Antonio Gibson Rocket Ship - Round 2

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Sriracha » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:03 pm

Mjvb5 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:40 pm
murphysxm wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:18 pm Every year we have a polarizing rookie. Agressive owners pounce on him, risk adverse owners draft the value guy. Gibson is that guy in 2020. With my grey hairs and the experience that comes with that, value usually wins.
Yeah this is how I feel about it basically, we've seen something similar to this and sometimes they'll hit and hit BIG
See CMC, who was too small to play rn once upon a time
Welll... CMC was a mega producer in college, a top 10 pick despite lackluster athletic measurables, and he was too small to be a workhorse when he entered the league, he's packed on a lot of muscle since his rookie year. Completely different players and prospects.

There are a lot of parallels to players if you're just looking at where they're going in rookie drafts.. but I honestly am struggling to find a single success case with a player so devoid of volume throughout their entire collegiate careers. Maybe someone can help me out here?

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Mjvb5 » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:43 pm

IZigUZag wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Mjvb5 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:40 pm
murphysxm wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:18 pm Every year we have a polarizing rookie. Agressive owners pounce on him, risk adverse owners draft the value guy. Gibson is that guy in 2020. With my grey hairs and the experience that comes with that, value usually wins.
Yeah this is how I feel about it basically, we've seen something similar to this and sometimes they'll hit and hit BIG
See CMC, who was too small to play rn once upon a time
Welll... CMC was a mega producer in college, a top 10 pick despite lackluster athletic measurables, and he was too small to be a workhorse when he entered the league, he's packed on a lot of muscle since his rookie year. Completely different players and prospects.

There are a lot of parallels to players if you're just looking at where they're going in rookie drafts.. but I honestly am struggling to find a single success case with a player so devoid of volume throughout their entire collegiate careers. Maybe someone can help me out here?
Oh sorry I wasn't trying to draw an actual parallel between them as prospects more so that cmc is one of the main guys that was so divisive and controversial but did hit.

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Yarnith » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:48 pm

I honestly feel like he will be a explosive guy for that weak offense. I just cant see a path for it being in enough volume to make him break my lineup.
Cavaliers 12 team standard, 1QB, 1RB, 1WR, 2WR/TE, 1flex
QB: J. Allen, S. Howell, Z.Wilson
RB: A. Kamara, J. Taylor, CEH, K. Gainwell, P. Strong
WR: A.J. Brown, A. Cooper, J. Dotson, C. Ridley, E. Moore, W. Robinson, J. Meyers, T. Marshall,
TE: G. Kittle, J. Johnson, J. Woods, H. Henry
'23 1.10, 2.10, 3.10 '24 1, 2, 3
Recent Championships '19,'21,'22

Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends- 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flex
QB: Mahomes, Purdy, Lance
RB: Pierce, Miller, K. Herbert, E. Hull
WR: Chase, Watson, Davis, JSN, Metchie, Pierce, V. Jefferson, Claypool, Thornton, Westbrook-Ikhine
TE: Pitts, Woods, Latu

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Sriracha » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:56 pm

Mjvb5 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:43 pm
Oh sorry I wasn't trying to draw an actual parallel between them as prospects more so that cmc is one of the main guys that was so divisive and controversial but did hit.
:thumbup: I just don't see how this comparison is useful given how vastly different they are as prospects. Fantasy perception has no impact (at best, very little) on whether a player succeeds or doesn't succeed.

Plenty of divisive prospects have hit (Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Alvin Kamara, CMC, DK etc.) but none of them (that I can think of) were as grossly underutilized as Antonio Gibson was in college -- again, dating back to JUCO where the level of competition is worse than some highschools.

Of course, there are very few RBs that have ever entered the NFL that compare to Gibson from an athletic perspective.. but this is a massive red flag, imo. When a player this athletically gifted is not used it leads me to believe there is a fatal flaw in his prospects (Character issues, mental miscues, etc.)

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby TheNuts » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:14 pm

IZigUZag wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Mjvb5 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:40 pm
murphysxm wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:18 pm Every year we have a polarizing rookie. Agressive owners pounce on him, risk adverse owners draft the value guy. Gibson is that guy in 2020. With my grey hairs and the experience that comes with that, value usually wins.
Yeah this is how I feel about it basically, we've seen something similar to this and sometimes they'll hit and hit BIG
See CMC, who was too small to play rn once upon a time
Welll... CMC was a mega producer in college, a top 10 pick despite lackluster athletic measurables, and he was too small to be a workhorse when he entered the league, he's packed on a lot of muscle since his rookie year. Completely different players and prospects.

There are a lot of parallels to players if you're just looking at where they're going in rookie drafts.. but I honestly am struggling to find a single success case with a player so devoid of volume throughout their entire collegiate careers. Maybe someone can help me out here?
Cmc had one of the best 3 cone times I have ever seen at 6.57. Also a 1.55 10 yard split

AJ Dillon had a 1.53 and a 41 inch vertical at 250 pounds. One of the best size to athletic profiles of all time for a running back
12 team ppr 4 point pass td

Murray, Minshew
Singletary, Lindsay, Samuels, Ty Johnson
Chark, Arob, Woods, Diontae, Nkeal, Lazard, Conley, Cole, Dorsett
Higbee, Jarwin, Dissly
Gould, Patriots

14 team ppr superflex, .2 ppc, WR 25% ppr bonus, TE ppr bonus 75%

Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Foles, Hill
Djohns, Singletary, Fournette, Harris, Armstead, Ogunbawale, Samuels
Julio, Arob, Woods, Sims Jr, Claypool, Duvernay, Isabella, Conley, Tyrell
Waller, Hurst, Jarwin, Boyle

12 team ppr 4 point pass td, superflex, 1.5 TE ppr

Goff, Minshew, Hill, Alllen, Walker
Chubb, Taylor, Henry, Singletary, David Johnson, Damien Harris, Hyde, Boone, Blasingame
Tyreek, Boyd, Diontae, Marvin Jones, Pittman, Nkeal, Duvernay, Sims Jr, Stills
Waller, Higbee, Arnold, Olsen, Parkinson, Sample

20 team ppr 6 point pass td, .05 point per return yard

Matt Ryan
Fournette, Singletary, Harris, Cohen, Duke Johnson, Trey Edmunds
Davante Adams, Tyreek, Sutton, Boyd, Dorsett, Tyrell
Kittle, Jarwin, Oliver

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Ice » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:49 pm

OMG.
Not the 3 cone argument......dudes not a DE

Don’t care if you love him or hate him......PLEASE

Carry on!
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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Sriracha » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:54 pm

TheNuts wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:14 pm
IZigUZag wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Mjvb5 wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:40 pm
Yeah this is how I feel about it basically, we've seen something similar to this and sometimes they'll hit and hit BIG
See CMC, who was too small to play rn once upon a time
Welll... CMC was a mega producer in college, a top 10 pick despite lackluster athletic measurables, and he was too small to be a workhorse when he entered the league, he's packed on a lot of muscle since his rookie year. Completely different players and prospects.

There are a lot of parallels to players if you're just looking at where they're going in rookie drafts.. but I honestly am struggling to find a single success case with a player so devoid of volume throughout their entire collegiate careers. Maybe someone can help me out here?
Cmc had one of the best 3 cone times I have ever seen at 6.57. Also a 1.55 10 yard split

AJ Dillon had a 1.53 and a 41 inch vertical at 250 pounds. One of the best size to athletic profiles of all time for a running back
Ok, saying CMC had lackluster athletic measurables is incorrect.

Not sure where AJ Dillon comes into play here? Dillon had almost 1600 yards rushing as a true frehsman

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:08 pm

CMC should not be in a relevant conversation about Fantasy output involving Dillon or Gibson, unless it's the latter...combined vs CMC.
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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby TheNuts » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:29 pm

IZigUZag wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:54 pm
TheNuts wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:14 pm
IZigUZag wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:03 pm

Welll... CMC was a mega producer in college, a top 10 pick despite lackluster athletic measurables, and he was too small to be a workhorse when he entered the league, he's packed on a lot of muscle since his rookie year. Completely different players and prospects.

There are a lot of parallels to players if you're just looking at where they're going in rookie drafts.. but I honestly am struggling to find a single success case with a player so devoid of volume throughout their entire collegiate careers. Maybe someone can help me out here?
Cmc had one of the best 3 cone times I have ever seen at 6.57. Also a 1.55 10 yard split

AJ Dillon had a 1.53 and a 41 inch vertical at 250 pounds. One of the best size to athletic profiles of all time for a running back
Ok, saying CMC had lackluster athletic measurables is incorrect.

Not sure where AJ Dillon comes into play here? Dillon had almost 1600 yards rushing as a true frehsman
I saw some people call him slow, so i throw his name in for comparison about how off the charts his speed times are for his size

Agility times matter for running backs. Its not an end all be all, but I was also using it to show cmc had at least one elite athletic marker. If I have two players who are exactly equal except one had a half second better agility time, give me that guy. To ignore agility times as nothing is pretty ignorant
12 team ppr 4 point pass td

Murray, Minshew
Singletary, Lindsay, Samuels, Ty Johnson
Chark, Arob, Woods, Diontae, Nkeal, Lazard, Conley, Cole, Dorsett
Higbee, Jarwin, Dissly
Gould, Patriots

14 team ppr superflex, .2 ppc, WR 25% ppr bonus, TE ppr bonus 75%

Mayfield, Minshew, Trubisky, Foles, Hill
Djohns, Singletary, Fournette, Harris, Armstead, Ogunbawale, Samuels
Julio, Arob, Woods, Sims Jr, Claypool, Duvernay, Isabella, Conley, Tyrell
Waller, Hurst, Jarwin, Boyle

12 team ppr 4 point pass td, superflex, 1.5 TE ppr

Goff, Minshew, Hill, Alllen, Walker
Chubb, Taylor, Henry, Singletary, David Johnson, Damien Harris, Hyde, Boone, Blasingame
Tyreek, Boyd, Diontae, Marvin Jones, Pittman, Nkeal, Duvernay, Sims Jr, Stills
Waller, Higbee, Arnold, Olsen, Parkinson, Sample

20 team ppr 6 point pass td, .05 point per return yard

Matt Ryan
Fournette, Singletary, Harris, Cohen, Duke Johnson, Trey Edmunds
Davante Adams, Tyreek, Sutton, Boyd, Dorsett, Tyrell
Kittle, Jarwin, Oliver

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Yarnith » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:49 pm

Honestly gimme the guy with the blazing 10yd time cuz thats all i need to hit the hole.
Cavaliers 12 team standard, 1QB, 1RB, 1WR, 2WR/TE, 1flex
QB: J. Allen, S. Howell, Z.Wilson
RB: A. Kamara, J. Taylor, CEH, K. Gainwell, P. Strong
WR: A.J. Brown, A. Cooper, J. Dotson, C. Ridley, E. Moore, W. Robinson, J. Meyers, T. Marshall,
TE: G. Kittle, J. Johnson, J. Woods, H. Henry
'23 1.10, 2.10, 3.10 '24 1, 2, 3
Recent Championships '19,'21,'22

Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends- 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flex
QB: Mahomes, Purdy, Lance
RB: Pierce, Miller, K. Herbert, E. Hull
WR: Chase, Watson, Davis, JSN, Metchie, Pierce, V. Jefferson, Claypool, Thornton, Westbrook-Ikhine
TE: Pitts, Woods, Latu

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:05 pm

Yarnith wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:49 pm Honestly gimme the guy with the blazing 10yd time cuz thats all i need to hit the hole.
Not true. You need eyes to see the hole, and instinct to know where it is, before it opens, especially in zone.
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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Yarnith » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:18 pm

FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:05 pm
Yarnith wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:49 pm Honestly gimme the guy with the blazing 10yd time cuz thats all i need to hit the hole.
Not true. You need eyes to see the hole, and instinct to know where it is, before it opens, especially in zone.
Or you play with a good o line(49ers) and go where they tell you from practice. Then again we were talking about agility and speed not mental skills so I wasn't either.
Cavaliers 12 team standard, 1QB, 1RB, 1WR, 2WR/TE, 1flex
QB: J. Allen, S. Howell, Z.Wilson
RB: A. Kamara, J. Taylor, CEH, K. Gainwell, P. Strong
WR: A.J. Brown, A. Cooper, J. Dotson, C. Ridley, E. Moore, W. Robinson, J. Meyers, T. Marshall,
TE: G. Kittle, J. Johnson, J. Woods, H. Henry
'23 1.10, 2.10, 3.10 '24 1, 2, 3
Recent Championships '19,'21,'22

Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends- 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2Flex
QB: Mahomes, Purdy, Lance
RB: Pierce, Miller, K. Herbert, E. Hull
WR: Chase, Watson, Davis, JSN, Metchie, Pierce, V. Jefferson, Claypool, Thornton, Westbrook-Ikhine
TE: Pitts, Woods, Latu

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby FantasyFreak » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:34 pm

Yarnith wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:18 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:05 pm
Yarnith wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:49 pm Honestly gimme the guy with the blazing 10yd time cuz thats all i need to hit the hole.
Not true. You need eyes to see the hole, and instinct to know where it is, before it opens, especially in zone.
Or you play with a good o line(49ers) and go where they tell you from practice. Then again we were talking about agility and speed not mental skills so I wasn't either.
RB is definitely more athletically based, when dealing with two people understanding the position equally. This is a Gibson thread, we have never seen him play RB, really, despite his obvious athleticism. I'd argue that's negative for him, walking into the NFL, with no prior success level at the position, relative to his peers.
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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Krypto_King » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:32 am

Jigga94 wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:32 am I'm not a Gibson believer. I see a trend with a lot of these boom/bust guys, that the doubters will list legitimate, well thought out posts about the concerns around him... The 30 some college carries and playing against little competition. I faded Henderson for the same reason. Him running over lower level competition wasn't impressive to me. I mean Gibsons size speed at Memphis is going to look much different in the NFL... While the believers have blinders on and will try and find anything to hype him up.

Maybe I'm just having a hard time buying the hype. I'd have AT LEAST 8 WR and 7 RB and Burrow in front of him so mid to late 2nd is fine to me, but I feel like he's going sooner than that everywhere now. Such little experience and being drafted to Washington is basically a death sentence to a career in itself for me so I guess I'll miss out on the next... CPatt.
clyde edwards-hilllllarious bro

literally. literally. the only knock is, "well I haven't seen him do it 200 times in a row." That's a horrible knock. SIZE. ATHLETICISM. DRAFT CAPITAL. OPPORTUNITY. USAGE. PRODUCTION.

I provided a list of ACTUAL comps (instead of the dozens of WRs listed) and you guys pointed out the others were 1st round picks as some sort of insult? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Keep betting on those 24 year old WRs with 1 year of production and championing them as guaranteed year 1 producer locks. The arguments against are a complete joke. Please fix your process people

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Re: Antonio Gibson rocket ship

Postby Krypto_King » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:49 am

jenkins.math wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:14 pm
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:06 pm
FantasyFreak wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:00 pm

Not really. We have camp reports with way less information than normal years. He's clearly talking about actual NFL game action, and actual role within games, not off season narrative. That's clearly what he's getting at, and he's right. He's not willfully ignoring any information, because the parameters in his post were clearly set.
Of course we don’t have regular season information. But we certainly do have additional information, which he completely discounted. Camp reports can be fluff, but if you read between the lines, see some practice tape, and pay attention to things like what others players are saying, that’s definitely more than what we had May 1st. Or do you disagree and think that FFers need to wait until after the regular season starts before they can form opinions?
What information have I ignored when he hasn't played one single snap in an NFL game? I get the hype and excitement, but acting like we know that he can play and produce at the NFL level is not based on any type of factual information. Is he trending upwards in comparison to May? Absolutely. But so are plenty of other guys according to camp reports, brief highlights on twitter, etc. We see this every single year.

And this thought process applies to every single rookie at this point. Sure we like guys more than others, but the fact of the matter is that we still don't know who can really play at this level and who can't when they have never seen any live game action. Opinions on players are fine and we all have them. Painting your opinion on a player as fact before they have ever played a game is something entirely different.
"That is literally the only additional information we have in comparison to a future draft pick. We have zero idea if Gibson can play or not. We have zero idea what his role will or won't be."

You make the worst point ever and then at least acknowledge how universal it is, credit for that. I'm happy for you your league doesn't hold it's rookie draft until November of the following year.


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