had. Who has Carson Wentz beaten this year? If I was a GM out there I would 100% take Darnold over Carson right now. 3 years younger, much more coachable, much less jaded. What kind of QB whines about being on the bench 5 days after THE TEAM won their biggest game of the year? Sam Darnold responds to all of the “tank for Trevor” talk not by whining or talking about leaving NYC if they draft a QB, but by winning 2 huge games. Give me Darnold. He lets his play do the talking.

Wentz played at an MVP level and has been a Top-10 QB for multiple years. Darnold has never been anything more than average at best at random points during the season.

You can't base it squarely on this season, because it ignores how good Wentz has actually been and why he got the contract in the first place. Darnold may be able to turn it around with a change of scenery, but we've just never seen him play at a franchise QB level. We've seen Wentz do that already.

I bought into the December '18 rookie year finish. His rookie season was solid, not bad, not good, just solid, but his rookie finish in '18 was superb. After missing most of November he came back and finished his final four games:
80/125 for 931 and 6 TD's and 1 pick.

It's cherry picking, and I can't remember the exact number, but that offseason I believe he was like a top 5 or top 8 QB in December. I could be wrong, I can't remember that well, but I do believe the OL he had back then was semi-competent, and he had a healthy Enunwa, Robby Anderson, Elijah McGuire doing RB 25-40 type things, and Chris Herndon in his one healthy, non suspended season. Competent WR's, TE's, RB's, and a solid OL, and he produced a pretty good rookie season and outstanding final month.

Then they fired a good coach in Bowles, hired the NFL's worst HC of the past decade in Case, to <snort laugh> help guide Darnold into becoming a Franchise QB while divesting him of OL, WR and RB help. It remains utterly perplexing, what the Colts did through the accidental stupidity of a horse manure GM for Andrew Luck the Jets seemed to do deliberately, letting RB fall into total disrepair, letting their OL strength fade away, and letting WR's go while bringing in a nice slot guy and a rookie who was hurt for the all important start of a largely training camp-less 2020.

Darnold stunk in 2019 and 2020, but can't help but wonder how different his career might have been if he hadn't landed on the Jets or if the Jets hadn't canned Bowles for a total incompetent? We'll never know. I do happen to think that Darnold's a nice investment which is why I overpaid for him in '19 and '20 which feels incredibly stupid now. I'll be buying again this summer, and have actually stealth picked him up in leagues where I didn't get Hurts this offseason on the cheap because if Darnold is traded to a legit team, I can see him being a bottom end QB 1 or solid bench QB2. There's a reason why probably half of the teams in the NFL had him as the QB1 in '18. This is also why I felt that Trevor Lawrence should go back to school or pull an Eli/Elway if the Jets drafted him this offseason, and why Fields should do the same unless the Jags addressed the OL in the offseason. While probably a nice large chunk of QB prospects fail in this league because of the massive chasm between success as a college QB and NFL QB, it's hard to argue against the idea that a reasonable fraction of the failures can be directly traces to incompetent organizations drafting and developing them. Whether it's the coaches, failing to provide them with OL's, or everything in-between and all of the above, there are many, many QB's over the years that might have had totally different careers if they'd lucked into what infuriated Rodgers for instance in 2005. No matter how angry he is, he never seems to spend any time talking about what a godsend it was to not be drafted by an organization the fell apart after Walsh II ended, and was lead by a ghastly coaching staff in '05 compared to landing with a Packers team that would largely be borderline playoff caliber or better nearly every year between '94 and the present. For QB's, having the OL, having surrounding talent, and having a good organization and coaching staff is just as important as the talent they take with them to their situation. Now Lawrence gets DJ Chark, Laviska Shenault, Josh Oliver, Collin Johnson, James Robinson etc instead of Mims, Crowder and a bunch of nothing. if I'm Lawrence, that sounds a helluvalot better than what it looked like a week and a half ago.

My heavy investing in Chark/Shenault in 2019 and 2020 seems to have some sneaky value as well at this point.

Going back to the original topic though, as I said earlier, I think Darnolds worth going after if you can get him at an excessive discount. Where could he be going? Seems like the most QB needy teams going forward fall into two types of teams:
1.Teams w/elite QB's aging out
2. Teams w/nothing at QB or just ready to move on this year or the next.

1. Looks like Pittsburgh, Atlanta, Detroit (who apparently are ready to trade Stafford?), Indianapolis, New Orleans, Tampa Bay,
2. New England, Denver, Oakland (not sure what they're doing), Dallas (if they don't resign Das), NYG (they'll waste another year on Jones), Washington, Chicago, Minnesota (probably one last year with Cousins), San Francisco

The one positive I can see for Darnold is that as he avoids pulling an ARob (spending his entire career w/terrible support), he has numerous options that look attractive in terms of supporting casts if not always top organizations in place to run the teams. Pretty much all of the teams in those lists have better supporting casts, organizations, and in many cases OL's than the Jets. Looking at that list (and I may have forgotten some teams, the only squads that look pretty weak in terms of talent/staff comparably speaking would be what, New England, and Chicago. I could add my WFT, but they do have Gibson and McLaurin and a veteran staff maximizing the minimal talent they have in terms of the offense/QB beyond Gibson and McLaurin. It is absolutely astounding that a team starting Haskins career finale, Alex Smith's reanimated leg, and Kyle Allen's 1 act play still leads the division going into week 17, so if they could do that with that trio, what could they do with Darnold? Seems like quite a bit, especially if Dallas or NYG pips them for the division and their draft pick slotting jumps around 9 or 10 slots as a result.

[stoneghost28]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization, bottom 3 in the NFL his entire NFL career, bottom 2-3 coaching staff since they fired Bowles after his rookie year, and bottom 3-4 supporting cast for a QB in the league his final two seasons.

You're not looking at the nuance which is that nearly all quality QB's have elite supporting casts which explains a good chunk of the success and nearly all awful QB's have terrible supporting casts which certainly must play a role (as does terrible coaching which he also has).

All that being said, there's no evidence that Darnold could actually be good or great, he's never been other than the finale month of his rookie season which is a tiny sample size that can be excused away as mere randomness, but it does seem telling that the one stretch of his career where he wasn't awful was when he had two reasonable starting WR's in Enunwa and Robby Anderson, a legit TE in Herndon, and competent RB play and blocking upfront before the OL was let go piece by piece in the ensuing offseasons plus in Bowles he had a legit coach that year, as compared to laughing stock Case.

Still, '18 was solid, '19 and '20 were god awful at best, so definitely no evidence yet beyond what he did in college that he's any good.

I just think when you're digging around looking for QB's that might be better than advertised, you can see that Darnold dealt with exactly the same thing Tannehill did while he was a nothing '12-'18, and that was totally incompetent coaching, and awful offenses, heck they even had the same idiot coach in Gase though Tannehill can only blame him for '16-'18, and not '12-'15 (then again his coach in stage 1 sucked too).


It's a roll of the dice, no doubt, no proof, but I'd go after Darnold on the cheap in fantasy (especially superflex/2QB) and if my terrible redskins make the playoffs, Darnold will be one of the only potential solutions to the QB problems since they will have played themselves out of a trade up or at slot drafting of Lance/Wilson. My only concern as a Redskins/WFT fan w/Darnold as a booby prize is that his rookie deal is done soon, and it doesn't sound like the Jets would be willing to trade him at a commensurate discount acknowledging that fact. Unless I can get Darnold for a Day 3 pick, and an extension on the cheap, I have no interest as a real pro football team. 3 of his seasons are in the can, only 1+an extension are left. Not enough to justify paying much if you're a real team in terms of trade assets for him. You can always sign him as a FA in '22 or '23 if he shows anything or doesn't after all, and avoid giving up any comp of note. I wonder what the Jets are gonna be asking for? Ditto the Jags if they try to trade Minchew.

[Servo]

The Jets should absolutely move on from Darnold, time will tell if Fields, Wilson, Nance, etc are even good NFL QB's but Darnold appears serviceable at best and that isn't going to alter your franchise.

I think these types of guys should try to go the Tannehill route and go be a "back up" on a decent roster and maybe their luck changes.

[stoneghost28]

Drafting Fields is a no brainer, especially when you consider that he comes with a five year window to evaluate. W/Darnold they have 1 year left to evaluate, and the returns through 3 years are disappointing at best.

[Ice]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization,

Well I agree it is a horror show.

I thought he was massive reach when drafted. I evaluated him coming into the league as a major risk. He simply doesn't look to have the necessary skill sets to be a star in this league. Too many ignored the significant drop off in his game his last year of college. He threw way too many interceptions his last year. He was always suspect reading defenses. Nothing has changed.

[The MAC Machine]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization,

Well I agree it is a horror show.

I thought he was massive reach when drafted. I evaluated him coming into the league as a major risk. He simply doesn't look to have the necessary skill sets to be a star in this league. Too many ignored the significant drop off in his game his last year of college. He threw way too many interceptions his last year. He was always suspect reading defenses. Nothing has changed.

1st of all....to be a star and a productive fantasy QB are 2 completely different things. Let’s be very clear about that. Alex Smith was never a star. Hell, for the first 5 or so years people blamed the ineptitude of the 49ers on him. However, when the 49ers finally got their crap together look what happened. Won the NFC West and lost to the Super Bowl champion Giants. Furthermore, even when replaced by Kaepernick and he went to KC people still doubted him....and look how well he did there. 3 Pro Bowls.

Moving on....

Look at what Darnold just did....he took a HORRIBLE team and beat 2 much superior, playoff contending teams, that were actually competing for something. To overlook that in my eyes is foolish and self serving only to what you want to believe, especially considering all of the times we try to knock players based on who they played (should i really unearth this list?) ....Anyone who overlooks Darnolds potential because of his crappy situation and makes excuses for someone like Carson while looking just as crappy in his crappy situation, can kick rocks. Darnold came into the league at the barely legal age of 21, to start for an organization that has been crumbling around him ever since he touched an NFL field, and we are expecting him to walk on water and perform miracles - we dont expect that of any QB we respect, including Carson.

Its going to be so gratifying watching Darnold pull an Alex Smith on the haters if he goes to another team.

[remedy29]

Darnold is not a Franchise QB.

Case in point; He is now being compared to a player that has been benched who has had a similarly terrible season.

No telling what the Jets do since they are a historically bad team but; Based on the reality that he plays like a backup type QB the Jets would be foolish not to try again for a legitimate Franchise QB.

The NFL is a What have you done for me lately league..

Darnold as a starting QB:

13-24 Record
59.6% career completion percentage
44 TD's / 37 INT's, 7 Fumbles Lost
QB Rating 78.6
Y/A 6.6
Sack % 7.4

The Jets took a swing and missed. He is at or near the bottom this season in most categories including Yards per attempt, QB Rating and QBR. Those 3 stats alone are bench forever numbers as a legitimate starter given they rank 36,36, & 34th in the NFL.

We're like opposite sides of the same coin.

You see nothing but the horror show #'s.

I see nothing but the horror show organization,

Well I agree it is a horror show.

I thought he was massive reach when drafted. I evaluated him coming into the league as a major risk. He simply doesn't look to have the necessary skill sets to be a star in this league. Too many ignored the significant drop off in his game his last year of college. He threw way too many interceptions his last year. He was always suspect reading defenses. Nothing has changed.

How was Darnold a massive reach when many had him as the top QB in his draft class?
And if Darnold is a massive reach, how are any of this year's QBs not a massive reach, outside of Lawrence?

The Jets likely want to trade down, but I doubt any team will want to pay anything significant to trade up considering the QB prospect available and the fact that there are multiple QB prospects this year.

[TB3falcons]

I firmly expect the Jets to take a QB. Also believe Darnold will go to a new team with an open QB competition and be similar, but not nearly as good, as Tannehill. I think people are somehow underestimating Gase’s impact on the Jets.

[Kmani6]

I firmly expect the Jets to take a QB. Also believe Darnold will go to a new team with an open QB competition and be similar, but not nearly as good, as Tannehill. I think people are somehow underestimating Gase’s impact on the Jets.

Or underestimating him having had to deal with both a bottom 3 line and receiving weapons. There are only a handful of NFL QBs that could make something of his situation. Coaching and having the proper supporting cast go a long way in developing young QBs, and Darnold has received neither of these things. I can't imagine someone like Josh Allen would be the player he is today or develop nearly as much as he has over the last few years if he was drafted into the Jets situation. This is in no way my support of Darnold as a future franchise QB, but more an honest assessment of his situation. It will be really interesting to see him either run it back with the Jets or compete for a job on another team with more weapons (maybe the Broncos?).

[Cameron Giles]

I firmly expect the Jets to take a QB. Also believe Darnold will go to a new team with an open QB competition and be similar, but not nearly as good, as Tannehill. I think people are somehow underestimating Gase’s impact on the Jets.

Or underestimating him having had to deal with both a bottom 3 line and receiving weapons. There are only a handful of NFL QBs that could make something of his situation. Coaching and having the proper supporting cast go a long way in developing young QBs, and Darnold has received neither of these things. I can't imagine someone like Josh Allen would be the player he is today or develop nearly as much as he has over the last few years if he was drafted into the Jets situation. This is in no way my support of Darnold as a future franchise QB, but more an honest assessment of his situation. It will be really interesting to see him either run it back with the Jets or compete for a job on another team with more weapons (maybe the Broncos?).

You're right, but the question you have to ask is who's a better QB long-term with improved coaching, a better line (maybe?), and more weapons:

Justin Fields or Sam Darnold?

I'm taking Fields, who will also be on a five-year rookie contract.

[jman3134]

Yes, but what would a game changing O line weapon do for the run game and or whichever qb is there? I would go o-line.

[bjd5211]

Yes, but what would a game changing O line weapon do for the run game and or whichever qb is there? I would go o-line.

Joe Thomas made a huge difference for the Browns and all those playoff runs they made with him.