Antonio Gibson Rocket Ship - Round 2

[The MAC Machine]

Would you say that big run is a fluke, or was it an inevitably given his skillset?

The run was based on fantastic blocking. Literally anybody could have made that, but that's not his fault. Every RB has chunk plays. It should not be held against Gibson. Really seeing how the RB did requires careful watching by coaches, who know the play designs, figuring out how well he did or didn't do, to determine his level of involvement.

This is false. Yes the line opened a big hole, but Gibsons elite burst and speed made 2 defenders take bad angles. Put a slower and less explosive back that run goes for about 5-6 yards and hes tackled by #97. Is he ready for a full workload? Obviously not. But if anyone comes away not seeing how Gibson is easily the most talented player in that backfield is just fooling themselves with take lock. Every word from Washington is backed by action, Gibson is a very very good, albeit raw, talent. The best time to buy will be in a couple more weeks assuming he doesnt take one of those explosive plays to the house, or he doesnt get more involvement in the passing game (which is his calling card).

He needs space to be effective. He doesn’t have the vision or patience to see a hole in crowded space (between the tackles) and get 3-8 yards consistently. He is always going to search for open space outside of the tackles where is capable of breaking off larger runs. This is why he won’t be an every down back. You cannot get into a rhythm with him as a RB. He will run for minimal yardage until he breaks off a big one and that is not sustainable in the NFL. Boom or bust WRs are bad enough....boom or bust RBs are worse.

[FantasyFreak]

The run was based on fantastic blocking. Literally anybody could have made that, but that's not his fault. Every RB has chunk plays. It should not be held against Gibson. Really seeing how the RB did requires careful watching by coaches, who know the play designs, figuring out how well he did or didn't do, to determine his level of involvement.

This is false. Yes the line opened a big hole, but Gibsons elite burst and speed made 2 defenders take bad angles. Put a slower and less explosive back that run goes for about 5-6 yards and hes tackled by #97. Is he ready for a full workload? Obviously not. But if anyone comes away not seeing how Gibson is easily the most talented player in that backfield is just fooling themselves with take lock. Every word from Washington is backed by action, Gibson is a very very good, albeit raw, talent. The best time to buy will be in a couple more weeks assuming he doesnt take one of those explosive plays to the house, or he doesnt get more involvement in the passing game (which is his calling card).

He needs space to be effective. He doesn’t have the vision or patience to see a hole in crowded space (between the tackles) and get 3-8 yards consistently. He is always going to search for open space outside of the tackles where is capable of breaking off larger runs. This is why he won’t be an every down back. You cannot get into a rhythm with him as a RB. He will run for minimal yardage until he breaks off a big one and that is not sustainable in the NFL. Boom or bust WRs are bad enough....boom or bust RBs are worse.

Most likely not. As I stated earlier in the thread, he could be a bigger version of Percy Harvin. That can be very effective. As long as he doesn't start getting migraines.

[Bot101]

That doesnt conflict with what I said. Yes the hole was big, yes anyone except Trent Richardson could hit it. My point was Gibson has elite burst and speed which caused 2 defenders to take bad angles, #97 being one of them.

[PR0v3]

The run was based on fantastic blocking. Literally anybody could have made that, but that's not his fault. Every RB has chunk plays. It should not be held against Gibson. Really seeing how the RB did requires careful watching by coaches, who know the play designs, figuring out how well he did or didn't do, to determine his level of involvement.

I believe you're selling Gibson a bit short on that play. It was a fast closing crease and he had a nice cutback. Possible that the much less athletic Peyton Barber is tackled behind the line of scrimmage on that play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zm3VATTCA

0:32 is the play you're referring to

Looks good to me. Shedding arm tackles with ease, looks like a freight train when he’s up to speed, burst to make it around the edge, smooth and natural receiving on the swings. Looks like he’ll be getting worked in more and more as the season progresses.

[FantasyFreak]

The run was based on fantastic blocking. Literally anybody could have made that, but that's not his fault. Every RB has chunk plays. It should not be held against Gibson. Really seeing how the RB did requires careful watching by coaches, who know the play designs, figuring out how well he did or didn't do, to determine his level of involvement.

I believe you're selling Gibson a bit short on that play. It was a fast closing crease and he had a nice cutback. Possible that the much less athletic Peyton Barber is tackled behind the line of scrimmage on that play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zm3VATTCA

0:32 is the play you're referring to

Looks good to me. Shedding arm tackles with ease, looks like a freight train when he’s up to speed, burst to make it around the edge, smooth and natural receiving on the swings. Looks like he’ll be getting worked in more and more as the season progresses.

He looked pretty good. Not on the GL carry, though. Showed some nice speed to the corner on a few runs. Nice little move in open space to shake a 1 on 1 to gain a few yards on that swing pass. Honestly, once he got to the 2nd level of his biggest run of the day, he should have done better. He had McLaurin blocking nicely, and he ran into him. If he hits the outside when he gets to about the 38, he gains quite a few more yards. He waits just a little too long. He's indecisive about how to use the block, and runs into his own man. Reminds me a bit of Sanders, TBH. Great speed and movement, but doesn't set things up particularly well. This is just one play of, course.

https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/1 ... 0805789698

[PR0v3]

I believe you're selling Gibson a bit short on that play. It was a fast closing crease and he had a nice cutback. Possible that the much less athletic Peyton Barber is tackled behind the line of scrimmage on that play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zm3VATTCA

0:32 is the play you're referring to

Looks good to me. Shedding arm tackles with ease, looks like a freight train when he’s up to speed, burst to make it around the edge, smooth and natural receiving on the swings. Looks like he’ll be getting worked in more and more as the season progresses.

He looked pretty good. Not on the GL carry, though. Showed some nice speed to the corner on a few runs. Nice little move in open space to shake a 1 on 1 to gain a few yards on that swing pass. Honestly, once he got to the 2nd level of his biggest run of the day, he should have done better. He had McLaurin blocking nicely, and he ran into him. If he hits the outside when he gets to about the 38, he gains quite a few more yards. He waits just a little too long. He's indecisive about how to use the block, and runs into his own man. Reminds me a bit of Sanders, TBH. Great speed and movement, but doesn't set things up particularly well. This is just one play of, course.

https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/1 ... 0805789698

Yep, I agree. He should have gotten more out of that run. He does look to me though like he might have the ability to not get caught from behind. That’s a pretty rare skill to have if he has it, there are probably only about 10 RBs in the league with breakaway speed, and most are RB1s/high end 2s.

[FantasyFreak]

Looks good to me. Shedding arm tackles with ease, looks like a freight train when he’s up to speed, burst to make it around the edge, smooth and natural receiving on the swings. Looks like he’ll be getting worked in more and more as the season progresses.

He looked pretty good. Not on the GL carry, though. Showed some nice speed to the corner on a few runs. Nice little move in open space to shake a 1 on 1 to gain a few yards on that swing pass. Honestly, once he got to the 2nd level of his biggest run of the day, he should have done better. He had McLaurin blocking nicely, and he ran into him. If he hits the outside when he gets to about the 38, he gains quite a few more yards. He waits just a little too long. He's indecisive about how to use the block, and runs into his own man. Reminds me a bit of Sanders, TBH. Great speed and movement, but doesn't set things up particularly well. This is just one play of, course.

https://twitter.com/BenStandig/status/1 ... 0805789698

Yep, I agree. He should have gotten more out of that run. He does look to me though like he might have the ability to not get caught from behind. That’s a pretty rare skill to have if he has it, there are probably only about 10 RBs in the league with breakaway speed, and most are RB1s/high end 2s.

He does have breakaway speed, IMO. Of course those guys who have it that are RB1's high end RB 2's were RB's in colliege, too. I view Gibson as a version of Percy Harvin, just the other way round with the receiving and rushing type stuff. I don't think he's cut out for every down work, but I think he's a guy who can be an explosive playmaker, used in a variety of different ways. I think if they can get him 12-15 touches a week, they will keep him healthy, and maximize his skill sets. It's really tough to become a lead back at this stage. There is so much nuance that takes years, not weeks to learn. I think they need to add another back next year, if Love can't be the other guy in that backfield. Barber and McKissic ain't it.

PS. They should target Gibson on some choice routes this week. Simmons got destroyed on the weekend, despite playing only a few snaps. I would target him with Gibson any time he is on the field.

[Factory of Sadness]

Context. Context. Context. The Eagles D-line is nasty. Fletcher Cox is the best Defensive Tackle not named Aaron in the league and the whole line is a problem for any running game. Are we thinking Barkley sucks now because the Steelers ate the Giants alive in the run game?

If you want to be really wrong about running backs, really properly wrong, then watch a play on T.V. and as soon as a guy doesn't hit what looks like a hole, decide he has terrible vision. When the D-line has leverage, is flashing colour into the supposed gaps and nothing looks like it should, all backs look like they lack vision. If Gibson looks 'raw' against bad teams then that counts as information. That he didn't look 'polished' in this game counts as nothing.

[FantasyFreak]

Context. Context. Context. The Eagles D-line is nasty. Fletcher Cox is the best Defensive Tackle not named Aaron in the league and the whole line is a problem for any running game. Are we thinking Barkley sucks now because the Steelers ate the Giants alive in the run game?

If you want to be really wrong about running backs, really properly wrong, then watch a play on T.V. and as soon as a guy doesn't hit what looks like a hole, decide he has terrible vision. When the D-line has leverage, is flashing colour into the supposed gaps and nothing looks like it should, all backs look like they lack vision. If Gibson looks 'raw' against bad teams then that counts as information. That he didn't look 'polished' in this game counts as nothing.

The Eagles D Line is good, but was missing a starter, and lost another during the game. So 2 out of 4 were missing. It's not expected Gibson should be a nuanced runner, because he isn't. The lack of vision he displayed, or rather indecisiveness, on the comment I was actually making, was in the open field, not behind the line. It was 15 yards down the field. Nobody is saying he sucks, or that he didn't look good on certain plays. He is a work in progress. Trying to be objective with what I see, not just slobber all over the guy. He made some nice plays, created a few yards on his own, and left some yards on the field on other plays.

I realize another poster made comments about consistently getting 3-8 yards, and talked about vision, just giving my perspective from his touches this week. I think he can be a 15 touch a game guy, and be relevant for Fantasy at some point this year. I don't think he will be a lead NFL back. Not for any length of time, anyway. I don't think that would be his best function in an offense. I feel like that is a sticking point for some people who drafted him. Expecting some workhorse back who gets 300 plus touches isn't very realistic IMO. I don't think it was really the idea when drafts were happening in May, either. When Guice got cut, followed by AP, some people started thinking that, but it is still unlikely, IMO.

[The MAC Machine]

I think if they can get him 12-15 touches a week, they will keep him healthy, and maximize his skill sets.

So he is somewhere between Cordarelle Patterson and Reggie Bush at best. I bet my money that he lands on James White.

[Factory of Sadness]

Sorry FantasyFreak, I should have been clearer. I was responding to the post about vision, rather than your post. I do think this game told us next to nothing as the Eagles line was still pretty dominant - and Sweat might be as good as it gets as a back-up.

I'd be inclined to agree that he's unlikely to be a bell-cow, but how many of those are there right now? Zeke, McCaffrey, Barkley for sure. Maybe Jacobs, maybe Mixon? If he can be effective as a runner and make big plays in the passing game, that's a very valuable FF back. I don't feel like I have any clue yet about whether he'll be any good, but I do think that people making hard judgments about a running back's vision based on one game against the Eagles are making a mistake...

[FantasyFreak]

I think if they can get him 12-15 touches a week, they will keep him healthy, and maximize his skill sets.

So he is somewhere between Cordarelle Patterson and Reggie Bush at best. I bet my money that he lands on James White.

A more explosive James White would be fantastic for anyone who drafted him.

[FantasyFreak]

Sorry FantasyFreak, I should have been clearer. I was responding to the post about vision, rather than your post. I do think this game told us next to nothing as the Eagles line was still pretty dominant - and Sweat might be as good as it gets as a back-up.

I'd be inclined to agree that he's unlikely to be a bell-cow, but how many of those are there right now? Zeke, McCaffrey, Barkley for sure. Maybe Jacobs, maybe Mixon? If he can be effective as a runner and make big plays in the passing game, that's a very valuable FF back. I don't feel like I have any clue yet about whether he'll be any good, but I do think that people making hard judgments about a running back's vision based on one game against the Eagles are making a mistake...

I thought you might have been, it was just right after mine, so wasn't sure.

[The MAC Machine]

I think if they can get him 12-15 touches a week, they will keep him healthy, and maximize his skill sets.

So he is somewhere between Cordarelle Patterson and Reggie Bush at best. I bet my money that he lands on James White.

A more explosive James White would be fantastic for anyone who drafted him.

Ok, let’s get some facts straight....let’s numerically and statistically define and “more explosive James White”.

White has averaged about 6.5 yards per touch over the course of his career. That sounds great until you factor in his 7.7 touches per game.

Let’s say Gibson averages 7.7 yards per touch (Alvin Kamara numbers)...and then say he gets 9 touches per game on average.

That is still only 69 yards per game (total) average which barely puts him at 1000 total yards and this included very generous increases to realistic averages. Sorry, for the hype he is getting and the amount of value he is commanding that is not exciting.

[Ice]

He's drawn Christian McCaffrey comparisons, and people want that or expect to see that right away. Do we not remember how Christian McCaffrey began his career?

He ran the ball 117 times for 435 yards. Here are some of his rushing game logs from weeks 2 through week 8 his rookie year:

8 carries, 10 yards
4 carries, 16 yards
6 carries, 16 yards
3 carries, 7 yards
4 carries, 8 yards
7 carries, 10 yards

Obviously he caught 80 balls that year, but he wasn't someone that was coveted like he was today. He was the "small white RB" that can't run between the tackles. He put on weight following that season, and the rest is history.

I'm not saying Gibson is going to be the next CMC, but you literally can't write him off after 1 game or take away his 20 yard run. This is a guy still learning his position, and his opportunities should only grow as the season goes on given his talent and the sub-par talent in his RB room.

He doesn't have the top 10 pedigree like CMC, but he does have early round 3 draft capital tied to him and the offense kind of wants a player that is multiple. The thing to watch is his snap counts and whether he starts to pass block which he wasn't asked to do week 1. If he can't learn the football aspects of the position that aren't fantasy related, well then he will never be more than a tease.

He's an intriguing guy for sure that is worth monitoring. If you spent early-mid round 2 draft pick on him, there's really no reason to cut ties for a later 1st in my opinion, unless it's a SF league or a league that boosts the value of picks.

You really need to be more careful..... Logic is frowned on around here by a significant number of posters and many believe players don't actually get better.

I will say though, one the leagues I offered a 1st in was a SF but it is a pretty large league.