Patrick Mahomes: The Best QB in the NFL & for Dynasty

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:36 am

FantasyFreak wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:15 pm Here are the supposed details.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city ... mes-21751/

That 2027 cap hit, wow.

Spotrac has a video breakdown of it, if you want to watch it. It's on Facebook, not sure where else.
The Cap is going to grow significantly between now and '27, and they'll probably be restructuring the deal around that time anyway.

Jigga94
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 16060
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Jigga94 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:55 am

bjd5211 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:36 am
FantasyFreak wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:15 pm Here are the supposed details.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city ... mes-21751/

That 2027 cap hit, wow.

Spotrac has a video breakdown of it, if you want to watch it. It's on Facebook, not sure where else.
The Cap is going to grow significantly between now and '27, and they'll probably be restructuring the deal around that time anyway.
Exactly. No way this deal isn't restructured by then. If it's not, then I'd venture to say that the cap went up and the cap hit will be right around the 15-20% range (similar to what a 30-40M contract is now)

User avatar
Pac_Eddy
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5044
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:13 am

Mahomes can be released with zero dead cap money in 2025. This is a good deal for the Chiefs AND Mahomes.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

Bronco Billy
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3731
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 am

Wow. The Chiefs just hamstrung themselves for the foreseeable future. Mahomes is special, no doubt. But that’s significantly less cap space for the rest of the roster compared to other NFL teams.

User avatar
Pac_Eddy
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5044
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:55 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 am Wow. The Chiefs just hamstrung themselves for the foreseeable future. Mahomes is special, no doubt. But that’s significantly less cap space for the rest of the roster compared to other NFL teams.
I'd take less cap space over starting over at QB. I think all teams would take Mahomes if they were in the Chiefs' situation.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

Bronco Billy
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3731
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am

Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:55 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 am Wow. The Chiefs just hamstrung themselves for the foreseeable future. Mahomes is special, no doubt. But that’s significantly less cap space for the rest of the roster compared to other NFL teams.
I'd take less cap space over starting over at QB. I think all teams would take Mahomes if they were in the Chiefs' situation.
The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.

abloom
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 11535
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:33 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby abloom » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:28 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
I'm confused. Are you saying that the higher paid QBs hurt their team in other ways besides their cap hit?

How many Super Bowl rings do the worst QBs in the league have over the same 20 year period?
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K

Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0004&O=01

Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0009&O=01

User avatar
dynastyninja
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4170
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby dynastyninja » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am
Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:55 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 am Wow. The Chiefs just hamstrung themselves for the foreseeable future. Mahomes is special, no doubt. But that’s significantly less cap space for the rest of the roster compared to other NFL teams.
I'd take less cap space over starting over at QB. I think all teams would take Mahomes if they were in the Chiefs' situation.
The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
How is 20 years useful in any way when only 3 of the top 10 have even been in the league for half that (Ben, Rodgers, Ryan)?

Sure, paying a QB makes things more difficult for your team. I doubt anyone is disputing that, but the Chiefs had no option but to pay someone who has a legitimate chance at being the best QB ever. He's worth every penny.

What would you have done differently?

Bronco Billy
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3731
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 am

abloom wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:28 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
I'm confused. Are you saying that the higher paid QBs hurt their team in other ways besides their cap hit?

How many Super Bowl rings do the worst QBs in the league have over the same 20 year period?
That’s exactly what I am inferring. And we aren’t discussing the worst QBs in the league, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

It appears that QBs that burn up too high of a portion of their team’s cap weaken the team as a whole. Football is a team sport, and sacrificing talent level and quality depth at other positions to pay a franchise QB, by the evidence, may not be the best investment to win championships.

bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:42 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am
Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:55 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 am Wow. The Chiefs just hamstrung themselves for the foreseeable future. Mahomes is special, no doubt. But that’s significantly less cap space for the rest of the roster compared to other NFL teams.
I'd take less cap space over starting over at QB. I think all teams would take Mahomes if they were in the Chiefs' situation.
The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
Is that supposed to be a negative? Lol.


Mahomes is not just the best QB in the league, hes the best QB in league history through the first 3 years of a career. You don't let that go, and do whatever it takes to lock a QB like that up for as long as possible. The Cap is only going to grow during that contract, and other QBs are going to end up getting huge numbers too and shrinking that AAV gap. KC did the smart thing in just getting out ahead of the growing market and setting it themselves, and locking up Mahomes' services for the next 12 years.

User avatar
Pac_Eddy
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5044
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Pac_Eddy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:44 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am
Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:55 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 am Wow. The Chiefs just hamstrung themselves for the foreseeable future. Mahomes is special, no doubt. But that’s significantly less cap space for the rest of the roster compared to other NFL teams.
I'd take less cap space over starting over at QB. I think all teams would take Mahomes if they were in the Chiefs' situation.
The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
That's another case of "fun with small sample sizes". I think it's fine if you'd build a team with cheap QBs and spend that cap space elsewhere though.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

abloom
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 11535
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:33 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby abloom » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:44 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 am
abloom wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:28 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
I'm confused. Are you saying that the higher paid QBs hurt their team in other ways besides their cap hit?

How many Super Bowl rings do the worst QBs in the league have over the same 20 year period?
That’s exactly what I am inferring. And we aren’t discussing the worst QBs in the league, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

It appears that QBs that burn up too high of a portion of their team’s cap weaken the team as a whole. Football is a team sport, and sacrificing talent level and quality depth at other positions to pay a franchise QB, by the evidence, may not be the best investment to win championships.
Yes, its easier to win when you can spend more money on more players. Why do you think the Pats have so many super bowl wins? But you also need a talented QB. Mahomes was going to get paid by someone. If it wasn't the chiefs, they would have had to go back to trying to find a good QB to lead them to the superbowl. Its MUCH easier to work the salary cap to put together a competative team, than it is to draft a good QB. Just ask MOST of the NFL teams.
Team #1: 2nd place
12 team, 1 ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,2F,1D,1K

Q: Kyler, Fields, AR
R: JT, CMC, Barkley, chandler
W: Evans, Chase, Mooney, Collins, Dell, Pickens, wilson
T: Kelce, Goedert, Thomas, woods
D: cle, nyj
K: Sanders

Team #2: back to back champion
12 team, 1ppr (1.5 te), 1Q,2R,2W,1T,1SF,1F,1D,1K

Q: R Wilson, Murray, Watson, Browning, Rudolph, Zappe
R: Swift, Walker, Dobbins, gus bus
W: Puka, Metcalf, Dell, Cooper, DJM, K Allen, Nuk, Tre tucker, C Samuel,
T: Kelce, Pitts
K: Tucker
D: CLE

Team #3: back to back champion
14 team, SF, 1PPR (2PPR for TE), 1Q,2R,3W,1T,1SF,2F

Q: Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson, Heinicke, walker
R: Mostert, walker, a Jones, Wilson, Charb, Z White, McLaughlin, freeman, d Williams, Reynolds,
W: Waddle, A St Brown, K Allen, Cooper, Nuk, Juju
T: Kelce, Schultz, Thomas, Ferguson

Team #4 3rd
https://www49.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0004&O=01

Team #5 4th
https://www45.myfantasyleague.com/2023/ ... =0009&O=01

bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:47 am

Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 am
abloom wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:28 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
I'm confused. Are you saying that the higher paid QBs hurt their team in other ways besides their cap hit?

How many Super Bowl rings do the worst QBs in the league have over the same 20 year period?
That’s exactly what I am inferring. And we aren’t discussing the worst QBs in the league, so I’m not sure what your point is there.

It appears that QBs that burn up too high of a portion of their team’s cap weaken the team as a whole. Football is a team sport, and sacrificing talent level and quality depth at other positions to pay a franchise QB, by the evidence, may not be the best investment to win championships.
Having a HOF/MVP caliber QB is proven to be the only way compete for SBs on a yearly basis. There are a few outlier teams that have 1 great year and win a SB without a great QB, and then they fall back to league average, but to have real SB expectations every year for a long stretch you have to have an elite QB. KC has an elite QB, and now will for another 12 years.

Bronco Billy
Ring of Fame
Ring of Fame
Posts: 3731
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby Bronco Billy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:50 am

dynastyninja wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:38 am
Bronco Billy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:24 am
Pac_Eddy wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:55 am

I'd take less cap space over starting over at QB. I think all teams would take Mahomes if they were in the Chiefs' situation.
The currently top 10 paid QBs have a combined total of 5 Super Bowl rings between them over the past 20 years. Expensive QBs come at a much greater cost than just their cap hits.
How is 20 years useful in any way when only 3 of the top 10 have even been in the league for half that (Ben, Rodgers, Ryan)?

Sure, paying a QB makes things more difficult for your team. I doubt anyone is disputing that, but the Chiefs had no option but to pay someone who has a legitimate chance at being the best QB ever. He's worth every penny.

What would you have done differently?
IMO, and I’m certainly not a GM or Owner, if you are going to extend a very long term contract, there ought to be some give back from the player’s side in conceding what would be maximum cap space in favor of being guaranteed that kind of job security. There has to be some kind of recognition on the player’s side that they are damaging the team’s overall goal of winning a championship if the team can’t put a good enough supporting cast around them, no matter how gifted he is.

Honestly, I think that’s poor management. Every guy on that highest paid QB list has had several opportunities to win a championship, and my point is that it takes a lot more than just a stud QB to win it all. If the QB is burning up that much cap space, the team can’t compete with opponents for better all around talent and depth. If you want example #1 of support for that position, look at NE and what Brady accepted for contracts in exchange for a better team around him and more championships. And Brady is not hurting for cash - those wins and success provide some serious opportunity to earn in the marketing/spokesman arena.

bjd5211
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5615
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

Re: Mahomes new deal

Postby bjd5211 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:05 am

12 years ago the highest paid player/QB in the league was Peyton Manning at around 12M per year, it has now essentially tripled and the average starting QB salary is double that. With all the new revenue streams coming into the NFL, including the massive TV rights deals on the horizon, that trend is going to continue and QBs will be making $35-50M/Year in the not too distant future. It's far more likely that this deal is a massive value for KC in 8 years or so than it being an albatross that wrecks their Cap. Mahomes did give significant concessions on his value because he would have gotten SIGNIFICANTLY more if he had waited until the end of his rookie contract to renegotiate a new deal. This was 100% the right move by KC, and they could have given him more and it still.would have been worth it.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BlackOmega and 30 guests