Travis Fulgham

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Cameron Giles
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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am

Jigga94 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:28 pm
CGW wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:34 am

In jest - Can I get that weekly Fulgham vs Evans trade update?
Man I wish I could get perrenial 1000 yard WR for a waiver wire pickup
The thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.

*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*

OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Shankopotamus » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:06 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am
Jigga94 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:28 pm
CGW wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:34 am

In jest - Can I get that weekly Fulgham vs Evans trade update?
Man I wish I could get perrenial 1000 yard WR for a waiver wire pickup
The thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.

*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*

OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.
Ha, Fulgham doing exactly what we thought he'd do when all of their weapons weren't dead.
12 Team Super-Flex Dynasty (2019 & 2020 Runner-Up) :wall:
1 QB, 3 RB, 4 WR, Flex, SF, 2 TE, IDP

QB- Jared Goff, Justin Herbert, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Andy Dalton, Jordan Love
RB- Aaron Jones, Nick Chubb, Cam Akers, Phillip Lindsey, James White, Kerryon Johnson, Gus Edwards, A.J. Dillon, Jamychal Hasty, Salvon Ahmed, Adrian Peterson
WR- Mike Evans, DJ Moore, Allen Robinson, Robert Woods, DK Metcalf, Hollywood Brown, Marvin Jones, Dante Pettis, Marquez Callaway
TE-Mark Andrews, Noah Fant, Hayden Hurst, Jace Sternberger, Donald Parham
DL-Chris Jones, Deforest Buckner, Jonathon Allen, Akeim Hicks, Montez Sweat
LB Zach Cunningham, Jayon Brown, Rashaan Evans, Devin White, Devin Bush, Troy Reeder
DB-John Johnson, Adrian Phillips, Taylor Rapp, Josh Jones, Jeremy Chinn, Ronnie Harrison
K-Younghoe Koo

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Sriracha » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:32 pm

Shankopotamus wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:06 am
Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am
Jigga94 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:28 pm


Man I wish I could get perrenial 1000 yard WR for a waiver wire pickup
The thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.

*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*

OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.
Ha, Fulgham doing exactly what we thought he'd do when all of their weapons weren't dead.
Tbf, he did get a 2nd as well.

And it’s not as if Evans is lighting the world on fire.

Also... can we stop these ridiculous takes calling Evans a HoFer? He’s very good, but let’s not get crazy here

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm

Sriracha wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:32 pm
Shankopotamus wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:06 am
Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am


The thought process of that trade is just....awful. I'm all for getting your guy, but it was such a big leap in logic and value.

*Evans has 2 meh games 6 years into his HOF-caliber career*

OH NO BETTER TRADE HIM FOR UDFA WHO'S BEEN GOOD IN HIS FIRST FEW GAMES.
Ha, Fulgham doing exactly what we thought he'd do when all of their weapons weren't dead.
Tbf, he did get a 2nd as well.

And it’s not as if Evans is lighting the world on fire.

Also... can we stop these ridiculous takes calling Evans a HoFer? He’s very good, but let’s not get crazy here
He has six straight seasons of 1000+ yards and his production to this point is only in the class of HOF caliber receivers. If he continues his pace, he'll certainly have an argument.

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Sriracha » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:55 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm
He has six straight seasons of 1000+ yards and his production to this point is only in the class of HOF caliber receivers. If he continues his pace, he'll certainly have an argument.
He's on pace for 818 yards.

He's 3rd on the target pecking order behind Godwin and Antonio Brown (who just got with the team).

Antonio Brown is a HoF caliber WR... Evans is solid, but is very clearly a tier below and his raw counting stats have been inflated by playing his entire career in a production friendly environment (Terrible defense + DGAF QB = an incredible amount of passing game script).

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Cameron Giles » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm

Sriracha wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:55 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:44 pm
He has six straight seasons of 1000+ yards and his production to this point is only in the class of HOF caliber receivers. If he continues his pace, he'll certainly have an argument.
He's on pace for 818 yards.

He's 3rd on the target pecking order behind Godwin and Antonio Brown (who just got with the team).

Antonio Brown is a HoF caliber WR... Evans is solid, but is very clearly a tier below and his raw counting stats have been inflated by playing his entire career in a production friendly environment (Terrible defense + DGAF QB = an incredible amount of passing game script).
What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. TB suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically. Negative game script doesn't create HOF WRs. Evans was a Top 10 pick after an excellent college career and immediately translated that as a pro.

I'm not arguing that Evans is a better WR than Brown historically. Marvin Harrison is a few tiers below Jerry Rice, but it doesn't mean Harrison is an undeserving HOFer for example.

If Evans continues the pace he's on, he will definitely have a shot at getting in. I'm not saying he's a lock, but he's been of caliber.

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby The Godwin Complex » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm

What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. [This Team] suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically.
Are we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT? :think:

Anyhow, onto Fulgham.....the man has caught 31/56 passes (55%) with 1 drop this season. Maybe we should blame the guy whose completion percentage is 58% (Carson Wentz). Fulgham has 12 targets in 2 games, tied with both Reagor and Goedert for the team lead in that span, followed by Ward at 10. This is the future. We just need better QB play.
2020 BOLD PREDICTIONS
James Robinson’s 2020 production in PPR will be comparable to or better than
Antonio Gibson, DeAndre Swift, and Cam Akers.
Are You Willing To Put Up or Shut Up?
Make Your Bold Prediction Here



12 TEAM SUPERFLEX PPR
START: QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 TE, 3 FLEX, 1 SUPERFLEX
ROSTER STARTERS
QB: B. Roethlisberger (PIT)
RB: N. Chubb (CLE), L. Fournette (TB)
WR: C. Godwin (TB), C. Sutton (DEN), J. Smith-Schuster (PIT),
TE: B. Jarwin (DAL), M. Alie-Cox (IND)
FLEX: J. Landry (CLE), D. Harris (NE), R. Cobb (HOU)
SUPERFLEX: Sam Darnold (NYJ)


BENCH:
QB: G. Minshew (JAX), J. Luton (Jax), M. Rudolph (PIT)
RB: R. Penny (SEA), S. Michel (NE), D. Dallas (SEA), K. Vaughn (TB), JJ Taylor (NE), J. Howard (MIA), J. Wilkins (IND), C. Patterson (CHI)
WR: T. Fulgham (PHI), G. Olszewski (NE), W. Snead (BAL), A. Tate (CIN), L. Fitzgerald (AZ),
TE: D. Asiasi (NE), D. Njoku (CLE), D. Keene (NE)

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Krypto_King » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm

What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. [This Team] suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically.
Are we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT? :think:
I, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookie

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby The Godwin Complex » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:37 pm

Krypto_King wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pm
The Godwin Complex wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:51 pm

What you bolded from my post remains a fact. Even if he has a down season, it won't be for lack of talent of ability. [This Team] suddenly has an embarrassment of riches and each WR is sacrificing statistically.
Are we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT? :think:
I, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookie
You mean the 3rd round rookie that is currently being spoken of as the second coming of AB? .....Nice downplay.

Box up your thinking anyway you like. The logic, with all things considered, speak to a selective truth. I think we would all agree that Pittsburgh also has an embarrassment of riches at WR currently (per usual). And to be 100% honest James Washington > Scottie Miller. No dynasty manager would trade Diontae, Claypool, Juju and Washington for AB, Evans, Godwin and Miller at this point in time. Not 1 person.

But to stay on topic when it comes to Evans vs Fulgham I just think it’s funny how if Brady spreads the ball around we can understand and acknowledge that it’s because his WR group is good. However, on that same note if Wentz, Big Ben, or some no name other PIT QB spreads the ball around, or makes bad decisions it’s an immediate indication that guys like Fulgham or Juju “aren’t good”. Its a joke. We have the capacity to understand that a QBs decisions/performance don’t completely reflect a WRs talent. However, it seems like time and time again people in this community selectively believe things in a vacuum only when it validates their narrative of a player. IE - Evans gets a pass because “he has performed before and I know he will bounce back”, but Juju and Fulgham underperform and they get faded without any real consideration of the full story? How’s that not dogma in action?
Last edited by The Godwin Complex on Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2020 BOLD PREDICTIONS
James Robinson’s 2020 production in PPR will be comparable to or better than
Antonio Gibson, DeAndre Swift, and Cam Akers.
Are You Willing To Put Up or Shut Up?
Make Your Bold Prediction Here



12 TEAM SUPERFLEX PPR
START: QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 TE, 3 FLEX, 1 SUPERFLEX
ROSTER STARTERS
QB: B. Roethlisberger (PIT)
RB: N. Chubb (CLE), L. Fournette (TB)
WR: C. Godwin (TB), C. Sutton (DEN), J. Smith-Schuster (PIT),
TE: B. Jarwin (DAL), M. Alie-Cox (IND)
FLEX: J. Landry (CLE), D. Harris (NE), R. Cobb (HOU)
SUPERFLEX: Sam Darnold (NYJ)


BENCH:
QB: G. Minshew (JAX), J. Luton (Jax), M. Rudolph (PIT)
RB: R. Penny (SEA), S. Michel (NE), D. Dallas (SEA), K. Vaughn (TB), JJ Taylor (NE), J. Howard (MIA), J. Wilkins (IND), C. Patterson (CHI)
WR: T. Fulgham (PHI), G. Olszewski (NE), W. Snead (BAL), A. Tate (CIN), L. Fitzgerald (AZ),
TE: D. Asiasi (NE), D. Njoku (CLE), D. Keene (NE)

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:10 am

The Godwin Complex wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:37 pm
Krypto_King wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pm
The Godwin Complex wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm


Are we talking about Mike Evans and TB, or Juju and PIT? :think:
I, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookie
You mean the 3rd round rookie that is currently being spoken of as the second coming of AB? .....Nice downplay.

Box up your thinking anyway you like. The logic, with all things considered, don’t speak to a selective truth. I think we would all agree that Pittsburgh also has an embarrassment of riches at WR currently (per usual). And to be 100% honest James Washington > Scottie Miller. No dynasty manager would trade Diontae, Claypool, Juju and Washington for AB, Evans, Godwin and Miller at this point in time. Not 1 person.

But to stay on topic when it comes to Evans vs Fulgham I just think it’s funny how if Brady spreads the ball around we can understand and acknowledge that it’s because his WR group is good. However, on that same note if Wentz, Big Ben, or some no name other PIT QB spreads the ball around, or makes bad decisions it’s an immediate indication that guys like Fulgham or Juju “aren’t good”. Its a joke. We have the capacity to understand that a QBs decisions/performance don’t completely reflect a WRs talent. However, it seems like time and time again people in this community selectively believe things in a vacuum only when it validates their narrative of a player. IE - Evans gets a pass because “he has performed before and I know he will bounce back”, but Juju and Fulgham underperform and they get faded without any real consideration of the full story? How’s that not dogma in action?
Why is that bad logic?

Evans was a Top-10 draft pick who went on to post 3 WR1 seasons. Overall, he has five seasons where he's finished as a Top-20 WR and 4 of those were Top-15. He has a proven record of elite production.

Fulgham is a 25-year-old UDFA WR. He's had some good games, but he has no floor to fall back on, nor does he have a ceiling to cling to. And I've actually liked what I've seen from him, but nobody really knows what his future is. Sure, he could stick in the NFL as a decent WR, but he could just as easily be fantasy irrelevant.

Considering that, trading Evans for Fulgham and a 2nd is awful, awful value because it took one person to value Evans as similar to an UDFA WR who had a few good games. I'm all for getting your guy, but there are certainly better ways to get Fulgham.

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby jman3134 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:05 am

6th round pick, but your point is valid. I like Fulgham and Evans. I think Evans is many tiers above but in a bad situation for fantasy production this year. Fulgham should have a role in the Eagles offense moving forward.

In terms of TB receivers vs Steelers, I would say TB receivers are arguably better now, just not for dynasty purposes because of the age gaps.
12 team, 35 man rosters, 1/2 PPR, 10 round rookie/FA draft
Qb: Baker Mayfield, Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford
Rb: Saquon Barkley, Austin Ekeler, Jonathan Taylor, Joe Mixon, Matt Breida, Cam Akers, Chase Edmonds, David Johnson, D'onta Foreman
Wr: DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Evans, Julio Jones, AJ Green, Laviska Shenault, Julian Edelman, Diontae Johnson, John Brown, Keelan Cole, Darnell Mooney, Jalen Guyton, Travis Fulgham, Jakobi Meyers, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Richie James, Cam Sims, Dezmon Patmon
Te: George Kittle, Darren Waller, Dan Arnold, Donald Parham
K: Jason Sanders
D: Baltimore Ravens
2021 picks:

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby The Godwin Complex » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:23 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:10 am
The Godwin Complex wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:37 pm
Krypto_King wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 pm


I, too, have nightmares about my guys having to compete for targets vs James Washington, Vance Mcdonald and a 3rd round rookie
You mean the 3rd round rookie that is currently being spoken of as the second coming of AB? .....Nice downplay.

Box up your thinking anyway you like. The logic, with all things considered, don’t speak to a selective truth. I think we would all agree that Pittsburgh also has an embarrassment of riches at WR currently (per usual). And to be 100% honest James Washington > Scottie Miller. No dynasty manager would trade Diontae, Claypool, Juju and Washington for AB, Evans, Godwin and Miller at this point in time. Not 1 person.

But to stay on topic when it comes to Evans vs Fulgham I just think it’s funny how if Brady spreads the ball around we can understand and acknowledge that it’s because his WR group is good. However, on that same note if Wentz, Big Ben, or some no name other PIT QB spreads the ball around, or makes bad decisions it’s an immediate indication that guys like Fulgham or Juju “aren’t good”. Its a joke. We have the capacity to understand that a QBs decisions/performance don’t completely reflect a WRs talent. However, it seems like time and time again people in this community selectively believe things in a vacuum only when it validates their narrative of a player. IE - Evans gets a pass because “he has performed before and I know he will bounce back”, but Juju and Fulgham underperform and they get faded without any real consideration of the full story? How’s that not dogma in action?
Why is that bad logic?

Evans was a Top-10 draft pick who went on to post 3 WR1 seasons. Overall, he has five seasons where he's finished as a Top-20 WR and 4 of those were Top-15. He has a proven record of elite production.

Fulgham is a 25-year-old UDFA WR. He's had some good games, but he has no floor to fall back on, nor does he have a ceiling to cling to. And I've actually liked what I've seen from him, but nobody really knows what his future is. Sure, he could stick in the NFL as a decent WR, but he could just as easily be fantasy irrelevant.

Considering that, trading Evans for Fulgham and a 2nd is awful, awful value because it took one person to value Evans as similar to an UDFA WR who had a few good games. I'm all for getting your guy, but there are certainly better ways to get Fulgham.
Its not good or bad logic. Its just selective and flawed to think that situations impacting a players performance is a negative for one player and not for another player.

For example...if Fulgham and Evans swapped teams and production the way we evaluated their situations and production would completely change. With Evans we would easily point out how he still led the Eagles in targets the last 2 games despite only 2 catches. We would point out how terribly inaccurate and inconsistent Carson has been all season. Evans would take less blame and be given more credit. On the flip side, we would argue the Fulgham is inconsistent because he is clearly the number 3 option in the offense. We would argue that once Chris Godwin came back he would take a back seat. Not only that, we would justify it. We would give Fulgham more blame and less credit. My point is not that Fulgham deserves the same consideration as Evans, but I am saying that the way we evaluate each situation is moreso based on our beliefs about the players than it is about the actual situation and the variables that factor into it.
2020 BOLD PREDICTIONS
James Robinson’s 2020 production in PPR will be comparable to or better than
Antonio Gibson, DeAndre Swift, and Cam Akers.
Are You Willing To Put Up or Shut Up?
Make Your Bold Prediction Here



12 TEAM SUPERFLEX PPR
START: QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 2 TE, 3 FLEX, 1 SUPERFLEX
ROSTER STARTERS
QB: B. Roethlisberger (PIT)
RB: N. Chubb (CLE), L. Fournette (TB)
WR: C. Godwin (TB), C. Sutton (DEN), J. Smith-Schuster (PIT),
TE: B. Jarwin (DAL), M. Alie-Cox (IND)
FLEX: J. Landry (CLE), D. Harris (NE), R. Cobb (HOU)
SUPERFLEX: Sam Darnold (NYJ)


BENCH:
QB: G. Minshew (JAX), J. Luton (Jax), M. Rudolph (PIT)
RB: R. Penny (SEA), S. Michel (NE), D. Dallas (SEA), K. Vaughn (TB), JJ Taylor (NE), J. Howard (MIA), J. Wilkins (IND), C. Patterson (CHI)
WR: T. Fulgham (PHI), G. Olszewski (NE), W. Snead (BAL), A. Tate (CIN), L. Fitzgerald (AZ),
TE: D. Asiasi (NE), D. Njoku (CLE), D. Keene (NE)

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:41 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:23 pm

Its not good or bad logic. Its just selective and flawed to think that situations impacting a players performance is a negative for one player and not for another player.

For example...if Fulgham and Evans swapped teams and production the way we evaluated their situations and production would completely change. With Evans we would easily point out how he still led the Eagles in targets the last 2 games despite only 2 catches. We would point out how terribly inaccurate and inconsistent Carson has been all season. Evans would take less blame and be given more credit. On the flip side, we would argue the Fulgham is inconsistent because he is clearly the number 3 option in the offense. We would argue that once Chris Godwin came back he would take a back seat. Not only that, we would justify it. We would give Fulgham more blame and less credit. My point is not that Fulgham deserves the same consideration as Evans, but I am saying that the way we evaluate each situation is moreso based on our beliefs about the players than it is about the actual situation and the variables that factor into it.
And that's because of results. Evans has proven his worth and value as a player and Fulgham has not. Evans is facing WR1 coverage each game with Godwin and Brown on the field. Fulgham is not.

Evans is struggling because he's on a loaded offense with a QB who's spreading the ball around. Fulgham is struggling lately because other players are getting healthier, cutting into his volume, and he doesn't have the stature or results of a player like Evans to unquestionably remain a priority. Not to mention, Wentz has been bad.

Of course we would judge it differently. There's no reason to look at it any other way. Fulgham may be decent, but nobody would be surprised if he's fantasy irrelevant going forward. He just hasn't proven enough to have any benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby jjleurquin » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:45 pm

The Godwin Complex wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:23 pm

Its not good or bad logic. Its just selective and flawed to think that situations impacting a players performance is a negative for one player and not for another player.

For example...if Fulgham and Evans swapped teams and production the way we evaluated their situations and production would completely change. With Evans we would easily point out how he still led the Eagles in targets the last 2 games despite only 2 catches. We would point out how terribly inaccurate and inconsistent Carson has been all season. Evans would take less blame and be given more credit. On the flip side, we would argue the Fulgham is inconsistent because he is clearly the number 3 option in the offense. We would argue that once Chris Godwin came back he would take a back seat. Not only that, we would justify it. We would give Fulgham more blame and less credit. My point is not that Fulgham deserves the same consideration as Evans, but I am saying that the way we evaluate each situation is moreso based on our beliefs about the players than it is about the actual situation and the variables that factor into it.
I think the variables are the exact reason people are less concerned about Evans than Fulgham. Evans didn't get his first real opportunity this season. He's has opportunity and produced every season. You don't have a HOF trajectory for the first 5 years and just become crap because you have a QB who prefers to throw it short when you succeed deep. For context is Evans was in Fulgham's situation I think it's safe to say the Eagles would lean heavily on him and he would put up better numbers than Fulgham. Fulgham looks good enough but he definitely wouldn't be able to play the role Evans does in Tampa, he's closer in talent to another Bucs WR Scotty Miller than he is to Evans.

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Re: Travis Fulgham

Postby dynastyninja » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:01 pm

jman3134 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:05 am
6th round pick, but your point is valid. I like Fulgham and Evans. I think Evans is many tiers above but in a bad situation for fantasy production this year. Fulgham should have a role in the Eagles offense moving forward.

In terms of TB receivers vs Steelers, I would say TB receivers are arguably better now, just not for dynasty purposes because of the age gaps.
I think TBs WRs are clearly better, which isn't a knock on PITs.


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