Travis Fulgham

[CGW]

The thing is, situation changes quickly. If you are fading Evans and hyping Fulgham it is entirely based on current situation. Fulgham is entering his physical prime as a WR, but Evans is squarely in his. Both have 3+ seasons of high level play left.

Evans signed a 5yr contract in 2018 worth 82.5m, 55m of which is guaranteed. Chris Godwin and Antonio Brown have no contracts for 2021+. If Brown does what many of you claim he will, it is likely the buccs can't afford all 3 next season. You can see how this situation could change quickly.

I'm also not even sure Evans has a much worse situation than Fulgham. Evans has a better offense, a better QB, more options to draw top coverage away. He's on pace for 730 yards and 13 TDs despite playing injurred almost the entire year so far. 5-7 targets would be plenty for him to be a high end wr2, back end wr1 despite his "slow" start.

Fulgham on the other hand has had the absolute perfect start to 2020. No competition and lots shoot outs or garbage time because Philly is awful. Competition will come to Philly. Reagor and goedert will be back this year sooner than later.

Listen I get it, I have him in 2 of my 3 leagues. I think he will be a useful fantasy asset. But he's not a worth a top 15 DYNASTY asset quite yet.

[The MAC Machine]

Fulgham just isn't the right "young guy" to buy. He's only two years younger and could very easily be without a role in a month.

I am on board with the age gap thing and the “right young guy” thing. That is understandable.

However,
in response to CGW and dynastyninja: The right question to ask here is what would we add to [class of 2020] Justin Jefferson, CeeDee Lamb, Raegor, and Tee Higgins for Mike Evans? How about [class of 2019] Diontae Johnson, Preston Williams, Debo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, and Darius Slayton? Knowing that WR production is a dime a dozen, and that this IS dynasty, depending on which of those names we are referring to (Jefferson(21)/McLaurin(25) vs Slayton (23)/Samuel(24)) I dont think many would add too much more than a single or a couple rookie picks for Mike Evans. Correct me if I’m wrong though....what else would we add to Fulgham besides a 2nd for Evans at this point in time?


I disagree with the bolded statement above. As an Eagles fan who hasn’t seen a WR this productive since TO, can you explain how a player who has produced like Fulgham could “easily” lose his role within a month? Keyword EASILY. What he has done on my Eagles hasnt been done in a long time so to say “he could easily be without a role” is highly questionable to me.

[ManuManu]

I’m an Eagles fan, and I wish to God someone would offer me Evans for Fulgham and a 2.

[hoos89]

Can we stop with the WR production is a dime a dozen nonsense by the way? Unless you're in like a 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 flex league or non-PPR, your league should be flexing a ton of WRs and replacement level production for WRs and RBs should be about the same. Top level RB production is higher true, but outside the top 6 or so RBs, RB and WR production is comparable and if your league has 3 starting WR spots and/or multiple flex spots (which I think is pretty common), strong WR production becomes harder to replace.

[CGW]

Can we stop with the WR production is a dime a dozen nonsense by the way? Unless you're in like a 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 flex league or non-PPR, your league should be flexing a ton of WRs and replacement level production for WRs and RBs should be about the same. Top level RB production is higher true, but outside the top 6 or so RBs, RB and WR production is comparable and if your league has 3 starting WR spots and/or multiple flex spots (which I think is pretty common), strong WR production becomes harder to replace.

I agree. This narrative is tired. Elite RB win championships and are incredibly valuable in comparison to WR due to scarcity, but there are no teams in any of my leagues that are strong competitors without strong WR cores. Most of leagues there isn't a single WR in the league that isn't on a roster. Most weeks 48-72 WR are being played in my 12 man leagues... I can't think of 48 receivers I want starting on my teams weekly.

[dynastyninja]

Can we stop with the WR production is a dime a dozen nonsense by the way? Unless you're in like a 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 flex league or non-PPR, your league should be flexing a ton of WRs and replacement level production for WRs and RBs should be about the same. Top level RB production is higher true, but outside the top 6 or so RBs, RB and WR production is comparable and if your league has 3 starting WR spots and/or multiple flex spots (which I think is pretty common), strong WR production becomes harder to replace.

I agree. This narrative is tired. Elite RB win championships and are incredibly valuable in comparison to WR due to scarcity, but there are no teams in any of my leagues that are strong competitors without strong WR cores. Most of leagues there isn't a single WR in the league that isn't on a roster. Most weeks 48-72 WR are being played in my 12 man leagues... I can't think of 48 receivers I want starting on my teams weekly.

I disagree. The narrative is in place for a reason. Replacement-level WRs are easier to find. Building a strong WR core is easier than a strong RB core.

[The MAC Machine]

Can we stop with the WR production is a dime a dozen nonsense by the way? Unless you're in like a 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 flex league or non-PPR, your league should be flexing a ton of WRs and replacement level production for WRs and RBs should be about the same. Top level RB production is higher true, but outside the top 6 or so RBs, RB and WR production is comparable and if your league has 3 starting WR spots and/or multiple flex spots (which I think is pretty common), strong WR production becomes harder to replace.

I agree. This narrative is tired. Elite RB win championships and are incredibly valuable in comparison to WR due to scarcity, but there are no teams in any of my leagues that are strong competitors without strong WR cores. Most of leagues there isn't a single WR in the league that isn't on a roster. Most weeks 48-72 WR are being played in my 12 man leagues... I can't think of 48 receivers I want starting on my teams weekly.

I disagree. The narrative is in place for a reason. Replacement-level WRs are easier to find. Building a strong WR core is easier than a strong RB core.

Ok, so now that you both disagree on that. Can we not side-step the question(s) I posed in response to both of you? (And everyone involved)

[CGW]

Fulgham just isn't the right "young guy" to buy. He's only two years younger and could very easily be without a role in a month.

I am on board with the age gap thing and the “right young guy” thing. That is understandable.

However,
in response to CGW and dynastyninja: The right question to ask here is what would we add to [class of 2020] Justin Jefferson, CeeDee Lamb, Raegor, and Tee Higgins for Mike Evans? How about [class of 2019] Diontae Johnson, Preston Williams, Debo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, and Darius Slayton? Knowing that WR production is a dime a dozen, and that this IS dynasty, depending on which of those names we are referring to (Jefferson(21)/McLaurin(25) vs Slayton (23)/Samuel(24)) I dont think many would add too much more than a single or a couple rookie picks for Mike Evans. Correct me if I’m wrong though....what else would we add to Fulgham besides a 2nd for Evans at this point in time?


I disagree with the bolded statement above. As an Eagles fan who hasn’t seen a WR this productive since TO, can you explain how a player who has produced like Fulgham could “easily” lose his role within a month? Keyword EASILY. What he has done on my Eagles hasnt been done in a long time so to say “he could easily be without a role” is highly questionable to me.

I didn't answer because there really isn't a question here. Those players have nothing to do with Fulgham or Evans. Every player has different values. Some you mentioned I would trade straight up for Evans, others I would need quite a bit more on top. The whole debate is trading Fulgham for Evans and why it would make sense.

To your second bolded point, I never said anything about Fulgham losing a job so I'll let someone else speak to that. I think he has done enough with his opportunity to stay involved going forward even once reagor and goedert are back. He will, however, lose at least a small amount of targets as wentz has other more reliable targets. Can't use that argument against Evans if you arent willing to accept it for Fulgham.

[The MAC Machine]

in response to CGW and dynastyninja: The right question to ask here is what would we add to ...........Fulgham besides a 2nd for Evans at this point in time?

I didn't answer because there really isn't a question here.

There is a question.....right there. The other names were brought into the conversation for greater context of how Mike Evans isnt as head and shoulders above the pack as its being represented here.

[hoos89]

Okay....why is "the right question" what we would add to a bunch of totally different players for Evans? I would not trade Jefferson or Lamb straight up for Evans. I'd want more than Deebo or Slayton for Evans. What does that have to do with Fulgham vs Evans? A lot of the players you listed are just way, way more valuable than Fulgham.

I disagree. The narrative is in place for a reason. Replacement-level WRs are easier to find. Building a strong WR core is easier than a strong RB core.

Because both RBs and WRs are played in flex slots in the vast majority of PPR leagues, above-replacement level WR production should be about as difficult to find as above-replacement level RB production. You only really need two significantly above replacement RBs in most leagues and generally more WRs will be started than RBs in a PPR league...so the fact that there are more above-replacement level WRs than RBs gets more or less canceled out in most PPR formats.

Again unless you're playing like 2 RB / 2 WR / 1 Flex or less than full PPR...I'm in a league that's 2 RB / 3 WR / 3 Flex and WRs are very difficult to come by in that format. People act like "WRs are a dime a dozen" is just a truism that applies in all formats, but scarcity is driven by format and I think in a lot of very common formats (possibly most formats) WR scarcity is real.

[CGW]

So you want a list of things I would add to Fulgham for Evans? The list is close to endless. But to make thing simple, it's more than a 2nd. To take my personal bias out, here's a few examples of DTC values from our MFL leagues of some random assets.

Evans 22.7
Fulgham 6.7
2nd 5.0
1st 19.3
Diontae 16.7
Jeudy 17.7
Aiyuk 17.0

[Patsfan86]

I cannot believe Fulgham Vs Evans is even being argued and im a pretty big Fulgham truther. I love what i see from him and think he is the future Wr2 there but my god Evans is WAAAAYYYYYY above him in value and real life skills that its not even close. Ive been seeing a lot of "redraft forum" comments lately and i gotta say im starting to agree with those comments. Dynasty is not redraft and for anyone to even be defending this trade is silly, it was a bad trade, it just is. We all make them, it happens but this one is bad. You can argue with me if you want but there really is nothing to argue, its bad. Move on.

As far as the other Wr Rb argument. Id say the top 10 Wrs are more valuable as a group then then top 10 Rbs. For instance, Josh Jacobs is near the bottom of Top 10, Kenny Golladay imo is also in that range id say. Is there really that much of a difference between the two? And in dynasty some are gonna take the Wr due to the longevity. On the other side of things looking more towards the top, is a guy like Dalvin Cook really worth that much more then DK Metcalf? Yes CMC Kamara are two guys most of us are gonna have over any WR but after that you can make a case to take many of these WRs over the RBs.

[Cameron Giles]

you guys are arguing Mike Evans vs a guy named after Chris Godwin... not worth it

The funny part is that Godwin's had a slow start as well and doesn't have the production history of Evans, but you're not going to see any one trade Godwin for Fulgham and a 2nd.

[bjd5211]

you guys are arguing Mike Evans vs a guy named after Chris Godwin... not worth it

The funny part is that Godwin's had a slow start as well and doesn't have the production history of Evans, but you're not going to see any one trade Godwin for Fulgham and a 2nd.

Turco is getting a little more subtle

[davidxhorn]

I cannot believe Fulgham Vs Evans is even being argued and im a pretty big Fulgham truther. I love what i see from him and think he is the future Wr2 there but my god Evans is WAAAAYYYYYY above him in value and real life skills that its not even close. Ive been seeing a lot of "redraft forum" comments lately and i gotta say im starting to agree with those comments. Dynasty is not redraft and for anyone to even be defending this trade is silly, it was a bad trade, it just is. We all make them, it happens but this one is bad. You can argue with me if you want but there really is nothing to argue, its bad. Move on.

As far as the other Wr Rb argument. Id say the top 10 Wrs are more valuable as a group then then top 10 Rbs. For instance, Josh Jacobs is near the bottom of Top 10, Kenny Golladay imo is also in that range id say. Is there really that much of a difference between the two? And in dynasty some are gonna take the Wr due to the longevity. On the other side of things looking more towards the top, is a guy like Dalvin Cook really worth that much more then DK Metcalf? Yes CMC Kamara are two guys most of us are gonna have over any WR but after that you can make a case to take many of these WRs over the RBs.

Depends on the league. Depends on the situation. If you're trying to win, this is similar to trading someone like Dobbins for Gurley. Horrible long term value, but puts you in a better spot this year. Someone else mentioned they wouldn't do Ceedee or JJ straight up for Evans. They are rookies. That is Evans' value. In my league, I couldn't get similar value. It has nothing to do with "redraft" or "dynasty". It has to do with holding value or realizing value. I could easily hold Evans and watch him lose value. If I like someone else, why not go after them? I have held Evans for years, and even when he is WR9 or whatever, he is WILDLY inconsistent. Another great example of this is OBJ. If you just watched the tape last year, you saw a lack of chemistry. You knew he had leg injury concerns. You held because "hE iS a ToP 5 DyNaStY AsSeT". Well, you're currently sitting on a plummeting asset because you were too "smart" to read the writing on the wall. I flipped him early last year for Ridley, a 1st, and a 3rd. Do I win all trades? No, no one does. But to "win" a trade, you have to take risks to get it done.