PPR is a farce!!!!!!

[millworkguy]

so the perfect balance is when every player scores the same?

Lmao, no! I said nothing about everyone scoring equally, just more players hitting similar tiers in more positions. I like leagues where any of your positions can make just as much of a difference, not just your qb and rb's.
In my 16 team league (5 idp positions) start 11 idp, 8 off

Qb1 446 points
Rb1 480
Wr1 492
Te1 389
Dt1 342
De1 337
Lb1 321
Cb1 356
S1 396

Just because the top scorers score similar points doesn't mean that the positions are weighted the same. Also 492 vs 321 is hugely different, you should really boost LB scoring.

I just gave a sample, and I dont need to boost lb scoring, as we start more def then offensive. It works out quite well, last yr the highest lb was much closer . Like I wrote, I'm not looking for everything to be equal, just closer.

[millworkguy]

And this isnt about my leagues, I wrote that more players scoring closer together made for more ways to build a competitive lineup. I got asked if I wanted all players to score the same, and told that my statement was false, it was my preference.

[Lotto4Life]

"Damn we just gave up a TD!"
"Don't worry if we get a 50 yard return we get back 1/2 the points we just lost"

I was in a league in the 2004 that did this. Chiefs gave up 6.3 y/p and 27ppg, but Dante Hall had 1,718 KO return yards, making them a top 5 defense. It was glorious.

[Bronco Billy]

Fascinating topic. It’s interesting how passionate people can get about this.

I created a scoring system 20 years ago- and I’ll put a caveat on that, I was standing on the shoulders of the giants who created the Ironman IDP league and used their concepts as a template and moved forward from there.

I had 3 principles in setting up the scoring: 1) I wanted a start 7 offense (1/1/2/1 w/ 2 flex of which only 1 could be a RB or TE) to score a bit more than an 11 man D 1/2/3/2/2 with 1 flex) so that O scores minus opponents’ D scores would be approximately what was scored in a normal NFL game, 2) that there was an approximate balance in value between the O positions and also in the D positions, and 3) that players scored points for every yard gained on the field.

I used FFLM software and used 5 years of data to try to accomplish this (not as daunting as it sounds - FFLM made it relatively pretty easy).

What we ended up with was a graduated ppr where RBs got 0.5 ppr, TEs got 1.5 ppr, and all other players got 1.0 ppr. To give workhorse RBs more value and to make RB value more comparable we assigned 0.2 pts/carry. Not to get too far into the weeds on this, but QBs also score on completions/incompletions and sacks/sack yardage and we do use return yardage scored on all return plays. We also carry both kickers and punters so we can track all yards on the field. I won’t get into the D.

The guys in the league love the scoring and we’ve had little turnover through those 20 years. The great thing is that there are several ways to build a winning team. A team starting 1RB, 4 WRs and 1 TE can be on a level with a team starting 2 RBs, 2WRs and 2 TEs. The only scoring we’ve tweaked in those years was some slight changes on D scoring to help DTs and CBs with their relevance.

We haven’t used the O minus opponents D scoring because we haven’t found software that can handle it, but MFL has everything else we need to make it run.

[Jigga94]

The commish in my one league modified DST scoring to be fractional instead of by the tiers ESPN uses. For example, the 400-500 yards given up = -2. Instead you start with x points and each yard and point scored against is -.04 and -.1 or something like that (I forget the exact numbers)

It's along the same lines of .1 points per yard whereas it used to be 1 point per 10 yards. 79 yards? Don't care still 7 points. Doesn't make sense. This gives it more accuracy.

[thebeast]

The commish in my one league modified DST scoring to be fractional instead of by the tiers ESPN uses. For example, the 400-500 yards given up = -2. Instead you start with x points and each yard and point scored against is -.04 and -.1 or something like that (I forget the exact numbers)

It's along the same lines of .1 points per yard whereas it used to be 1 point per 10 yards. 79 yards? Don't care still 7 points. Doesn't make sense. This gives it more accuracy.

DST in a dynasty league is a whole different topic. I for one wouldn't play in a league that allowed dst as a roster spot as I don't think dst's have any place in a dynasty league.

On the topic of PPR, I love it. I have a league that is .05 PPR and don't like it as much as my PPR leagues. I still find that my full PPR league value RBs significantly and can't imagine what their value would be in non PPR scoring leagues.

[OhCruelestRanter]

I think there are two basic tenets of fantasy scoring systems. One is trying to make the values of players/plays in the fantasy game mimic the values of players/plays in the NFL. The other is trying to make the fantasy game interesting by creating different ways to score points.

PPR is mostly a creation with the second tenet in mind. It helped eliminate the problem where, in redraft leagues, basically everybody had to go RB-RB and it just came down to which RBs didn't get hurt that year. In dynasty, it did raise the values of WRs (which mirrors the NFL) but it also disproportionately raised the value of role-playing scat backs.

I've seen several complaints that PPR "rewards bad plays". Pac Eddy outlined this. My response here would be that nearly every common fantasy scoring system does this. A 1 yard rush is almost always a bad play, but it's still scored as positive points. If you wanted a scoring system that truly rewarded good plays, you'd have to create one with negative points for passing attempts, rushing attempts, and targets so that players who produced less than you would expect with high volumes didn't score as much.

I agree with others that mentioned that Superflex is the next PPR, and I'd go further and argue that Superflex is even more important than PPR. The superflex format hits on both of the tenets of a fantasy scoring system. It makes the game more similar to the NFL, where QBs are the most important piece, and it makes the fantasy game more fun to play by making more strategies viable.

[M-Dub]

I have always felt that PPR should be tiered not based on the position a player plays, but on how many yards were gained on the play. I doubt anyone would disagree that catching a pass is more difficult than simply taking a handoff, so I do think catches should be rewarded more than carries to some degree, but simply rewarding a point (or half a point) for ANY catch doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.

Ideally, I’d like to create a system where you earn .1 points for each yard gained on a catch, up to 10 yards for a full point. So a four-yard catch would be worth a total of .8 points (.4 for the catch and .4 for the yards gained), a nine-yard catch would be worth 1.8 points, a 25-yard catch would be worth 3.5 points, etc. You could even go negative too, where a catch for -3 yards would score as -0.6 points, or simply make any catch for 0 yards or less worth 0 PPR points.

This would eliminate annoying, fluky outcomes where a catch for -2 yards is worth more than a seven-yard run. Last time I checked, this setup wasn’t possible on MFL, but it doesn’t seem like it’d be that hard to implement. Combine it with PPFD scoring and I think you’d wind up with a much better and more accurate scoring system.

[sugbear65]

I’ve always liked PPR, I’m a fan of high scoring fantasy contests. But I also agree that straight PPR is becoming a bit outdated. My favorite point distribution, that I use in a lot of my leagues, is as follows-
1PPR, 1.5PPR TE bonus, and 1/4PPC(point per carry). With a superflex. That is the sweet spot for me, currently.

[millworkguy]

I think my frustration with non ppr came early, too many 40-53 man idp keeper leagues where rb's haven't hit the waiver wire in 10 years, and the only way to get one is too draft one, regardless of the talent on the board. I also continue to see, too many trade questions, where the OP talks about their leaguemates unwilling to move rb's, and it just reminds me of how long it took me to build those teams, and how fustrated I was while a part of them. I didn't realize how much better fantasy football was, when your league didn't hold hostage certain positions, and that occured when other positions became as valuable.

[JTLoh]

PPFD is far superior to PPR.
PPR is stupid. This is a fact not my opinion. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

[Bronco Billy]

PPFD is far superior to PPR.
PPR is stupid. This is a fact not my opinion. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Wow. I hope you don’t set up barricades and start the message board on fire.

[Lumps]

PPFD is far superior to PPR.
PPR is stupid. This is a fact not my opinion. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Wow. I hope you don’t set up barricades and start the message board on fire.

I mean I’m on the same side as you regarding PPR and PFFD but I think you seem to not understand what opinions and facts are....

[jetsfan5757]

I have always felt that PPR should be tiered not based on the position a player plays, but on how many yards were gained on the play. I doubt anyone would disagree that catching a pass is more difficult than simply taking a handoff, so I do think catches should be rewarded more than carries to some degree, but simply rewarding a point (or half a point) for ANY catch doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.

Ideally, I’d like to create a system where you earn .1 points for each yard gained on a catch, up to 10 yards for a full point. So a four-yard catch would be worth a total of .8 points (.4 for the catch and .4 for the yards gained), a nine-yard catch would be worth 1.8 points, a 25-yard catch would be worth 3.5 points, etc. You could even go negative too, where a catch for -3 yards would score as -0.6 points, or simply make any catch for 0 yards or less worth 0 PPR points.

This would eliminate annoying, fluky outcomes where a catch for -2 yards is worth more than a seven-yard run. Last time I checked, this setup wasn’t possible on MFL, but it doesn’t seem like it’d be that hard to implement. Combine it with PPFD scoring and I think you’d wind up with a much better and more accurate scoring system.

I hate PPR for the reasons mentioned like Henry vs Kamara. Not a fan of overly rewarding really short passes.

I LOVE the idea above. If that could be done I'd be open to it.

[sugbear65]

PPFD is far superior to PPR.
PPR is stupid. This is a fact not my opinion. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Wow. I hope you don’t set up barricades and start the message board on fire.

I mean I’m on the same side as you regarding PPR and PFFD but I think you seem to not understand what opinions and facts are....

Lol. To be fair, I guess he is in good company-

If the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts.
- Albert Einstein

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
– Mark Twain

There are no facts, only interpretations.
– Friedrich Nietzsche

A killer point or a clever statistic will get you over the line in a debate, even if, on later examination, it turns out to be false or a misrepresentation.
-Peter Martin